80: Being a Black Grad School Mom and Balancing Family with Elissa Frazier

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome everyone to another episode of Grad School Femtoring. I'm really excited to have another guest speaker. Our guest speaker for today is Elissa. I want to say Alyssa- but Elissa Frazier. I'm gonna go ahead and read her bio. Today, she's going to be talking to us about being a Black grad school mom and balancing family.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Elissa Frazier is a fifth year EdD candidate researching culturally responsive tech integration in urban schools. She's the co- founder of Navcap. It's Navcap right?

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Awesome. A professional learning community, grad school coaching center, and resource hub for Black and Latinx grad students. She's also the host of the Grad School Soul Collective podcast. So we're doing a little bit of a collaboration. Welcome to the podcast, Elissa.

Elissa Frazier

Thank you. Thank you so much Dra. Yvette. I appreciate you, and let's do it. Let's get into it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, sounds good. The first question I have for you is what I ask everybody, which is if you can just tell us a little bit more about yourself, your background. I'm even going to add your kids, because you're going to talk about being a mom. It excites me, because I'm a mom of two. Also, just kind of what led you to your current graduate program?

Elissa Frazier

Yeah. My background is in K 12 everything- a bunch of different things, teacher, interventionist, coach, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to go into a program - a doctoral program- because I was kind of on the fence of do I go into administration? Or do I support teachers and teach teachers in a different capacity? Because they're just different. What I decided was that I wanted to- my Machiavellian. I was like, oh, I'm going to teach the young white teachers before they get here, or before they get out and about. So I researched some programs, and I ended up landing on a EdD in curriculum and instruction. And I will say that kind of where I am today is a culmination of me naively thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna learn this, we're going to do blah, blah, blah. But then as I really got into the program, it kind of opened my eyes up to some other things. I know that is probably pretty typical of folks. But I'll get to that in just a second.

Elissa Frazier

But essentially, my role right now is one, to finish this doggone dissertation, right? I'm waiting for IRB- three times, three times.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Elissa Frazier

Oh, my gosh. They're like, can you tell me that again? How are you going to be confidential? All of the stuff that they ask you. So I'm like, did I word it- do I need to get? Apparently. I feel like they asked the same question like eighteen different times. But that's a whole nother podcast. It's like, how do you get through IRB? Anyway, for those of y'all who don't know, IRB is like the light, the green light, for you to actually start doing your research. It's a process of there being a group of people, a review board, who look at what you propose. Then they make sure that it meets the standards that have been set to ensure safety, to ensure that the methods are what they should be, and protections and all of those things. So it's a great thing. However, they are super particular. Anyway, I am at that process, at that stage. So that is on the docket. Also, I am a evaluator. This was something that came up in my degree, where one of my professors said, hey, you would be a really great evaluator. And I was like, really? I don't know. So anyway...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Can you define what am evaluator is for the audience?

Elissa Frazier

Yeah. The speed version is that there are kind of two different schools of thoughts for what an evaluator is, essentially. One school of thought is that it is a person who comes into an organization, and really looks at the design of the organization. What does it seek to do? What outcomes does it seek to move forward? And what's the progress that it's making towards meeting those outcomes? It's really a lot of assessment, a lot of accountability, a lot of looking at different data. Then coming back and saying, did you do what you set out to do? At the simplest version. So on one end, it's a type of research.

Elissa Frazier

But on the other end, and this is kind of where I sit, is that evaluators are folks that come in and facilitate conversations about what data means, and who it means what to and who it's most impacted by. I've been trained as what's called a culturally responsive evaluator. So I specifically go into organizations and schools and systems and say, who's at the table? Who are the different stakeholders? Whose voices are not heard? What are the surrounding contexts that are there? And how do these data speak to their experiences? Bbecause you can have data, but it can be weaponized. It can be used against folks who have been historically underserved.

Elissa Frazier

So I take the role of being an evaluator as a privilege, to be able to come in and to have those kinds of conversations with folks who, quite frankly, don't have to have them, right? Because they're usually folks that have money, have power, have position. And evaluation can be like a checklist. Like we got to do it, kind of make sure we got continuous improvement, quality assessment. We got to do this thing. But to be able to say, let's really talk about what this means, and what it means to who, and who's impacted, and all of that. I'm really grateful. I feel like I get to do that. So that's something that came up, and I do that part time.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And is that part of your program, or is that separate from your program?

