88: Talking About Grad School With First-Gen Parents with Bryant Pahl

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome, everyone. I have a really special guest with us today who's going to be discussing the topic of talking about graduate school with first gen parents. Our guest today is Bryant Pahl. I'm gonna go ahead and get started by introducing him with his bio.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Bryant Pahl is a first generation PhD student at UC Irvine, where he is studying Earth System Science. Going into his second year, his research focuses on paleoclimate. He works under Dr. Kathleen Johnson's lab, where they specialize in using speleothems or cave staligmites as an analogue to reconstruct the climate in the past. Bryant graduated from UC Santa Barbara with a degree in Earth System Science, and is a McNair alum- that's how we know each other. He plans to complete his PhD and pursue a career in academia, where he hopes to mentor students from all backgrounds who are interested in learning more about the Earth system. Welcome, Bryant.

Bryant Pahl

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. That was basically a really good summary. I mean, I wrote it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm like, I hope I actually pronounced some words correctly.

Bryant Pahl

Oh, yeah. That was perfect. I think when it comes to saying that- speleothem or speleotem. It's kind of interchangeable, so it doesn't really matter.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Nice. Today, we have you here- not talking about Earth System Science- but talking about kind of navigating these discussions about grad school with first gen parents. Just to give us a little bit more context, I would love for you to share with the listeners a little bit more about yourself, your background, and also what led you to pursue grad school.

Bryant Pahl

Right. So I was born and raised in Long Beach, California, and I lived there until about the age of 12. My mom, she worked- my mom's a Filipina immigrant who got a job, pretty luckily, through a friend at this bank. She was pretty good at math coming out of high school, and so she managed to have a friend when she immigrated here with my father through a bank, I guess. She just did simple math calculations for them. It was kind of like a small accounting job. But then when her job was automated, they let her go. And that was kind of our main form of income, because my dad was retired. After that, my mom was looking for caretaking jobs, because she didn't really have any other skills. She could barely speak English. In Long Beach, it was kind of hard for her because- I mean, just in general, the barriers for someone who doesn't really know English, it's kind of hard to pick those kind of jobs up.

Bryant Pahl

So we ended up finding housing in Joshua Tree, California, which is, I think where a lot of people know to be a really good tourist area, very rural. But for us, it was more of just a chance to move out and find cheaper rent, because housing there is- the cost of living is really, really low. She was able to find a caretaking job out there, and then we were able to make ends meet. But we still kind of struggled with the caretaking jobs, because it was pretty much on and off. Certain people needed her and some people didn't. So we basically moved a lot too throughout Joshua Tree, just because - I don't know. It was pretty rough.

Bryant Pahl

But during that time living there and transitioning from living in Long Beach to Joshua Tree, I kind of got immersed in the nature that was surrounding the environment. At first I was really inspired by the night sky there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love when you share this. I'm sorry, I just have to put it out there. I know you and I remember you telling me about this. I'll just let you keep going. But I love your inspiration for your research and your work.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah. Honestly, this is one of the greatest barriers for entry though when you think about it- when people go into geosciences, or even the sciences in general. When you live in someplace like Long Beach, you don't get that immersiveness and I think about how fortunate I was to be able to get the opportunity. When I moved to Joshua Tree, that really inspired me, and I started to get my academics together. I really wanted to pursue a career in astrophysics at first. Then eventually, through hard work and through a program called AVID- which is the Advancement Via Individual Determination program- at my high school, they showed me schools and then I put in a lot of work to get admitted to UC Santa Barbara for physics. And then eventually, I took my first astronomy course. I was like, oh, this is it. I get to learn what I've been wanting to learn. That completely changed my mind about what I wanted to pursue, which is weird.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I took an astronomy course in undergrad and thought it was gonna be so cool. But it was not.

Bryant Pahl

No, no. It's not that- it's totally not that it wasn't cool. I loved the class. I absolutely loved the course, the subject and everything. But the professor at the time was like, hey. There's this chapter that we are now going to focus on, and it's on the earth. And I was like, come on. This is an astronomy class. Why are we- what's the point? But then I read into it- because I read every chapter at that point. So I was like, I'm going to read the chapter. I read it, and I realized what he was saying about it being one of the greatest generational issues that we'd face was true. I realized then, through additional article reading that he had provided, that global warming was- or at least, sorry, not just global warming. But climate change in general is a great problem that we have to face. That really changed my mind about what I wanted to pursue.

