382: Is an MBA Worth It? The Pros and Cons of an MBA with Nicole Moreno-Deinzer

382: Is an MBA Worth It? The Pros and Cons of an MBA with Nicole Moreno-Deinzer

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Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: [00:00:00] Have you ever wondered if getting an MBA is actually worth it or if it's just an expensive credential that may or may not pay off? For many first generation students and professionals, that question of whether or not to pursue an advanced degree can feel hard and heavy because it's about more than just career advancement.

It's about time, money, how it impacts your family, and whether the investment will actually pay off in the long run. Today, I'm joined by Nicole Moreno-Deinzer, a serial entrepreneur and former CEO of Epifania Magazine, a Latina lifestyle publication with a nationwide team. Alongside her business ventures, Nicole has built her personal brand, just Nicole, where she shares insights on travels and books.

She holds a BA in communication studies from San Francisco State and an MBA from Mills College. In this conversation, [00:01:00] we explore what it really means to pursue an MBA, especially as someone who is navigating entrepreneurship, career pivots, or long-term growth. We talk about how to decide if an MBA is worth it for you, what you can actually gain from the experience beyond the degree, and the very real financial and time trade-offs that come with it.

This is an honest conversation that at times will feel like you're getting advice from a big sister, and it'll help you think more critically about your next steps, especially if you're considering an MBA. Let's get into it. Here is my conversation with Nicole.

Welcome to the award-winning Grad School Femtoring Podcast, the place where first generation BIPOC students and professionals can listen in on [00:02:00] inclusive grad school stories and gain practical tools for sustainable success. This is Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu, a certified coach, consultant, author, and speaker.

I will be serving as your femtor, providing you with insider knowledge to help you thrive in grad school and beyond.

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring Podcast. This is your host, Doctora Yvette. Today we are talking about MBA programs, and in particular, we're gonna be talking about what you need to know about them, the pros and cons, whether or not it's worth it to pursue one, and our guest today is going to be talking to us all about that.

So just to jump straight in. Welcome, Nicole. I'd love to start by having you tell us a little bit more about [00:03:00] your journey and what led you to pursuing an MBA.

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on this podcast. This is really cool.

So I was that kid that had the whole encyclopedia set, I don't know if anyone else had those where it was like these blue books and there was a book for each letter, and college was something that was talked about a lot in our household. My dad was a high school teacher. It was sort of just like this is an option for all you kids. If you want to go to college, you can go. So I knew I was gonna get my bachelor's. I knew that was just gonna be the next step after high school. And then I get really drawn into doing the thing that not a lot of people do. I don't know why I sort of wanted like stand out and I remember looking up colleges and the percentage of people that get master's degrees are a lot less. And I'm like, well, then I wanna be part of that group. So was always in the back of my mind of I'm gonna get a master's. I don't know what I'm gonna get my master's in, [00:04:00] right? So I finished undergrad with my bachelor's communication studies. And then as I thought about it more and more and where I was work-wise, career-wise, I was like the MBA would be the most beneficial. Not that I needed it for my job, but that the classes that I would be taking will be very beneficial for me as a business owner. Because with communication studies, I didn't have to take too many accounting or economics classes, you know, just the intros and the least with my MBA I have to dive deep in both of those, which I knew would be very helpful as I start my business.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Okay, so that's interesting because it sounds like, at least what I heard is that you studied communication studies and you already had an idea or maybe you already had a business at the time. I would love for you to clarify where you were in your entrepreneurship journey when you were thinking about a master's degree in MBA in particular.

And [00:05:00] I also wanted you to share a little bit more about the things that you were considering, like questions that maybe you were asking yourself to figure out if it was the right next step or what came up for you as you were making that decision?

