48: Establishing a Good Relationship with your Advisor

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Hi everyone. Today I'm going to be talking to you about how to establish a good relationship with your advisor, or your faculty mentor. This was a topic suggested to me via Instagram when I asked- when was it? It must have been sometime in December, for some ideas for my January episodes. Thank you to the individual who suggested this topic and I'm just gonna go straight to it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I am gonna get started by telling you a little bit about my experience working with faculty mentors and advisors. I'll just say this, I feel like I experienced the two ends of the pendulum, two extremes in terms of mentorship and advising. My first relationship with a faculty mentor was an undergrad when I was part of the Mellon Mays undergraduate research fellowship. I remember, I was admitted to the program. I still hadn't fully secured a mentor, and I had to reach out to different professors. I was really self conscious. I was new to research, but I emailed a bunch of people who seemed relevant, who had similar interests as me. Some people got back to me, they were too busy. Other people never responded back to my email. One professor was interested and said that she was open to meeting with me over office hours. I had never met her before. She was a relatively new professor at the time, an assistant professor. And she was doing research that was not the exact match. I was trying to do research on Chicano theater, Chicanx theater, and this person was more of a specialist in literature, Chicanx literature.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But I decided, well, I need a mentor so let me give this a shot. I met with her and provided her with some materials so that she could get to know me more. I think I must have sent her a CV, maybe an abstract or proposal. I'm not quite sure. But nonetheless, the meeting went very well. She ended up becoming my faculty mentor, and I ended up working with her for two years, for my junior and senior year in undergrad. It was a really incredible, positive relationship. I consider myself really lucky, because I didn't have the nightmare scenarios that I had heard of from my peers. My faculty mentor was really attentive, really good at communicating with me, met with me regularly. She'd meet with me sometimes weekly, sometimes bi weekly. We'd decide depending on what I was working on. She gave me a lot of feedback, but on top of giving me a lot of feedback, she also gave me a lot of compliments. That's something I wasn't used to. So she'd remind me what a great student I was, that I was making really good progress. I remember when I got to the point of working on finalizing my senior thesis, I just didn't feel like it was done. I didn't feel like it was good enough. At one point, she sat me down and told me, you know what, Yvette? You're done. This is it. It's ready. Your thesis is complete.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It just felt so nice to have someone validate the work that I had done and believe in me so much, and constantly uplift me when I was feeling down, and when I was feeling like I wasn't good enough, like I wasn't gonna get into graduate school. It's really funny because we had very similar working styles. We're both very organized. We're both very prompt. It wasn't until years later, while I was in grad school-because we continued to stay in touch that- I found out that we actually share the same birthday. We're both Virgos. So a lot of things made sense after the fact that I didn't noticed that I worked with her as an undergrad. To this day, I admire her. She's now a full professor doing incredible things. I very much look up to her. I still stay in touch. That was a very positive experience. I can't say enough positive things about my relationship with her, about her as an individual, about the great mentoring style, good fit for me, et cetera, et cetera.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Okay, now, let's transition to the opposite end of the pendulum. I started grad school and I knew who I was going to be working with, because this was the person who was a specialist, and had done research in what I wanted to do research in, which is Chicana Latina performance. This person happened to be the chair of the department. Very, very well known in her discipline. And I remember the first time I met her. It was in a graduate seminar, and we were all so intimidated. This was someone who didn't really give compliments. This was someone who would scoff at any little thing you would say. She had this tendency of, as soon as you would try to say something, she would just go hmm. Or flat out, say no, and not let you finish your sentence and move on to someone else, just cut you off and say no, in the middle of you trying to say something, trying to contribute in discussion. I remember, I had heard all kinds of not so great, not so positive things.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