Bryant Pahl

I guess that's the kind of long story short. There was a lot of hard decisions I had to make to about switching from physics- or astronomy to earth science. But it became kind of natural, because I was already- you know, I like going out into nature. I like hiking and stuff, so maybe investing in a career in earth science wouldn't be too challenging. But my decision to really get into that really solidified when I started doing tree planting services. Then learning about -through that, getting an internship at a nonprofit, and doing outreach and teaching kids about tree rings. Then learning about how the information from tree rings can tell us about the past.

Bryant Pahl

From that, I was like, well, this is interesting. I want to learn more about how this information can be valuable and how we can apply that in the future. That's how I started taking more courses. I eventually took an upper division course with Dr. David Lee, who is a great professor at UCSB, who taught me all I know basically about paleoclimate up until now, when I have a new advisor, Kathleen Johnson, who's also amazing. But yeah, that's kind of what spearheaded me into this field of earth science and paleoclimate in general. That's my background.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I want to go straight into it. I'm very curious, actually, now that you've described how you went from astrophysics to then studying a chapter or a section on the earth and then transitioning to Earth Science. Do you talk to your parents about what you study? What do they think about what you study? What do they think you study?

Bryant Pahl

It's so funny. This whole time- I remember, in high school, my parents had always been curious about what I was doing. So throughout all of my time in school, just in general, my parents didn't really have that huge expectation for me and my brothers. They knew one thing for sure, though, from other Filipino family members and family friends, that nursing was a really big way to make money, right? They knew that if we got a high school degree, we could make our way into a nursing program. But we didn't have to be the best of the best. They didn't really expect us to really- they basically didn't set the bar very high.

Bryant Pahl

But for me, I had been inspired by science, and I wanted to go this completely different route. Explaining that to my parents early on was really hard, because they didn't know anything about what that meant. I would tell them stuff about astronomy and be like, oh, yeah. When you look at the stars, you're looking back in time. Then they'd be like, what? Bcause they don't know. I mean, that's not their fault or anything. But for me, trying to explain that to my parents was always very challenging.

Bryant Pahl

I actually remember some time in high school, I got into an argument with my parents about the financials of my career, because I told them I want to go into undergrad for science, and I eventually potentially want to go to grad school, and all that stuff. And I don't really mind how much money I make. I know that I'll make ends meet at the end of the day, but I'll be committed to learning something that I'm really passionate about. That's all that matters to me. But for them, they took that in a very negative way

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

Because for them, money meant everything. And it makes sense, because for my parents, we'd struggled basically all my life. For them to hear that their son is not really interested in making a lot of money, it was kind of like, backwards thinking.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's interesting, because we were supposed to talk about first gen parents. But you're talking about not just being a first gen student in college, but being first gen in the US.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I feel like for a lot of us who have immigrant parents, that's kind of a big deal. You're like, they moved their entire lives over to a completely foreign country for the pursuit of a better life for their children.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I can imagine why or how that conflict came about, of like- wait, how can you not care, you know?

Bryant Pahl

Yeah. It was definitely a really hard conversation. I remember crying at the end of it, and telling them- you know, I really care about this. I don't understand why you guys don't understand. But I think later on, I realized, money is really important for them. That was something that I had to come to terms with, and really explain that I would be okay through this career. Even though I wasn't pursuing something safe like nursing, that I'd still be okay. Because I think they were really banking on potentially the idea that I would end up becoming a nurse or something or something in the medical field.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Nurse, doctor, lawyer.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, something like that. Which is funny, because now that I'm pursuing a PhD, I remember telling my mom- yeah, I'm gonna be a doctor now. She's always like, what? It's like a different sense, you know?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But do you tell her - not that kind of doctor?

Bryant Pahl

Yeah. I tell her not that kind of doctor.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Okay.