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: So when I was an undergrad, I was studying at San Francisco State and I was getting my bachelor's in communication studies When I was there. I wasn't a freelancer, I didn't have my business yet. I was working nonprofit. Well, first I had internships in media, ' cause that was the career I wanted to go into, media, reporting, journalism. But I graduated right at the tail end of the recession, so the economy was still rebuilding and a lot of journalism jobs were just being cut. Even at my school, like the journalism program was impacted, meaning like it was harder to double major in that. So I just minored in journalism. But all my media internships I had, I realized, oh, I could get my [00:06:00] bachelor's in communication studies and still get this job. So I focused on that and then I started working in the nonprofit sector for a few years. It just happened because of the recession. It was the job opportunities that were open and it allowed me to use a lot of communication, a lot of journalism skills that I picked up, and it gave me the space to sort of build out my skillset because if anyone has worked in nonprofit, it's usually all hands on deck. You don't have 10 levels of people telling you how to write a press release. You get to figure it out for yourself and that was something that I was always drawn to. Once I was done with the nonprofit world after five years, I really started looking into grad school programs and I took my time. So for anyone that's listening or watching this, I took my time. When it comes to big decisions, I plan, but I give myself like a [00:07:00] realistic timeline where I started looking at grad schools in 2011, and I didn't start until january, 2014. I went to so many different open houses here in the Bay Area. I wanted to go to the campuses and feel like, can I be here on this campus right now? I'm not in my early twenties anymore. At that time, I was about to get married.

I was getting into my late twenties, early thirties, and I just was like, I'm not trying to have a party school atmosphere or anything like that? So I took my time and then I settled on Mills College, and it was a private university, but when I was starting grad school, I was really thinking of starting a business. That sort of led me to an MBA. The marketing and communications I knew for the business, but I was just like, I really wanna know accounting and have a basic knowledge of strategic planning, operational planning. Things that maybe I won't always do, things that maybe I'll pay other people to do, but I [00:08:00] wanna have a base knowledge of this. So it was, when I was in grad school, I decided to start my first business. It's an online digital magazine. I actually used all my classes because we had to write a strategic plan and operational plan, like all these different plans. And I just wrote these plans in my class with my classmates for my, at that time, fictional business, I didn't have it, but I'm like, let's write it out. And I'm very grateful to have classmates that were just really on board and helped me out with this.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: I am glad to hear a little bit more about your backstory and what you were thinking through and why you decided to go for the MBA. I'm really glad to hear that you said that you took your time. I couldn't agree more with that because it is a big decision and that you had to visit and get a sense of the atmosphere and understand that again, you said at the time you started, you weren't as young. Depending on where you are in your age and stage, it can [00:09:00] feel like a bigger deal to make that kind of time and financial investment to go back to school. And that actually ties to the next question that I'm gonna ask you. But the other thing I wanted to share is that I don't have an MBA, but my husband has an MBA, and I remember when he was in grad school, because I would edit his papers and I would give him feedback, and I would sometimes inspire the topics working on those assignments, like helping him with them, the SWOT analysis, all these other things, and doing it for a fictional business.

And it reminds me of what you said because I shared my ideas with him and his idea was like a hybrid of my business and what he had in mind at the time. So I'm glad that you mentioned that it's a space for you to get access to the knowledge in terms of the areas that you might need extra support in.

So some of the gaps that we may have when we go into entrepreneurship [00:10:00] and that it inspired your business starting an online digital magazine. That's really, really great. So to get to the next question... I get questions from people sometimes who are going back to school later in life, and so they've had an entire career maybe in another industry, or they're at a stage in their lives where they wanna pivot and they wanna start a business and they ask me, Yvette, do you think it's worth it to pursue an MBA? And of course I don't believe in black and white answers, so I never say yes or no. But I would love to hear your take on that, like if someone came to you and they're at that and stage in their life, how should they think about whether an MBA would actually meaningfully benefit them?