This was after the fact. This was after I applied, after I was set to work with her. Had I known these things before applying or while applying, I don't think I would have worked with this individual. But yeah, I had heard that she was infamous for making people cry in office hours. And you know what? I thought to myself, it's okay. I'm the type of person that, I'm very organized. I like to communicate clearly. I like to set goals. At that point, I don't think I had ever missed a deadline in my life. I was used to being an A student. So I thought, okay. If I just do what I've been doing all along, maybe we might not click as well as with my undergrad mentor, but at least I'll make good progress. I'll complete my PhD, and it'll be fine.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Well, no, I wasn't fine. This person was not supportive when I got pregnant. This person treated me differently than she treated other students. I would find out because I would reach out to other people in my cohort who were working with her and ask, because they, some of them had advanced earlier than me. They had done their exams earlier than me. They had written certain chapters earlier than me. They were about a year ahead. So when I would ask them what to expect, and try to then communicate and follow the same steps, I was treated differently. I was treated like, I wasn't doing enough good work. I just, I didn't feel valued. I didn't feel respected. I was afraid of this person being spiteful towards me. I didn't even feel comfortable asking this person to write me recommendation letters, because I didn't know what she was gonna write about me. I didn't feel confident that she would write me a strong letter. And this is as someone who, I try to keep my shit together. I try to be organized. I try to do my best. I'm not perfect, but I tried really hard to be a good graduate student. And it ended with, I was in my third or fourth year of graduate school. She dropped me as her student. I never received an explanation for why she dropped me. She just one day sent an email, cc-ing someone else saying, here I'm passing her on to you. You can be her advisor, I no longer want to work with her.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

That was a really difficult thing to swallow. But it was actually a blessing in disguise, because the person that she passed me on to happened to be a new hire in the department. He was actually very similar to my previous mentor in terms of being very organized and being willing to meet with me as often as I needed to, gave me a lot of feedback. He didn't give me as many compliments as my first mentor, but he was as supportive as he could be, given where he was in his career. And it worked out fine. He was someone I trusted and he was very supportive of all of the decisions that I made throughout my time in graduate school.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But I learned a really tough lesson, working with my undergrad faculty mentor, and then my first PhD advisor. Then I ended up working with other people through my dissertation committee and just developing kind of informal relationships with other people in academia. So I've seen a wide range of different mentoring styles, and it's been really great. In fact, now that I work for the McNair program, it's really interesting because I have had a supervisor who is a faculty member this whole time, and I just started a new transition where we got a new faculty director. My previous faculty director/supervisor retired, and now we've got a new one. It's been really interesting to get to know both of them and their differences. Again, I continue to learn about differences in mentoring styles, advising styles, and even supervising styles. But anyway, so I am digressing.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Let me get back to the topic, which is, how do you develop a good relationship with your advisor? Well, lesson number one, just from hearing about my experience is, first you have to make sure you are finding a good advisor. Instead of trying to develop a good relationship with someone who you have no idea what their mentoring style is like, what their personality is like, what their research experience is like. You want to do that homework upfront. How do you do that? Before making a commitment to work with them, meet with them. Ask them. It's okay for you to interview them. It's okay to ask them, what is your mentoring style like? Or what's your approach to mentorship? What is your teaching philosophy? Because a lot of times, it's also important to see how they teach because ultimately, they're going to be teaching you in some way, shape, or form.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