Bryant Pahl

I just tell her just kind of to be funny, I guess.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

But nowadays, I come home and my mom actually still always asks me the same question. Like, wait, what exactly are you doing? And I explain it to her. Then she'll be like okay. And then my dad, he's getting really old. It's kind of getting harder for him to remember stuff, too. So I'll go home, and I'll explain what I'm doing as well. But he also, he'll be happy with what I'm doing- which is really awesome, to know that my parents still support me in that way.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I can imagine there's also kind of- because I am familiar with your background and kind of your parents- there's a generational difference between your dad and your mom. But also, there's a difference between culturally, I would imagine. And also, there's a language barrier between your mom and you. Does she speak Tagalog?

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, she speaks Tagalog. So trying to explain to her something like paleoclimate or speleothems, it's like-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I struggle to understand, and I have known English most of my life.

Bryant Pahl

I always try to just bring up- when I talk to my parents, I always just try to bring up climate change. It's pretty- I think that's something that she sees on the news all the time. So that is a way to communicate what I'm doing for her. And the same with my dad. My dad is kind of the same way. He watches a lot of news as well. So I always try to talk about- yeah, my work is contributing to this stuff and we're trying to understand it a lot better. And they're like, okay, that's really awesome. They're like, as long as you're okay financially, and you're doing what you want to do, that's fine. I think that's something that I'd always been appreciative of after getting into undergrad, was after that really hard discussion, and that really hard conversation, they'd always been like, if you want to do what you want to do, we support you. Even though they haven't explicitly said it, they support me still and I really appreciate that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

What I'm hearing from you, too, is like- so you've talked to them about it, about going to grad school, about what you're studying. But it's not like you just have one conversation and you're done. It's an ongoing kind of conversation, discussion.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I'm curious, as you keep having conversations- because it is true for me too, having an immigrant mom, having a language barrier. She doesn't understand English very well. I have struggled in having those conversations. I struggled more back when I was in grad school. I think a little less now, because hse understands the the benefits that I gained from it. But I'm wondering, what are some of the struggles with having these conversations? And what are some of the things that kind of have worked in having conversations? Like you saying, by providing them with an explanation about climate change, it's just something that they can understand. It affects their everyday life too. That has been helpful.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So what are some of the helpful things, and what are some of the things where it's kind of an area that makes it more of a struggle to have conversations with them about it?

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, I definitely think- going back to that language barrier, that's a huge thing. Because my parents- my mom, in particular, she can speak English. But she learned it through watching dramas, basically. But I think still being able to communicate about the general sense of my work has still been nice. Although I think it kind of weaves in and out, because my mom still talks to her family from the Philippines. So when she's trying to talk to them about what I'm doing, she struggles. And I understand that, because it's not easy to know what I'm doing. Maybe I'm not the best communicator of what I'm doing either.

Bryant Pahl

But she does her best, and I really appreciate that. Because I think she does take things out of what we talk about, at the end of the day. When I tell her about- I'm getting my doctoral degree, she remembers that, and she's able to say that to her friends aand her family. But, yeah, I think the biggest thing is the language barrier. But also, it's still nice to have these conversations because she at least remembers. I really appreciate that she tries. My dad does, too. But he doesn't really- my dad's really old, so h's kind of like, do what you want, Bryant. I'm like, okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think that some of us sometimes stray away from having these conversations precisely because of that, because it's hard to have those conversations. Sometimes information is lost in translation. And a lot of times, our parents- if they're immigrant parents- like you said earlier, they care about you making a lot of money. But really, they care about you being okay,

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You being financially stable, and possibly even being okay enough to take care of them.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, actually, that was something I wanted to mention, too. When when I got the position as a graduate researcher- or when I got admitted, I guess, just in general- my parents were wondering how much money I'd make, because they wanted to see if I could help support them financially. And, you know, I am very fortunate to say that the income that I'm making is more than my parents, which is insane to me. To be able to financially support them every month is such a blessing. Yeah, I don't know. It's weird to put things into perspective now, because I sit here as a first gen, coming from a low income family. And I have a bunch of these friends who are making like 80k, 100k. And I'm over here making way less than that.

Bryant Pahl

Grad student budget, yeah.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, grad student budget.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's still kind of on the poverty line, especially for California.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah. But it's way more than what my parents have made or are making right now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

That just blows my mind. And-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That perspective too, I think is so valuable- thinking about it through their lens.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Of like, how did they make it work with so much less?