Elissa Frazier

Oh good lord have mercy, gravy. So every one that enters into where I attend, everybody goes- it's a prerequisite. You take your body of research courses. You take your quantitative methods, your qualitative methods, your evaluation. It's in the suite of like, everybody gotta take this. So I took the courses that everybody took, and that's when this professor said, I can see this in you. Like, I see it. And it was a terribly hard course. I was like, I don't understand what's going on, all these models. What's the logic? What's the theoretical framing?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, my goodness, I get it. I get it completely, because I'm currently- I'm transitioning out- but I work for a federally funded program.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And you have to apply for the grant.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And for the grant, you have to write. You have to write, draft the logic models.

Elissa Frazier

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And you have to have assessments]. We're actually in the middle of having an external evaluation.

Elissa Frazier

That's me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So you're that person.

Elissa Frazier

Yes, oh my goodness.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Interviewing, and asking for the data and the curriculum, and you know, the other parts.

Elissa Frazier

Oh, my goodness, yes. So you're with me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But I know it on the other end. Basically, I'm the person on the opposite end.

Elissa Frazier

Oh, it was just- it made my head hurt. I like the process, the thinking within it. But it was really tough for me. So when she said, I think that this would be really- I see it, the way that you think, the way that you're engaging. And I'm also a coach, so building the capacity of people is something I'm super passionate about. Having coached teams of teachers and looking at how do we improve school systems and not just this policy, you got to do this.

Elissa Frazier

Anyway, I applied for something called the GEDI, which is called the graduate education diversity initiative. It is an arm of the AEA, which just is a big term that means the American Evaluation society. It's an organization. Anyway, I applied. I became a fellow as part- simultaneously in my program. What that meant is that there there were twelve of us across the United States who got trained to be quote, unquote, culturally responsive evaluators, to learn about what that means, to talk about how that impacts the work that we do, the lenses that we take, and not just slapping a label. Not just oh, diversity, oh, inclusion, oh, be culturally responsive. There's all these catch terms, and so they're like...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's what I was gonna say. So many people just use these terms without actually thinking about what they mean as a whole.

Elissa Frazier

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And also how they define it for themselves.

Elissa Frazier

All of that, all of that. So they're like, you won't be that. You won't be that. We're going to train you. So part of the training was to work with a team of evaluators, to be on that team. Some folks were at National Science Foundation. Some folks were at the University of North Carolina. I was at EDC, which is a international nonprofit. Essentially, you join a team. You do evaluation. When that fellowship was over- so I was taking courses. I was in my program while I was doing this. And it was a paid fellowship. So that's good to have some more income. It was simultaneous. Then after that was over, I stayed on as a RA, a research associate.

Elissa Frazier

But yeah, so that's kind of where I'm at. Then the last thing I would say is that I founded Navcap, which Dra. Yvette mentioned earlier. I founded Navcap, because what I found was that- I co founded it actually. What I found is that in my experience, there were several instances where I really was hyper aware of who I was in the space and what I didn't know. So I would do things like, oh my gosh, y'all. I found this great thing out. I asked ten people, and I found this thing. And they would say, oh no. So and so already told me this six months ago, or a year ago, or pulled me in their office, or did this or did that.

Elissa Frazier

So what I found is that one, I'm the only Black woman in my cohort. And I found that there were several examples where folks were really getting positioned, groomed, mentored, and getting a lot of support. And I was just unaware. I just thought like, this is just supposed to be Lone Ranger. I'm supposed to be crying. I'm working my butt off. You know, the whole mentality of you got to work twice as hard. So I had been conditioned that I just got to do that. I just got to be this. And I was like, whoa. When I leave this program, when I leave this part of my life, I want to make sure that the things that I've learned that I can build community around that, to create this knowledge pipeline.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love it.

Elissa Frazier

So that other folks can have more of what they need. And it really aligns with your mission as well. You know, I was following you on the gram. I was like, she is on it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yay, thanks for reaching out. So wait, does Navcap stand for something? Is that an acronym? Can you tell us...

Elissa Frazier

Yeah, so Navcap is like grad cap, but it really stands for navigational capital.

Elissa Frazier

Nice.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

See, I didn't get that right away. I should have, but I didn't get it.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah, no, no, no. It's kind of like in the background. But yeah. That's where I'm at. That's kind of how I ended up here right now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

How- this is the big question, the how. How have you been able to navigate this graduate program with your evaluation requirements? And on top of that, your a mom. You didn't even get to that part.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Can you speak to that too?