What are their communication preferences? Do they really like meeting often, meeting in person, or are they more hands off? Do they only prefer email or they are terrible at emails? You want to find out these things ahead of time. You want to find out where are they in their career? Are the early career, mid career, are they really well established? How available are they? Sometimes people early in their career are very available, very supportive. Sometimes, they're not very available, because they're working really hard to try to secure tenure. So find out both where they are in their career and how available they are to working with students.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Then if you can, find out who have they worked with, or who are they currently working with, and find out what those students have to say about them. This is actually something that I recently did just with finding out, I was like, oh. I'm gonna get a new supervisor. I'm kind of curious what this person is going to be like. It ended up being, there were two different people who could potentially become my new supervisor, so I asked around folks who knew them. I got really interesting responses. And the person who did end up becoming my supervisor, I heard really good things about her and that was really reassuring. Now that I'm getting to know her more, I'm realizing that all those things they said were true, and I'm very happy with my new supervisor. Point is, find out. What do other students have to say about them? And find out- this is something that's really, really important.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Aside from whether this person is a good match for you, academically and with regard to your research interests, you should also try to find out is this person kind? If I had asked myself that question, or if I had asked that question about my first PhD advisor, is this person kind? The answer would have been no, and I wouldn't have worked with them. I really wouldn't have. So first, make sure that you do your homework on who this person is, if you're still in the process of trying to find an advisor. If you're stuck with someone, well. Actually, let me reframe that. If you're currently working with someone, don't feel like you're stuck. There's always an opportunity for you to switch mentors, so keep that in mind.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But let's say you've got someone as your advisor, as your faculty mentor, and so far, you know, so far so good. But maybe you're still trying to get to know them. You're still trying to figure out how this is gonna work. What do I recommend at that point, or at that stage? I am a big fan of setting introductory meetings or scheduling an introductory meeting. This is if you just recently secured a faculty to mentor. It's good to schedule a time to meet to talk about expectations. What are their expectations of you? What are your expectations of them? How often do you plan on meeting? This is when again, you can ask them about their mentoring styles. You want to ask about goals, and specific, measurable goals with tasks that you can complete and deadlines for each task.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Then just maintain clear communication throughout. You're going to hear this over and over and over again. Communication is key when you're developing a strong relationship with an advisor. In some cases, you could be over communicating. But I'd rather have someone over communicate than under communicate. That's true with this students that I advise with McNair. I've got some students who have a tendency of when they get really stressed out, they go missing. They stop responding to emails. They stop showing up to seminars, and that is incredibly frustrating. But also, I can empathize with that, with that feeling of overwhelm, and shame and not feeling comfortable kind of owning up to it at that point in time. So I can see where they're coming from, but it's also really hard to deal with that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

As opposed to students who maybe over communicate. I've got students who are, you know, all types of personalities, all types of working styles. We've got those that go missing and freak out and under communicate. We've got those that freak out and over communicate, and for any little thing, they're emailing me every few minutes with lots of questions. And it's okay, I mean, that's what I'm here for. That's what your mentor is there for, to help you. But ideally, you want to find a good spot in that middle point where you're not over communicating, you're not under communicating. You're willing to ask for help. You're willing to let them know when you're stuck, when you've hit some sort of roadblock or hurdle.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But also, you've considered figuring things out on your own. So before reaching out to your mentor, is there someone else that you could go to to get help? Is there a way for you to solve this problem beforehand? Do you have some suggestions or some ideas for solving your problem, and then you can maybe share those ideas with your mentor and get their input. That's one thing that I've learned, I think, just within my career, as someone who has both mentored people, but also been a mentee, and who has supervised people and have had supervisors. People will actually really appreciate it if you try to solve a problem first, or if you try to come up with some options or some solutions, before you even go to them for advice, or further input, or for their help. If you can do that, the more you can learn to do things on your own, and then figure out when do you actually need to ask for help. Don't try to do things so independently that then you don't reach out for help at all and then again, you just go missing and under communicate.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

The other thing about reaching out for help, there was another thing I wanted to mention, now I'm blanking out. I said, see if you can solve the problem on your own. If not, go to your mentor. Learn to ask for help, and for help from others. Oh, now I'm remembering. One other thing I wanted to mention that's really important, and it's something that I learned in graduate school because you know how I said earlier that in undergrad I didn't really miss deadlines. Well, that changed in grad school, because in grad schools, you're there for four, five, six, seven, eight years, and you're setting your own deadlines. A lot of times these deadlines are not hard deadlines. It's not like you have to submit an application otherwise the portal will shut down at a certain time. So it's a lot easier to miss deadlines.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I did for the first time start to miss deadlines in graduate school. But you know what? I learned to own up to it. So I want to just remind you this or tell you this, if you haven't heard it before, own up to your mistakes. If you set a timeline and set some goals with your mentor, and you're struggling and you feel like it might not happen this quarter, it might not happen this semester, it might not happen this year, schedule a time to meet with them to figure out something else. How can you modify your timeline? How can you refine your goals to make them more achievable, more realistic? It's okay to do that, and if you miss a deadline, instead of just hoping that they don't remember, and waiting for time to go by and seeing what happens, just own up to it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