Bryant Pahl

That's what I'm saying.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I don't know how my mom did it.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, I mean, I'm just really grateful to have this opportunity, you know? And this is kind of what I meant maybe in high school, that I'd be able to get by- because I know how we were able to get by with so little. I don't know, I'm just really thankful that I'm even here.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

If other folks are in a kind of a similar situation, where they're wanting to have more conversations with their parents about going to graduate school- maybe they haven't even started graduate school, but they're thinking about it. I know when I was in undergrad and I was thinking about grad school, I didn't even want to tell my mom until after I got in. And I was like- I don't even want to tell her until I've already SIR-d and said yes, because I don't want her to try to change my mind. Because her impression of it was- oh my gosh, more school? Why can't you be done and get a job and get paid good money?

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think her dream was for me to just right away, graduate, become a lawyer or a doctor. She was just like mija, you already know English. Why are you studying English? Your English is so good. Also, for her it was like- but you're so smart. You could have been a medical doctor. You're so smart, you could have been a lawyer. She had no context of what a PhD was until after I was done.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So the whole time in grad school, it was always like- you're still in school? Still in school? When are you gonna be done? You're still writing that thesis? Like why? It's taking too long. You're just writing- like it's no big deal.

Bryant Pahl

Oh, yeah. No, that's definitely the same thing I hear from my mom too. Like, oh, how many more years?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Everytime you talk to them, it's like, time is ticking. They're not getting any younger.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, that's definitely really relatable. I don't know. It's an ongoing thing, but you kind of have to explain. Honestly, I have gotten to the point where I'm like, mom, it's kind of like a job at this point. I would see it as a job.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's what I would - I would try to contextualize and explain it to my mom in that way. I was like, I'm not the same kind of student as an undergraduate. I am a professional. I am gaining career skills, all of that. I'm teaching.

Bryant Pahl

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm making a living. All of this is preparing me to become a professor or researcher, or a staff member at a university. When I would tell her that all of this is for something, and it's going to ensure- or I will ensure, I don't think that the PhD alone will ensure. But I was like, I will do what I have to do to make sure I get a good job afterwards with this training. Then she saw that I got a good job. And it's kind of like other conversations I'm having with her now, of like wait, but you had a good job. Why would you leave your good job?

Bryant Pahl

I see.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But I guess, I'm just- for the listeners, I think this is something that, it's just a big issue of parents wanting you to help out. There's this expectation, and there's this sacrifice that needs to be made. When you are first gen, a lot of times you have to provide financially in ways that other people in grad school- I don't know what it's like for you among your cohort mates. But I had cohort mates in my graduate program who were second, third or multiple generations out of their family members having PhDs, or doctorates - other professional doctorates. And they had financial support from their parents.

Bryant Pahl

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

They didn't have to worry about having to explain and contextualize.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, that's definitely the case. I think several people in my department have parents who are also professors. And it's always interesting to see that difference, right? For them, it's like, oh, yeah, they understand. They know. But for me, it takes that extra step, those extra steps to explain what's going on in my career, and what's going on at the end of all this. What are we pursuing, and where is that leading to? I think explaining to my mom that I want to be professor, she can understand that. She's like, oh, you want to be a teacher, basically. And I'm like, yeah. I want to teach students and I also want to do research on the side. The research aspect, she's still kind of like, okay. But then the teaching she at least understand. Those are conversations that I think as a first gen student, it kind of takes time to really, fully explain it. Because I feel like even now, I haven't even had enough conversations with my mom for her tofully understand.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I think that's one of the big takeaways about it, is that you're not gonna get there in one or even a couple of conversations. It will take time. But as someone who's on the other end of things, I think initially, my mom hesitated with learning about graduate school. She was just like, why? You're not making a lot of money. You could get a good job right out of it. But now that I'm done, she brags about me all the time. She's like, oh, look at mija. She has a PhD. Mija tiene un doctorado. Anytime anyone comes in- look. And I bet she would hang my diploma if she could. It's really cute that she's very proud of what I've achieved.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But it took time. It took her to actually see me graduate and get a job and be able to provide for my family and for myself and help others, for her to kind of realize they was actually worthwhile. And I think that that may be true for other people. Some parents might be supportive. Some parents might not be supportive, and they might just need to see it to believe it.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But I think that's kind of the big thing. You have to keep having multiple conversations, and the more you can concretize things, the more examples you can give them, the more you can relate it to what they already know, I think that the better off the conversations have gone- at least for me.

