89: When and How to Say No

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Hi everyone. Today I have an episode on when and how to say no. I was thinking about this this week, because I ran into an image of a tweet of someone saying something along the lines of - no, I'm not gonna go to that meeting at 8am on Sunday. It's a no. It's always a no. How dare you even asked me to do this? And I was thinking about all of the different people that I have encountered, particularly academics, who have made those requests and who did ask for my time at all hours of the day, as if there were no boundaries, and how difficult it was for me to learn to say no.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I don't think I learned how to say no to things in undergrad, and it was difficult to navigate it in grad school as well. I think in my early years of grad school, there was a lot of people pleasing. There was a lot of fear of retaliation, fear of what would happen if I wasn't a quote, unquote, good student. And a lot of feeling like I wasn't good enough, so I had to try my best and had to always be on and always be around. But since then, I've learned better. I've learned how to prioritize myself a little bit more, and I've learned to really be able to differentiate between the times that I need to say no, and the times that I can say yes to things and say yes to things enthusiastically.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I wanted to talk to you a little bit more about instances when you would want to say no, so when to know how to say no. Then how to actually do it, because it can be uncomfortable and scary- especially initially, when you're not used to it- to say no to requests. First, I want to talk a little bit about why is it that so many of us struggle with saying no. I think especially in academia, it can be really hard to say no, because so many people conflate the work that they do with their identity. And so many people work all day and all night. I believe I read somewhere that the average academic worked a 70 hour workweek. That is a lot. If a full time work week is 40 hours, 70 hours is nearly twice as long. I don't even want to do the math of how many hours a day that is, but that's essentially practically working every day. And all day every day. It's hard to say no when you feel like you have to be working all the time.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Then another reason why a lot of people don't say no, is because in saying no, you're going to face some sort of discomfort. You might face the discomfort of disappointing someone, of feeling bad about it, of feeling guilty, feeling like you're being selfish, feeling like- if I say no now, then this opportunity is never going to be presented to me again. And then going back to that people pleasing, you're afraid of what others are gonna think in reaction to you setting boundaries and limits and saying no.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Sometimes what happens is even after you say no, sometimes people will keep pressing you and pushing you. Or they might say things that will continue to make you feel bad- without even realizing it. They might say, oh, but we're gonna miss you. Oh, but only you know how to do X, Y and Z- which is not true, by the way. Oh, but you're gonna miss out. Oh, like it's too bad. Are you sure you don't want to do it? Trust me, I've had my fair share of people who after I said no, after I set a firm limit, would keep pushing and pushing and pushing. I just had to remind them- no, I'm not the only one that can do this, and you will be okay without me participating in x, y and z.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

There are many reasons why you might be afraid to say no. But if you've thought it through, and you know you definitely don't want to do this opportunity, then you should practice. Practice that skill of saying no. And when I say saying no, I'm referring to any type of opportunity. It doesn't necessarily have to mean academic requests. You know, it could be. It could be someone asks you to speak for something. Someone asks you to be a volunteer. Someone asks you to help them out with reviewing some of their writing, or someone asks you to join another meeting or join a committee. Or it could be a family member asking you to attend the millionth birthday party, or event, or get together that they're having that year.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Whatever it is, if you feel- I don't think I have the capacity to do it, or it's not something I want to do, or I'm not available. Then just go ahead and practice saying no. So if someone comes to you with a request, what should you do right away? Should you say no right away? I mean, that's completely up to you. But I actually recommend that if someone asks you for something, and you're thinking, it's probably a no, I recommend that you sit with it. I don't recommend responding right away.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When I say sit with it, perhaps sit with it for 24 hours. A lot of us have this tendency of wanting to respond to things right away, and having this sense of urgency. Oh, they messaged me, I should probably get back to them. But trust me, most things are not that dire. They're not that urgent. And if they are urgent, they're urgent for the other person. They're not urgent for you, and it was not your fault for their urgency, you know what I mean? It is okay to sit with it for 24 hours. They don't know if you've checked your email that day or at that time. And then in that time, think about it. Ask yourself a couple of questions. You can ask yourself- one of the things that I've said, and I might have said this in a previous episode too is- when someone comes at me with a request, I always ask myself, is this going to compensate me in some way?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And usually, I think about compensation in three forms. I think about compensation, like the actual financial compensation. Are they going to pay me for this opportunity? I think about compensation as perhaps adding an experience that I know that I want or need to have. Is this going to add a line to my CV, to my resume, to the experience that I value? Or sometimes there's intrinsic value. Sometimes it's- is this something that's going to nourish me? So you may take on unpaid opportunities, because you know that this is something that's going to feed you. nourish you, feed your soul, and you have the capacity to take this on at this time. That's one question I would want you to ask yourself. Is this going to compensate me in some way?