Elissa Frazier

Yeah. So I imagine possibility. When something is really in my heart, I'm like, how can I grow this? I'm not about the small stuff. I'm about steps towards the big stuff. The evaluation for me- in terms of kind of how it connects with Navcap, or where I see it intersecting with Navcap. It's really being able to facilitate conversations among my peers. And saying, what are the things that- kind of doing a needs assessment. What are the things that we have? What are the things that we need? Who can we talk to and tap into to get those resources? And how can we connect resources amongst and grow our personal locus? But in addition to that, how can we begin to have conversations with the transitioning higher ed, transitioning with the browning of these universities, as we have the browning of....

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, I feel like you need to talk more. What do you mean by that? The transition of higher ed...

Elissa Frazier

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

The browning, lots of terms there.

Elissa Frazier

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, let me dial it back. In these United States that we currently live in, we see that the demographics, the populations are changing. That is not isolated to any one area. You see it in K 12. You see it in the communities. You see it in higher ed, and so...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But you don't see it reflected among the teachers or the professors.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah, there you go. There you go. So what's happening is that higher ed has been operating through a model which does not require that they look at their faculty, and they look at their supports, and they say, how are we serving the students that are coming to us? How can we better serve them? So we see this kind of tension, where it's- hey, yeah. It's technically quote, unquote, the ivory tower. But guess what? If you're not serving the folks that are coming in, they're going to demand more.

Elissa Frazier

No more is it okay to have the rising stars as being the only holders of resources. When I say the transition, that's what I mean. I mean that higher ed is kind of, it's in birth. It's having birthing pains right now, because they really need to be- and they are. But it's going to be a slow transition, where they're looking at, what does student services look like? What does college and career look like?

Elissa Frazier

We've seen the last thirty years, where there's been kind of different transitions. Up until 2020, it was- we're going to connect you with folks. But really, right now, we're in the state of ecosystems. These ecosystems are really like, how do we create systems where we're looking at the person that's kind of before us, we're looking at the person after us, we're looking parallel- not just this linear, hierarchical, these steps to get to this degree.

Elissa Frazier

And there's a bunch of research around- NACE came out with some research. It's National Association of Colleges, employers. They came out and they said that employers are saying, wait a second. These folks are graduating with these degrees, but they are not knowledgeable about the culture of the field, how to have collaborative conversations, how to build upon each other's knowledges. So really, I'm passionate about mentorship, because it can bridge that gap in terms of being able to talk about the kind of hidden and unseen but very real levers of success that we need.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I've gotten so much from this. I know firsthand about the transitions that higher ed is going through and like you said, the birthing pains, you called them. I'm wondering-because you used that word- how how does being a mom influence the work that you do? And you also- not only are you a mom, but you mentioned you're the only Black student in your program.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's also meaningful too. I was the only- I was one of two people of color, the only Latina in my program. The only other person of color was a Black woman. It's just, it's a shame that there are so few of us in certain programs.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah. So as far as being a mom- oh, and I didn't get to that. I'm a mom of four. I have three at home and one who is a senior in undergrad. So you know, bless her.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm assuming there's a big range of ages?

Elissa Frazier

Oh lord, yes. We have twenty two, we have eleven and thirteen, and we have seven.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, my goodness. So you've got elementary, middle school, college.

Elissa Frazier

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I don't think high school, right?

Elissa Frazier

Nope, not high school. And my two middle kiddos are on the spectrum. They're on the autism spectrum.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

My seven, soon to be eight year old is on the spectrum too.

Elissa Frazier

Oh, we can talk about- I mean, we can talk about it here, but we can talk about it later, about him or her.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Him, yeah.

Elissa Frazier

Him, okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

My son Emiliano. We call him Emi.

Elissa Frazier

Emi- we're gonna talk about his gifts. And that's a whole nother podcast. I am an autism advocate. I'm all about finding your kids' gifts.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Elissa Frazier

We're gonna talk about that later. That's a whole nother show.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When they're into something, they're like into it. And it's such a talent. I'm like, I could not do what you do.