Bryant Pahl

I think that's definitely a really great takeaway, right? This conversation is continuous almost. It's not something that you can have one conversation with your parents, and be done. Especially having this perspective- they don't know. And it's kind of our job to explain. At the end of day, if you're explaining the thing that you love to do, if your parents really, truly support you, then they might hesitate at first. But you just got to show them over time, with mini accomplishments and kind of mentioning things. I find that really helpful too. Like mentioning that I won an award or something. My mom's like, oh, that's good. I think those things kind of build up too. That's what makes the conversation even more continuous, just a run on thing until you reach your goal, almost.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think from my experience with my mom, because my mom is a single mom- immigrant mom from Mexico, struggles with speaking English. The other thing that I think helped her was knowing that she didn't have to worry about me. So even though I was in grad school, I wasn't making a lot of money. I was working long hours. For a period of time, it was hard for me to even make time for friends and family, especially during my exam period, or as I was finishing up. I would try to communicate as much as possible. I would say- okay, mom, I've got this big thing coming up, and I'm going to be really busy. But I'll be done by x date. So I would always communicate with her, like by Christmas, I'm gonna take a break. I'm going to come home, and I'm going to have time for this and this and this. That way, kind of like communicating and setting boundaries with family- especially because some folks, I know some folks who are going to grad school and still living with their parents. And then it's even harder to-

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, that can be really messy, I think, especially from a first generation household.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

I don't know. It can be really difficult in those times. And I wanted to mention too, that visiting regularly is also really important. I think, making sure that your parents know that what you're doing- I guess going home and updating them is something really important. Because from my perspective, I was at UCSB for four years. That was a three and a half hour drive from UCSB to Joshua Tree. So I didn't really get to visit them at all in undergrad. There were some times where I wouldn't see them summer to summer. And that was really hard, because I'd only visit for a few days. But now, living in Irvine, I'm only an hour and a half away. It's nice to be able to go home and actually see them, and tell them how I'm doing. And just be present too, because like I said, my dad is getting really old. So for me, it's important for me to be there and be home.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You have to be present conversations too.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think that's important, because that brings us to thinking about how it's important to have conversations with our parents, especially being first gen students. It's also important to be there and to not solely prioritize graduate school, because it's really easy as an academic to make that all of your life.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And to not have a life or identity outside of that. For some of us, especially depending on the culture that you come from, family is really important. So to be able to physically be there will allow you to engage in more conversations- because you can't just force them. You can't just be like, okay, Mom, I'm gonna call you Sunday at 2 so we can talk about grad school. You gotta kind of just- some of these conversations just come up. What's the word for it?

Bryant Pahl

I mean, they just naturally happen sometimes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

When you go home, and they'll just ask you- oh, so what are you doing? How's work going, or something.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. How's school? How's work?

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, how's school? I think that's the most common question I get when I go home. How's school? And I'm like, it's not really school.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

I try to explain, like yeah, I'm working right now. I'm doing stuff in the lab. And they're like, oh, cool. But then that's it. They don't try to understand more. But that's okay. I think even just going home and updating them on what I'm up to more commonly is nice- than not going home, like I did in undergrad.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And it sounds like you can see where they're coming from. You see things from their perspective, and that allows you to be really flexible with taking in their responses to what you share. Whether they understand it completely or not-

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You're just like, it's okay. It's okay where they're at, what they understand. There's time, I'm present. I'm there.

Bryant Pahl

Exactly, yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think that's another takeaway. If someone's interested in going to grad school, they're really nervous about telling their parents. They don't know how supportive they might be. Just thinking about it as like, I'm gonna have time to have these conversations. I'm going to make it a point to try to be there. If you can't physically be there, having more phone calls. I remember when I was away studying in Chiapas for three months, my mom was really scared, didn't know what I was doing, thought I was crazy. I had gone crazy. And I called her every day. I called her every day and told her about what I was doing, and the research I was doing. She didn't fully understand. But at least for her, it was like, okay, my daughter's okay. She's learning stuff. Nothing's happening to her. So just making it a point of being there, having multiple conversations- not just one.