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Yes, I get asked that question a good amount. My husband gets asked that question 'cause he also has his MBA. There was a time where we're both in our MBAs, so we did not see each other. I feel like we got married and then we didn't see each other for a year. We [00:11:00] were both so busy. But usually when people come to me and ask that, you know, they're friends, right? And so I know what they do for work and I know if an MBA would be helpful, but I do ask them, do you feel like you're getting, not looked out for promotions or anything like that because you don't have your grad school degree. Is the MBA something that your other colleagues have, or you're starting to see that more and more on maybe job descriptions that you want to apply for. Then yes, the practicality of it, if you're trying to move up and you need this and you're starting to see, you need it. Then of course get it, 'cause, you know, you wanna move up in your career, or are you trying to change careers, and you feel like something's missing, and you don't trust your skillset yet? If you're trying to completely change your career, but you don't know yet if the MBA is needed. I always tell people, I'm like slowly start changing your career and then see if grad school is needed, then see if an MBA is needed, 'cause grad school is [00:12:00] expensive, and when you are older, if you went to undergrad in a traditional age, when you're young, you're not on your parents' insurance anymore probably when you're older. You have kids, you have a car payment, you probably have rent or mortgage. This is going to add to that debt, right? For most of us, very few of us actually have like family money that's gonna pay for grad school. So can you take on that debt, right? And is it needed? Because sometimes people feel like they have to go to grad school, they have to get a MBA or Master's, but it's really because they feel something's missing in their life.

And I'm like, dive a little bit deeper and figure out what is missing. I have some friends that worked in HR and they were debating if they need to get an MBA, but really they just got like a project manager certificate. That helped them move up in their career, right? Costs less, way more doable. So really those would be like the questions I would ask people if they were to bring that up.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Those are really great questions [00:13:00] and I just wanna echo what you said about how sometimes people's immediate go-to is, oh, I'm gonna pivot, so I need to go back to school, or I need to have that extra credential, or I need to be qualified enough. And they assume that extra schooling means meeting the right qualifications.

But I'm in agreement with your insights on how you wanna really assess whether or not it actually makes sense for you, because an extra degree is very expensive. It takes a lot of time, and in many cases it sometimes isn't needed. So, I guess for you, because you have gone through the program, you said your spouse has also gone through a program like this.

What came up for you that stood out to you about your MBA experience? Anything that came up that surprised you? Was there anything that came up where maybe your expectations met or didn't meet reality? I would love to have an insider look on that [00:14:00] experience, and I recognize that not all MBA programs are the same, but I would love to just hear about that part of your experience too.

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Yeah, of course. Okay. So went to Mills College, which is now under Northeastern College or something like that. And Mills College, by the way, is a private college here in Oakland, California. It started off as a all girls school. All girls university for undergrad and they added all these grad school programs, because of that history, it was a smaller university. It is a very beautiful campus. And at that time, that's when I needed, I needed calmness, 'cause my first semester of grad school I was still working in nonprofit sector. So I was actually working while going to school for the first, oh, maybe for the first year actually. So I knew I would be taking later afternoon, evening classes. So I wanted to come onto a campus that was very calming and when you drive up males campus, it's one of those [00:15:00] long drives with a bunch of trees and it's just very like zen. That's what I needed. So I wasn't looking to grad school to like make friends, like I wasn't trying to join a lot of clubs.

I did that in undergrad, and I was part of a lot of boards after undergrad, so I had my network. I was just simply going for the knowledge, and that's what I got. And one of the things I realized after getting my MBA is a lot of things I learned, like the basics, as an entrepreneur that has other entrepreneur friends, but then also as someone that has taught classes. So I teach a lot of online classes whether they're online classes with my business or a nonprofit pays me to teach online classes to small business owners, I learned that there's so many people out there that just started their business, and even if they're like my age, start their business, but they don't have that basic knowledge of just like [00:16:00] accounting, economics, operations that you get in an MBA, and trying to like learn all these things through YouTube or like these boot camps. Those are both great resources, but there's something about just being in a classroom and just getting all of this information and I'm able to then relay all this stuff that I've learned to these small business owners in a way that is digestible for them in their business, right? So that's something that I learned after getting my MBA. My husband, on the other hand, his program, he went to Santa Clara University. Very corporate. So that was another thing that we're both different on. He's on more of a corporate route. He does SaaS finance. He wanted to go to a university that had really strong alumni. Where he could continue if he needed to, move companies, get different jobs, right? So that's something we both realized, when we're looking at universities, we had such different needs. And he also went to a UC. [00:17:00] So we both went to public schools for undergrad, and then we joked that we got all our student loan debt from grad school, 'cause we decided to both choose a private school. I don't know why we decided to do that.