Elissa Frazier

They're so amazing.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Elissa Frazier

So when you talk about- how does it impact me as a mom? One of the things I would say is that when I speak about my family, like I need to do this thing. That thing could be - my son had a meltdown, right? I need to go to the school, and I need to be the mother. What it's meant for me in a good way is that I am able to look at- look through the lens of imperfection. Because I'm very much strategy focused. I'm like- make a plan, got a strategy. We're gonna do this, and these are the tasks within that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh my gosh, same.

Elissa Frazier

Like, we're gonna pack this thing. When you have kids who have exceptionalities, and they're like, no, we're not gonna go there. We're gonna go this way, or I learn better this way. Or guess what? You can't fix me. I'm not fixable. I am who I am. It causes you to look at your life and your situation in a way where you're like, wow. I need to stop trying to force things into this box, and say, wait a second. Sometimes it's gonna overflow. That idea of like- to some, it's an undoing, right? They're like, I could never. And I'm like, I have to.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And unlearning, yeah.

Elissa Frazier

Unlearning, yes. Yes, yes. So that's a great thing that I had to learn. The negative- not the negative, but on the other side- is that there are things- very real things- that happen, right? Where, because my kids have experienced bullying. If I have need, that I'm going to be late for a class. And I'm not going to apologize for it. That was a thing that would come up in my program. Like well, you know- and I'm looking like, I'm not gonna. I'm sorry for the inconvenience to you, because it's not a respect issue. I respect you. I respect your class. I respect your position tremendously.

Elissa Frazier

But I went through a thing where I was apologizing for my very being. I was apologizing for not coming in the embodiment of what they expected, you know this black skin. I would speak about my experiences, and they would look at me like huh? I'm like, I'm not a movie. I'm not a movie, didn't make this up. I'm not the only one. There are tons of folks that have adjacent experiences to me. So there was that. In addition to that, I'm not gonna apologize for being a professional woman with children who is really passionate about what I'm doing. I'm super serious. Because I have children, it doesn't make me any less serious.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was gonna say that I love that you say that, that you are unapologetic about who you are. I think that a lot of first gen students of color struggle with that, especially when they're still relatively young, still kind of questioning themselves and their worthiness. I wish that there was something that I could say or that you could say that it's like, okay, I told you, now you go do it. You go set your boundaries. You go be unapologetic. But I know it takes a long time to get there. I wonder if for you- because I know for me, one of the things that has helped me has actually been becoming a mom. Because in becoming a mom, I have had to learn to advocate not just for myself, but for other people and for my children. I will be- what is it- like a mama bear when it comes to my kids. You mess with my kids, I will be there. I will tell you. So it's just- I don't know what I'm trying to get at this, other than like, I just I wish that more people could get to that point of being unapologetic, of them being 100% themselves and proud of who they are. Even if they don't fit into the mold of what a student, grad student, academic looks like. I wish that they could get there sooner. I know what helped me get there sooner was becoming a mom. That doesn't mean everybody should become a parent, because it's hard work and it's not for everyone.

Elissa Frazier

Certainly.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I applaud you for four, because I'm done after two.

Elissa Frazier

Look, let me tell you. Four is- two is- just one.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

They're all hard.

Elissa Frazier

They will do it for you, okay? Anyway...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm one of six, by the way. I grew up with four brothers and one sister, so I know what it's like to be in a big family.

Elissa Frazier

Me too. I'm seven out of eight.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, wow.

Elissa Frazier

Uh huh, I'm seven out of eight. We're four girls, four boys.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow, nice.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Even wow. Sorry, I got distracted there.

Elissa Frazier

Even. I will say for anyone that's listening, it takes flexing and exercising the muscle. And you can do it in a language that feels authentic to you. So for me, the language was, I want you to know that I respect you tremendously. However, I'm working on communicating the things that I need. That was one of the things that I said. Also, eventually I would say- and this just happened last year, okay? All of the comfort took years to grow into. To say, I am setting boundaries. For me, for my professors, what that meant was, when I went from being a full time professional and part time grad student to now being- I got an assistantship, so then I became a full time graduate student. I was like an indentured servant, where I'm doing work- good work- all of this. But there was an expectation that you're not going to have a life. That you're going to support my research, my scholarship. And you're capped at whatever the hours that you are, but the reality is that you weren't capped. Whatever they need...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh you get paid the number of hours, but you're expected to do more, I'm sure.