Bryant Pahl

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Being open minded, trying to see things from their perspective. I think all of that is going to be helpful. And eventually, you'll get to a point where- they might never fully understand what you're doing. But there's that mutual support.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, and I think emphasizing that message that you are okay- because I think that was- like I said earlier- my parents' biggest concern. Was I going to be okay pursuing-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You're okay now, and you're going to be okay later.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah, exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Bryant Pahl

My mom hasn't seen my house. But my brother recently came by, and then my brother told my mom what my house was like. And she's like, oh, you have a nice house. She's really happy about that. It's those little things, showing that you'll be okay, even in graduate school. I know that maybe not be the case for most, a lot of people who are in graduate school right now. I think STEM is fundamentally different than other fields when it comes to funding. We definitely get a lot more support. But in those scenarios, it's definitely a conversation that you still need to have with your parents about what you're doing is something you really care about. And something that you're willing to put up with, I guess, if you are struggling as a grad student. Because I know that there are students out there that don't get as much funding. But I think in general, when we put graduate school into context with the rest of the work field, it's definitely not as much money. But yeah, it's-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But it's temporary.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know for X amount of years, you're not going to be making a lot. But then after that- it's not guaranteed, but if you work on it

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Eventually you can- especially if you're flexible with the types of jobs that you're willing to take on.

Bryant Pahl

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You can definitely make a lot more than in graduate school.

Bryant Pahl

Right, right. It's definitely-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I expect that.

Bryant Pahl

It's an investment, right? And that's something that we all commit ourselves to. It's something that basically- I read this somewhere. But it was about something like going into graduate school means doing something people aren't willing to do. And you do it because you actually genuinely love it. I read that somewhere. I don't know where that's from. But yeah, that's what it means for all of us who are first gen and pursuing graduate school for the first time in our families' history. It's something that we want to do because we really want to. Doing that is an amazing thing in and of itself.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And it's interesting, because as first gen students with immigrant parents, they were trailblazers in their own way. They're navigating new territories. In some ways, we're doing that too for our generation. I think this is a great way to kind of wrap up the conversation. I wanted to ask you if there's anything else you wanted to share on the topic? If not, then I think our listeners might want to reach out to you. Some of them might have resonated with what you said, or with your research interests. If they want to be in touch, what's a good way for them to be in touch with you?

Bryant Pahl

I guess maybe one last thing I'd recommend is, if you do have a good relationship with the parents, don't forget to acknowledge them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh I love that, yeah.

Bryant Pahl

Because I remember how important it was for them when I made that publication in the McNair journal, to leave that acknowledgement for them. Even if they don't read the research part-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

They're gonna read the acknowledgement. For sure.

Bryant Pahl

They're gonna read the acknowledgment. And that really meant a lot to my parents. I think that's really important, too. Yeah. Otherwise, I can be found at UC Irvine. Do I just plug my email?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Whatever you want to say, because some folks have an academic Twitter.

Bryant Pahl

Oh okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Or a public IG, or maybe if there's a - I don't know- future podcast.

Bryant Pahl

Oh, yes. Okay, yeah. I'll first plug my academic Twitter, which is my name BryantPahl underscore, underscore.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And that's Bryant with a y.

Bryant Pahl

@BryantPahl__. And then yes, also keep a lookout for a potential or upcoming podcast on conversations that you can have, or that we have with our parents, or that we want to have with our parents, called Hey Parents. It's gonna be hosted by me and my partner, Alina Tu. It's coming up. I'll definitely be advertising it a lot on my academic Twitter, so if you follow me on that. Just feel free to reach out too if you want to DM me or anything.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm so glad that you mentioned it. I was like- hint hint. Say something, put it out there. Because once it's out there, you gotta do it.

Bryant Pahl

I know. And it was funny, because I'm like, what do I- I've never really been on any of these kind of talk shows.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Well get used to it.

Bryant Pahl

I was like, oh okay, I'll link some. Yeah, that was good.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Well thank you. Thank you, Bryant, for joining us. And thank you all. We'll talk to you all later.