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Another question I want to ask you is- going back to the nourishment question- is this going to nourish me, or is this going to drain me? Am I gonna be happy to do this, or am I going to be feeling resentful to do this later on? I'll give you one example of something that happened to me in grad school that left me resentful. I had a colleague who was an international student, who was struggling with the language barrier. Not only was there a language barrier, but also our program was very heavy on critical theory and the language was really, really dense- even hard for me to understand. Understandably, this person needed help - help with their writing, help with the comprehension, help with grammar, all aspects of courses, of understanding material, and then writing, taking notes, writing papers. They needed a lot of support.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So they asked me for help. They asked if I could help with reviewing their papers before they submitted them. And of course, it was early on in grad school. I did not like to say no to anything. I didn't want to seem like a bad person. I didn't want to seem like an unsupportive colleague. So I said yes without hesitation. But then over time, as the requests kept coming and kept coming at odd hours, and there was a sense of urgency on their part of this is due at this time. And I was finding myself in the middle of the night, instead of working on my stuff, working on their stuff. I started to build resentment. Then only to find out later on that this person was financially stable enough to hire a personal editor, but then never offered to compensate me for my time. So I spent hours and hours helping them and didn't gain much out of it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That was an example of a time that I probably should have set a boundary. Maybe I could have helped them once, or maybe I could have helped them for a few pages and then said, if you need extra support, I recommend reaching out to this editor, or that editor. Here are some other options. But I didn't do that, and it left me feeling just drained and resentful. So ask yourself that. Is this gonna drain you? Is this gonna make you feel resentful? And if it is, then that's probably a no.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

The other thing I want you to think about is- sometimes when we look at whether or not we can say yes or no to something, we look at our calendars and we think about our availability. And I want you to think about your availability outside of just am I actually free at this time. But thinking about how much capacity do you have to take on. For instance, after a couple of hours of me being on Zoom- here's an example. I know after a couple of hours on Zoom, in any given day, I will get a migraine. It is what it is. I learned the hard way from working full time and having some days where I had eight or nine meetings per day, and then spending the rest of the day with a migraine that wouldn't go away. Sometimes even going into the next day. Sometimes even having to take a day off. It was just really bad.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Now that I know that that's a thing, I know that I shouldn't schedule too many meetings per day. If someone comes at me with an opportunity- even if it's something that I'm really excited about. If I've reached my cap of the number of meetings I can have that day, I will have to say no, or schedule it for a different day. That's one thing that I want you to think about for yourself. What is your capacity on any given day? Sometimes, maybe you have nothing that week, but it's because it's your vacation week. Or maybe you have nothing that day, but it's your day that you're supposed to take off. Or maybe you're free at that time, but it's because that's your evenings, and you know that you don't work in the evenings. Or maybe you're free at that time, because it's on a weekend and you know you don't work weekends.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So figure out your capacity and your boundaries around your work. That way you can say yes or no. When working full time for the university at my last job, one thing that I was really firm about was not committing to doing anything after hours. After five o'clock, I wasn't doing anything. Even if it was a really great opportunity, it was firm for me, because it was my time with my kids. It was my time with my family. It was my time to take care of myself, to rest, to have time to do whatever I needed to do to be okay to be able to work the next day. So I want you to kind of sit with that and ask yourself when you look at your calendar- not just am I free, but do I have the capacity? Do I have the energy level? Am I going to be feeling it and being able to do it whenever the opportunity is scheduled for?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Now let's say you've given yourself 24 hours. Oh, the other thing I wanted to say is- also when you give yourself time, the other thing that you can do as a strategy is to ask your support group, ask your community, ask a friend or group of friends for their input. If you're struggling, because there's a part of you that's like, this is a good opportunity. But I also kind of don't want to do it. I'm going back and forth and back and forth. It might be good to consult with someone else. That someone else could be your best friend, it could be your therapist, it could be your mom. It could be someone that knows you very well. It could be a group of friends, again, your support group, whatever it is. Ask them- share the information, ask for their input. Sometimes getting someone else's input helps you with making that decision.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When you've come to the conclusion that you're going to say no, and you're starting to feel bad, there's a part of you that is not looking forward to sitting with that discomfort. I want to remind you that when you respond to please be firm and clear in your response. I have been guilty of doing this, where sometimes I say oh, I'm sorry. I'm not available at that time. When really, I'm trying to say no. And they're like, oh, if you're not available at that time, how about this other time? Or oh, I'm sorry, I - I'm trying to think about another way that sometimes people say no that sounds like a maybe. I need some time to think about it. And they're like, okay great, just let me know. Really, when I say I need time, there's a part of me wanting to say no.