If the deadline is coming up, and you know you're not going to make it, let them know in advance. Or if you try to make it and you still just can't quite get it done, the day of the deadline, say hi, Dr. So and So. Hi, professor so and so. I know that we had agreed for me to submit the first draft of my senior thesis by this date. Thus far, I've worked on this and this and this, and I have this much, but I'm not done. Just let them know, obviously, what progress you've made. However, I think that, you know, come up with some other plan. I could likely get it done by this date. Does that work for you? Or if you have other thoughts in mind, you know, I'm open to suggestions. So just communicating with them. Let them know that you're owning up to it. That it is your work, and that you're trying to figure out a way to to get it done even within some of the setbacks that come up, because life happens. Sometimes you may miss a deadline, or you may have to change a deadline.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Then one other thing I want to say, actually about advisors and faculty mentors is, and I mentioned this earlier, it's okay to switch. It's okay to change mentors. It can feel really awkward, because maybe you've been working for someone for a few weeks. And right away, you realize, oh. This is not going to work out. Or maybe you've been working with them for a quarter or semester, and again, you're realizing, I don't know that I still want to work with this person. Sometimes it's just their style. Sometimes it's flat out their personality. Sometimes it's your interests are switching, or they're changing and this person's work is no longer quite in line with what you want to do. Or maybe you've already dedicated a year, two years or more to this person, you feel like oh. If I've invested so much time and energy, they've invested so much time and energy. How can I make that switch? But you can. No matter what stage you're at, you can always make the switch?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

How do you do that? My advice is always keep it as professional and as diplomatic as possible. Even if it is a personality thing, even if it is a mentoring style thing, they don't need to know that. You can always try to find someone who is a better fit, and let them know that you found someone who is a better fit for you. You don't have to say a better fit in what way. You can say you know, I found someone who's a better fit for me. Or if you do and you feel comfortable, you can say oh. I found someone whose research interests are more closely aligned with what I want to do now. But always just don't make it personal. Keep it professional. Keep it diplomatic. Make it about fit, make it about the research, and they will understand. For the most part, they will understand. If they don't and if they're not supportive, then maybe it's just further validation for why you're making that switch.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I'm not a fan of burning bridges. I don't recommend it. But then again, I don't know if I did anything wrong as a grad student, but I had someone who dropped me. In that sense, I don't know that I actively burned a bridge. I think that she burned the bridge. She did it and I had to deal with the ramifications of that. But I was in a much better spot having worked with someone else and I'm actually relieved. Again can't say enough, it was a blessing in disguise for me. And that may be true for you. No, you don't want to wait for someone to drop you. Don't do that. But if you feel like this is not quite working out, then go ahead and try to actively search for someone else.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

This is a very important relationship. If you think about it, if you're an undergrad working with a faculty mentor- this person, you may work with them for one, two, maybe three years. I know some students who start doing research their sophomore year. If you're a transfer, maybe you start doing research right away, your first or second semester. So it could be, yeah, one, two, three years that you're working with this person. Then in grad school, like I said, if it's a PhD program, four, five, six, seve, eight, nine, ten years. That's a serious relationship. Yes, it's a professional relationship, but it's still a long term relationship, and it's going to affect your life. So take it seriously.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Do the work that you have to do to develop a strong relationship. Do the work that you have to do to switch mentors if necessary. Then you'll reap the benefits because then hopefully, this person will continue to be in touch with you long term. They'll know your growth. They'll always be there to root you on. In fact, my undergrad faculty mentor was the person who sent me the job ad- or one of several- but she did send me the job ad for the UCSB McNair position, and strongly encouraged me to apply. She told me that I was perfect for it. That was her language. You're perfect for this. And I think part of it was her encouragement, and look where I am now. I'm still very much with McNair. I'm very happy in my job, so I thank her a lot. Don't take this lightly. This person can influence your life in a big way. Do the work and hopefully you can develop a strong relationship with one or more advisor. That's all I have to say for today. If you have any other episode suggestions, send me an email. DM me on Instagram, and I'll consider it for the next recording. Have a good rest of the day.