Elissa Frazier

But you're expected to do more. So I had to really set those boundaries and say, I need you to know that I respect you. But I'm setting these boundaries. And in setting these boundaries, I'm respecting my wellness. Being able to say- and then having to say it four, and five, and six and seven times. When you get to the point where you're like, you know what? I have to speak so it's not a scream and a yell, and I can't believe. Really, literally writing down those those affirming, but really solid statements to let folks know- and to remind them, because they're not going to be used to it. If you've had three years of Elissa- or in their case, a year and a half of Elissa being one way to acquiesce. Then now I'm saying- or saying and being and expressing. And my body language is still happy. You know, they're expecting- oh, she should be. No, not uncomfortable at all. Feeling just- hope you have a great day. You have to keep- it's one of those things that it's not just going to turn on.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

This is bringing me to my next question. I feel like it's a good segue, because you're talking about - like earlier on, you mentioned that you learn to communicate the things that you need. Learning to be firm about your boundaries, which first of all, you need to realize what your boundaries are, and then communicate them. So that brings me to the topic of how do you balance family with everything else that you have going on as a graduate student, as a professional? I can imagine one of them is that communication part, communicating your needs. But what else do you do to balance family with being a graduate student?

Elissa Frazier

There are a couple of things that I do. One, I've decided that apologizing is not going to be a habit. Meaning that if I do something that's egregious, or I do something that shouldn't do, I acknowledge it. I own it, and I apologize for it. But what I'm not going to say is, oh, my kids will understand. Oh, my partner will understand. Oh, it'll be okay. No. I've said if it's creating tension, if it's hurting and that hurt is growing, and I am causing that by way of me kind of expecting other folks to move around me, then I need to say- wait a second. What is important for my unit, for my locus?

Elissa Frazier

For me, my unit is that I have a wonderful husband. And so it's important for when I decide that I'm working towards something- the decision is taking three classes, or taking one class, or this fellowship, whatever the decision is that's really important to me. I check in and say, hey, this is the thing that I'd love to do. But it's going to impact you. Even if it doesn't impact the work that you do, it's going to impact where I am, what I'm doing, how available I am. I want to talk to you about this so that we can come to an understanding of one, how do you feel about this? To what are we agreeing to and giving up? That's one. So that I don't keep saying, oh, I meant to do that. Oh, because I set out to do this thing not taking into account- and this includes my kids too right? My baby, if she wants to watch Moana or whatever movies- we do movie. We do protected time.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, I like that. Can you say more?

Elissa Frazier

Yeah, we do protected time. For a long time- a long time to me was a good year and a half. I was just not available for that. I worked seven days a week between school and everything. I was just over- absolutely just probably seventy hours a week, just really, really. On a lightweight, maybe sixty hours a week. I just worked so much. And my kids were kinda like, oh, you use the bathroom. Okay, here's your computer. They knew that like- brush your teeth, get your computer. They already knew that was who I was. I was just working so much.

Elissa Frazier

And my kids were like, we miss being around you. We miss doing stuff with you. What I ended up saying to them was that I want to spend time with you. I want to be with you. I may not be able to do it every week. Because it's ideal, right? When I say do this with you, I mean a four or five hour chunk. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about like, asking kids how their day are, checking on them ten minutes, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about like, not on a device, totally present. I'm talking about just me and you, that's it.

Elissa Frazier

So I said, I can't do that every week. But I will commit to either every other week- definitely once a month- but every other week, we're going to have time together. Whether it's sitting in the bed watching a movie, whether it's creating something together, a craft together. Protected time so that they know, yes, you're going to work, work, work. But you're also going to work at the relationship with us and that you don't just- and this is for each kid.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Individually? Like each kid gets their own protected time?

Elissa Frazier

Each kid gets protected time.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Elissa Frazier

My older son, he doesn't require that. I just kind of check in with him. He doesn't ask for it. But my youngest, absolutely. Then my middle son, he gets time with me. He doesn't get like four hours, but he might get a good hour, hour and a half.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Is that the eleven or the thirteen year old?

Elissa Frazier

That's the eleven.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh okay, because thirteen, I'm like...