So those were some things that sort of surprised me with my grad school experience of, I got to go into the entrepreneurial world with just more knowledge.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Well, I really appreciate that you made the distinction between your experience and your husband's experience in an MBA program, and I think that distinction is important to recognize. Going back to this idea of not every MBA program is the same, and about doing your research and your homework on each program because what they teach might be different. Who the faculty are, what their specialization and background might be different. How applied those programs are is also different. There's even programs, and again, I'm only familiar because of my husband that aren't MBA, but are MBA adjacent, like the Master of Technology Management [00:18:00] Program at UC Santa Barbara, which my husband also did, where you get a lot of that background knowledge but it's applied in a different space in that case, in the tech world. So that was really, really helpful, just so that if someone is listening and they're thinking about an MBA, they can recognize, okay, what do I actually need out of it? Is it more of a strong network, access to advancing in corporate? Is it more learning the basics for entrepreneurship?

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You already started to answer this question around what you gained in your program. You shared that you learned a lot and so much so that you teach on it to this day. You mentioned accounting [00:20:00] and finance and operations, but what else would you say that you can gain from an MBA program for folks who are still debating?

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: The other thing I gained was I met a lot of interesting people and surprisingly in my university experience, I was one of the younger students. I was still in my early thirties. There were people there in their forties, fifties, sixties, that have worked years in corporate and they weren't just like cogs in the machine. They were very much manager, senior level, and they wanted to change their careers, right? They wanted to change companies.

They realized they have maybe 10, 20 years of working left and they want to make those 10, 20 years like worth it. So what I also learned, just having all these different types of people in the class is not just like the wealth of knowledge that you get in the classroom from these different students but like the wealth of knowledge you get from just corporate life, work life, because you are in this [00:21:00] classroom with people that are in it. And for some of us if you are entrepreneur and maybe you live somewhere where you don't have a lot of entrepreneurial friends, being in this classroom with people that are entrepreneurs, but also people that work corporate, work a 9 to 5, you have these people that you can ask like work questions how to move up in a corporate setting questions, how how to interview. You have all this comradery within your classroom. And there were people that were younger than me that I got to mentor and just sort of like, oh, okay, like after this, how do you get your first job? How do you get that first internship? And things along those lines. So it's like this wealth of like life knowledge that you get in a classroom setting.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: It is helpful to hear some of the benefits. Now, of course, I wanna transition to some of the cons or the challenges or even the drawbacks, and I definitely want you to also address how you navigated the [00:22:00] financial and time related costs of the program, 'cause we mentioned that's why it's such a big deal, that it is a big investment.

So if you can share a little bit more about some of the challenges and also how you specifically dealt with and managed the fact that you went back to a private school. You mentioned debt, so I know that's gonna be part of the picture and what listeners should be thinking about when they're thinking about pros, cons, and whether or not the ROI of an MBA program is worth it for them.

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Yes. Okay. I'm assuming most of your listeners are probably living in the US. This is a very capitalist country. I turned 40 a few months ago, and one of the things I realized is debt is very much a part of being a US citizen, right? And it's all how you manage your debt and making sure you get into debt for reasons that you wanna get into debt. I don't want people to get into debt because they can't pay like a couch. So for grad school, like I mentioned, my husband and I, we [00:23:00] both chose a private school and we both had our undergrad paid for. I paid for my undergrad through grants and just me paying it off. He was lucky enough to have his dad pay for his undergrad, and so we didn't have any more student loan debt. We chose get student loan debt and we went with private school. I think going back to it, and I have nieces and nephews that are 16, 18, 21, if they were to go to grad school, I was like, probably go more a public school route.

That would be one thing I do regret because I'm still paying it off. And because it's life and I had other things I wanted to pay off and, you know, your credit cards, I'm gonna get really into the weeds here, y'all like, because #oldersistervibe. You know, your credit cards hit your credit score more than student loan debt does. If you have both, you wanna address the credit cards first, right? So the student loan debt is gonna follow me for a few more years and it is what it is, right? It's like, okay, this is something I pay for. I don't have a lot more debt after that.