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You want to be as firm as possible, and I want to give you some examples of how to be firm. One very easy, clear example that a lot of people are afraid to use- including myself, because it can feel too firm and too almost blunt- is simply saying no. Someone asks you for something. No. No, thank you. I very rarely do that. I just - again, the people pleaser in me. I've been working on this for years, and I still struggle to just say no. But you have every right to say no. You don't ever have to explain your circumstances. You don't ever have to explain your reasons why you're saying no. Although again, I have that tendency of wanting to over explain. And over time, I've learned that it's okay to just say no.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Here's an example, a real example, that I use oftentimes when someone comes at me with a request and I don't really want to do it. I first thank them or appreciate them. I say, thank you so much for thinking of me, or I appreciate you thinking of me- because it's true. It's nice that they went out of their way to come and reach out. Then I go with- unfortunately, I do not have the capacity to take this on. This is just saying, it's no. I can't do it. You can say that. You can say unfortunately, I can't do it. Or unfortunately, I can't make it. But I like to say- I don't have the capacity to take this on, because that is a fact. That is true. And then I say- but I appreciate it, or but I wish you the best with the event.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Or if you know of other people who would be interested or who have said, hey, Yvette, if you know of anything, keep me posted. Then I'll refer them to someone else. This has happened actually, during times that I have been overextended and have not been able to take on new coaching or editing clients. Folks have reached out to me and I say oh, unfortunately, I'm not able. I don't have the time or I'm not able to take any new clients on at this time. But I do know this other person who does just as great work. You might want to reach out to them. Actually, I love doing that. I am a fan of collaboration and helping each other out. I'm not a very competitive person. So if I can't help someone out, I'm happy for them to go to someone else who can help them. That's another strategy that I use is referring them to someone else who might be able to do it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Another way that I've said no is just saying- unfortunately, I'm not available. Or you don't have to say unfortunately. You can say- thanks for thinking of me. I'm not available, but I appreciate you asking me. That's it. That's it. Or - this is another thing that comes up a lot. Sometimes some of us, especially those of us that are POC, that are doing work that others might define as DEI work, as diversity, equity, inclusion type work. They're coming at you asking for free opportunities. Can you do this free workshop? Can you do this free speaking opportunity? Can you come and do a free Q&A or whatnot?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I especially now can't afford to take on unpaid opportunities, because I'm no longer getting employed by the university. Some folks - because they're being employed by the university- are willing to take on unpaid speaking opportunities through the same university. Because again, they're saying, well, I'm an employee of the university, so I'm going to continue serving the university in this way. But if you're getting a request, and you know that you're saying no because you want to make sure that you get paid for this request. If it's not going to nourish you, if it's not adding something to your repertoire, to your experience, then it's okay to say- I'm not available to take on unpaid opportunities. Do you have a budget in mind for this?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It can be awkward. It can be uncomfortable. Some folks might not have the budget. And you could say- well, if you're interested, I would be more than happy to kind of work with multiple different groups, if you wanted to reach out to other departments who might be able to co-sponsor this event or this opportunity. That's another strategy that you could use to make sure that you get paid. If really, that's the only big barrier between you doing this thing- making sure you get paid- it doesn't hurt to ask. Now, you might say do you have a budget for this? They might say no. And in that case, you say- well, I appreciate you thinking of me. Thank you so much. I hope it works out. That's it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Or you could simply say- for any request that you're thinking of saying no- no, I cannot do that. No, unfortunately, I can't do that. And that's it. I want you to just keep practicing it. It's going to feel weird. I know that I've many times felt bad saying no. I've felt like maybe I'm being rude, or mean, or people are gonna stop liking me and reaching out to me for saying no. In some cases I do explain why I say no. But when I do, it's political. It's because I want to kind of make certain things about me and my identity visible. So if it's a request that's at 7pm, and that's my family time, I say, unfortunately, I'm not available at that time. I don't have childcare at that time. But if it's moved to another time, don't hesitate to reach out. That's it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

What else do I want to say about saying no? When to say no is- I think most of the time, we know when we want to say no. We just need to sit and kind of make a very firm decision. Because if you don't make a firm decision about the yes or no, and you're thinking maybe in your head, then the maybe in your head is going to turn into maybe in writing or maybe in person. And that's the thing- if someone asks you in person, it can be really awkward or uncomfortable to say no. That might be a part of it. It's like, I kind of don't want to do this, but they're asking me right then and there. If that happens, make sure that you say, oh, that's - whatever your reaction about the thing is. Oh, that's an interesting request, or oh, I'm curious to hear more about it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Then after that, you ask them if you can have some time. Like- oh, you know, I need to review my availability. I'm happy to get back to you. Just give me a day or two, and I'll let you know. And that's it. Again, you don't have to answer people right away, even if they're asking you in person, on Zoom, whatever- even if they're asking you live. You are allowed to give yourself time to think about it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think that is all I want to say about when and how to say no to any types of requests. I hope that you found this useful. If you have other strategies for how to say no, do share with us. I'm happy to do an update on this episode later on. Have a good rest of the day, everyone.