Elissa Frazier

Yeah, thirteen, he don't want to be with me like that. But he could. The thing is that I need you to have access to me. And sometimes we do family stuff together where we'll all of us go out to the mall. Like tomorrow- not tomorrow, Sunday- where all of us are going out. Where we're kind of like, well, who wants to see this? What are we going to do? And if we can agree on something that all of us want to see, we're gonna go out, we're gonna get nachos. We're gonna have our mask and everything. But we're gonna go out. We're gonna do this thing. That's a big thing, is having that protected time. Then the other thing I would say is, besides the apologizing, I would say that don't power through. Sometimes, we're like, I've got this thing. I'm just gonna power through. Well definitely, just like you block off time to- I'm a huge planner. Like, I could teach this to the masses.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You probably have to be with four kids and multiple jobs.

Elissa Frazier

Right? Come on. But if there is a time where my body tells me- or my children's body. I pay attention to their body language, to where is it? If I'm seeing them and I'm seeing that they're sad for a couple days, or I'm seeing that they're going through something for a couple of days, I have to remind myself, wait a second. I'm not just going to keep doing this thing that I've been doing, whatever this project is. And I can't expect them to just power through the thing that they're- they'll be okay. They're resilient. Yeah, they're resilient.

Elissa Frazier

But I am the mother. Because I am their mother, and I'm an active parent, I need to make sure that- if I don't open up the lines to say, I'm noticing that something's wrong. I want to make sure that I check in with you and really check in with you. Then they're going to be building up that wall and that habit of like, oh, I just deal with this on my own. So we're learning each other. We're training each other. When I find myself in the mode where I'm like, oh no. I have to say, oh, I've seen this twice. Oh, I've seen this three times. Stop.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I like that you said that you don't power through, and you don't force your kids to power through anything. Because I think that's actually a common rhetoric in academia, too, is pushing students. And even sometimes using that word resilient as a way of like, oh you're resilient. So we don't need to provide you with x, y, and z resources. I have a love hate relationship with that word. But powering through, I just think that's what leads to burnout.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And for me, I navigate a chronic illness. So if I power through, I flare up. If I power through, I get sick. And the reason I developed a chronic illness was from powering through and being a workaholic for so long. That's why I too am not a fan of that. I say if it's too much, take a break. If it's too much, take time. Do what you need to do to nourish or replenish yourself. I think that's great advice for anyone, not just someone balancing family. Because I think we all have loved ones, we all have people who we want to make time and space for.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I know we're getting close to the time.

Elissa Frazier

Okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I want to kind of have us wrap up with maybe anything else that you wanted to share. I know we have you on to talk about being a Black grad student mom.

Elissa Frazier

Yes, yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So what else would you like to share about that?

Elissa Frazier

I'll say that- pay attention to what folks' love language and expression of themselves is. But don't just pay attention to it and think that like, oh, I know what they think. I know how they feel. I know how they- like, this is what it means to them. Sometimes we know it. Me, I'm pointing at myself. I know it. But I expect for them to receive the thing that I'm giving them. So if I know that you love to hear these words of affirmation. My love language is taking care of stuff.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was about to ask you. Wait, which one is that one? Acts of service.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah, acts of service. So if my husband washes the dishes, or cleans the floor. I am just so cuddly. I'm just like, oh my gosh, so appreciative. That's the thing. However, I know that he has his language. But I'm like, well, if I just do this thing- and really in the back of my mind, it's- I'm doing this thing because it's really important to me. I think it's important, and it needs to get done. So I'm just going to do this. Paying attention and listening and not just knowing the person- and this includes your kids, your partner, even your friends, right? I have a group of women who pour into me, and I always believe that it's important.

Elissa Frazier

Because I'm in a unit, a traditional- and I hate to use that word traditional, but whatever. Because I'm in the type of unit that I'm in right now, I am very much like- hey, if you are in a unit, in a relationship with one, two, however many people you're in a relationship with. It is a thing where you have to pay attention to the things that they need. And not just knowing it, but seeing them as integral parts, extensions of you, of the you that you are. The reason why I said traditional is because some folks are in open relationships, which is their choice, which is what they want, which is what they need. I am not. And so because I'm in that type of relationship, I'm really like, hey, just because I made some vows to you that said, yeah we're gonna be here together, better or worse. Better or worse doesn't mean that I keep the gist that I get to keep giving you just the kibbles and bits, when I know that you need more, when I know that you deserve more. And when I know that when we agreed, we didn't agree to the kibbles and bits. I hope that makes sense. I don't know if...