[00:24:00] So I was okay with it. Time-wise, like I mentioned, my husband and I, we got married summer of 2013. He was right in the middle of grad school, and I was gonna start January 2014. So for the first year of our marriage... granted by the time we got married, we've been together for seven years. We saw each other super early in the morning and in the evening. You have to make this mental choice that now you're gonna add this thing, school, and it's going to be the thing that takes up a lot of your time, right? Not just your classes, but remember like if you went to undergrad, which most of you probably did, if you're thinking grad school, you have study sessions, group projects, homework. So you have to figure out like, how do I work that into my life, right? Is this something I'm gonna do every evening? Am I gonna have to dedicate one weekend day a week for the next year, two years, three years? This is something that [00:25:00] you have to be very mindful of, can I give up some of my lifetime right now? For most of us, I think the earlier the better for grad school because the later you wait, you have just more responsibilities. But we have other friends that went to grad school, one of my husband's classmates, him and his wife. They had two kids, ended up with three. They both wanted to go to grad school.

They both were working full-time, so they decided he would go to grad school first, and he was still working part-time, going to school, and she did most of the caregiving at home. Once he was done, they flipped it. He now does most of the caregiving and she went to grad school 'cause their kids were young at the time and they realized one of us has to be here, right? That was probably a conversation they had of, all right, for the next three years, you're gonna do most of the soccer drop offs. You're gonna do most of the doctor's appointments while I focus on this, and then vice versa. So with my husband and I, we had this [00:26:00] conversation like alright we're gonna be really easy with each other. We're not gonna do a lot of romantic big things for the next year, right? Because we're tired, and he worked full time while getting his MBA. I worked full-time for the first year and then I realized to give myself less debt if I just go completely full-time and didn't work for the second year, that's a lot better than still working full-time and then continuing to do school part-time for like the next two, three years.

So I was just like, lemme just focus on this. And then for some MBA programs, they're very intense and you could get it done in a year. So if you know you could give up pretty much your whole life for one year, then do it. Stanford was like that, and I went to an open house, I ended up not applying because the students looked so tired and so miserable, and I was like, Nope, not doing that. I just got married. I'm also very close with my friends. I'm very close with my family. I like having [00:27:00] a life. I wanna be able to have like wine time with my girlfriends at least once a month or something. I can't do this very intense program, but maybe some of your listeners can. They could put everything aside and just get it done in a year.

I would say, when you're looking at programs, like how much of your time are you willing to give up and then the return on investment, both for my husband and I, we feel like, yeah, the debt, sort of sucks, let's be honest. But the friends we've made, job opportunities that have come about and the knowledge we got was totally worth it. If I didn't get my MBA, I wouldn't be able to teach classes that I get paid for. You know what I mean? It helped with that and helped build my businesses with my husband, his MBA, he didn't necessarily need the classes to do his work. Some of the people in his field actually get CPAs, but he didn't wanna do straight accounting. He wanted do strategic finance. But the alumni he met, the classmates he's had, has [00:28:00] helped get the next job and then the next job, it's like just build out his network. And so again, it's like where are you in your career? Where do you live? And where are you in your life? Can you give up certain time? So I hope I answered your question.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: No, you definitely answered the question in detail, and I love that you were sharing with that big sister perspective of like, you know what? Let me keep it real. Let me tell you. It is a huge financial sacrifice. You will take on debt for an MBA program. For most people, that's the case. It sucks. And at the same time, here's what I would've done in another scenario, like encouraging the public route and here's in what ways it paid off, and also it's not just a financial sacrifice, it's also a big time sacrifice and helping the listeners to consider where they are in their life, with their family, and [00:29:00] really offering the holistic perspective of how does this play out with what you have going on in your circumstances? Do you have support?

Are you willing to make some sacrifices or give up your life for a year if it's an intensive program? All of that is really helpful to understand and to think through for yourself and for a listener right now who might be on the fence about pursuing an MBA, I would love for you to share a piece of advice that you would offer them. Again, bringing back your big sister hat. What can you offer them in terms of advice as they make this decision for themselves? Anything else that comes to mind?