Elissa Frazier

Yes. What I'm hearing also- because you said, learn the love languages, not just for your romantic partner or relationship, but also your kids, also, your friends.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I can see that any loved one that you're close to, you want to honor that relationship by knowing their love language, and by giving them your best. And hopefully, it's reciprocal. That's what I heard. You're saying like, okay, I'm not just gonna give just the scraps to your husband or to my husband, you know?

Elissa Frazier

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But also, that it's the same for very close friendships. I have a group of women- the women of Chicana Motherwork - who are like my sisters.

Elissa Frazier

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I feel a little ashamed to admit, I actually don't- I think I know their love language. But I've never actually, frankly- I'm gonna go put it in a text message or on GroupMe or something, and be like, what are y'alls love language? So I can write it as as a note to myself. Because I've never actually asked them. It's so interesting. I know my husband, his love language is affection, and it's so obvious. Mine is quality time, and I'm always asking for it.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And my son too, it's quality time and words of affirmation. But I don't know that to be true for my friendships. I know what my mom's love language is too. It's interesting to think about that. I'm glad that you mentioned it, because I think it helps with building relationships. I think that is also part of balancing academia with having a family, with being just a human, and in relationship with others.

Elissa Frazier

Oh yeah. It's part of your well being. I guess that was where I was going, was to say that we forget- we as in the identity of being a grad student, the identity, that portion. It's kind of like your academic, whatever you're doing, overshadows your wellness, and your personal relationships. Not just your health as in your physical health, but how you're feeling in your heart, and being able to feel poured into, and being able to pour into other people, right? Because if you're empty, you might want to pour into them, but there's not this ebb and flow of the relationship. And so, you know, you're kind of vessel that's half full.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I remember one time someone telling me like, Yvette, you are not a robot. You are not a machine. It's okay to take a break. And I was like, okay. I needed someone to tell me that it was okay for me to do it. This was many, many years ago. Now I'm the one saying that to other people. But I think that's a great way to wrap things up. One last thing I want to ask you is, if others, like me, resonated with what you said and want to be in touch, want to support, how can they reach you?

Elissa Frazier

Oh, my goodness. I was on mute. Anybody that wants to reach out, I'm on the gram. Definitely look me up- NavcapNetwork. If you go onto our site, it's Navcap.io. There's a reach out and connect with me. We actually have a free community. It's going to be free forever.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that.

Elissa Frazier

It's not gonna be one of those sneakies where you get in, and they're like, hey, guess what? You got to pay. Nope.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Free for the first month.

Elissa Frazier

Free for the first month. No, it's a free forever community. And I will- shameless plug- I will say that one of the things that's on deck that I'm super excited about is we're putting together a grad camp, which is like an ed camp. I'm an ed techie. And I forgot to mention this, but my research is culturally responsive tech integration.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah. Anyone that's an ed techie knows that we have these things called ed camps. An ed camp is essentially where you get a group of folks who are normally educators, and they create the interactions and the conference that they want. They literally do it while they're there. So you go, you have a big board. You kind of write down- what do I want to learn about? What's important to me? Then you have folks that go and break out, and you have small group sessions, like thirty to forty minutes where folks go, this is what I know. This is what I've learned. These are resources.

Elissa Frazier

That's one of the things that we have on deck for Navcap, is doing a virtual grad camp. So that grad students can get together and say, oh, my goodness. Say I'm a grad school mom, say I'm a this, I'm a that. What are some things that have worked? But not only that- what are some really great resources? I'm excited for that. And I'm also excited for this partnership, because it's not just like one. It's like the X Men, you know? It's like the X Men,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Elissa Frazier

It's like, the mic goes off. There's like hundred and thousands of X Men. There's hundred and thousands of us. So I definitely reject the idea that community can't reinforce community. We are so much better together.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

A hundred percent, agree. Yeah.

Elissa Frazier

A hundred percent. So support Dra. Yvette, femtoring, support that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Support Navcap.

Elissa Frazier

Support Navcap. Come one. Because there is enough for all of us.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I agree.

Elissa Frazier

But there's so many people that are still not getting fed.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Elissa Frazier

Let's go ahead and get it out there to them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that. Oh, my goodness. I'm getting so excited. Well, I think that's a wrap for today's episode. Thank you. Thank you so much, soon to be Dr. Elissa Frazier.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Putting it out there.

Elissa Frazier

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you for joining us today.

Elissa Frazier

Yep.