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Yeah. Don't let the naysayers affect your decision. I come from a very large family. Most of my family is supportive, but there are always gonna be people that are like, is college worth it? And I'm like, why is this a competition?

There's people that do jobs that need degrees and there's people that have jobs that don't need degrees. I don't know why we have to compete with [00:30:00] each other, but I feel like this decision has to be your decision. There's going to always be people that tell you an MBA isn't worth it. NBA is worth it.

I mean, people say about everything. You know, like certain body wash is better than another body wash, right? You could Google over and over again is the MBA worth it, and you will get so many different answers. But you know in your gut and your intuition, if it's worth it for you. And if it is, go for it. If it's not, that doesn't mean you're less intellegent, less qualified for the next role. It's just not the thing that you want to do at this moment, and you maybe don't need it for your job, but if it's something you truly want to do, then go for it. I know we're living in a time where certain people in this country that are leaders, are really making education seem like the dumbest thing to do. Getting higher education is the dumbest thing to do, [00:31:00] I feel like as a woman, and as a woman of color, it's still such a strong asset because so many things are stacked against us. So you wanna have so many tools in your bag to use so you can move up in your career, maybe help your family out more financially. So again, if it's worth it for you and you feel like you want to do it, then do it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Thank you for that. Just to wrap things up, was there any other question you were hoping I would ask you? And if not, please let us know how our audience can reach you and learn more about your work.

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: So the question that I thought maybe you could ask is like what type of MBA program we did? Because there's a lot of options out there where you could just do a straight MBA, you could do an MBA with a law degree adjacent to it. There's also some that maybe have like a Master's in fine arts adjusted [00:32:00] to it.

So figuring out which one works best for you and sometimes if that's the case, it may take a little bit longer. You may have to do like an extra year or so. I know the ones with the law degree doesn't necessarily have a law degree. Like you can't be a lawyer as well, but you get like a almost like corporate law, right?

And so that might be beneficial for some of y'all, especially if you are trying to either start your own business or whatever company you work for. It would be better for you to have some understanding of corporate law.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Well thank you Nicole. Okay, so last, last question is just for folks who want to learn more about you and your work, how can they reach you and learn more?

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Yes, they can reach me multiple ways. You could find me at Ala Mode Branding. So that's either alamodebranding on Instagram, YouTube, our website. If you wanna learn more about me you could just go to justnicoleco and that's my [00:33:00] website. That's also my Instagram and YouTube. And so for my personal brand, I'm traveling a lot for the next few months. I've been doing a year abroad. So if that's interest, you feel free to join me there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: I love that. I love that. And I'm sure there will be folks who will be really curious to hear more about your year abroad and this was really great. Thank you so much, Nicole, for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience with us. I know it's gonna help a lot of our listeners out. So thank you once again.

It's been such a great time chatting with you. So yes, we'll definitely stay in touch.

Nicole Moreno-Deinzer: Thank you. I really enjoyed this.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: I've very much appreciated Nicole's take on the pros and cons of pursuing an MBA. One of the biggest takeaways for me is that an MBA is not a default next step. It's a decision that needs to be seriously considered in relation to your specific goals, your current stage of life, and what you actually need to [00:34:00] advance your career.

Another key insight is that the benefits go beyond what you learn in coursework. The community, the exposure to different career paths, and the access to knowledge that many people try to piece together on their own, can be incredibly valuable if and when you find the right program. At the same time, Nicole kept it real about the financial investment, student loan burdens, and the time commitment.

This is a big decision that affects your daily life, your relationships, and your long-term financial picture. So as you reflect on this episode, I want you to consider, what do you actually need right now to advance in your career or in your business if you are considering entrepreneurship? And does pursuing another degree support that need? Or is there another pathway that could still get you there without taking on the same level of time and [00:35:00] financial investment?

Take your time with those questions and please reach out if you found this episode helpful. That's it for today. And as always, I'll talk to you all next time.

Thanks so much for listening. If you liked what you heard, here are three ways you can support the show. The first is to make sure you're subscribed and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. The second way is to get your copy of my free resource kit linked in my show notes. This kit includes tools, worksheets, and curated podcast playlists to guide you through applying to and navigating grad school.

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