224: Doing a PhD as a Wife and Mama of Three with Dr. Michelle Gibbs

224: Doing a PhD as a Wife and Mama of Three with Dr. Michelle Gibbs


In this episode Dr. Michelle Gibbs shares her journey completing a PhD as a wife and mama of three children. Dr. Michelle supports other mamas doing PhDs and helps them to navigate the juggle-struggle purposefully, so they can reach their life and academic goals without sacrificing what matters!

She discusses the isolation and challenges she faced throughout her doctoral program, her non-negotiables for preserving family time, the importance of support systems, and her motivation to eventually create communities to support other “scholarly mamas” navigating academia. If you’re a mama or parenting student in grad school, you’ll want to listen to this episode to gain some encouragement and motivation.

You can connect with Dr. Michelle on social media via mrsmummyphd.com and Instagram (@mrsmummyphd).

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224: Doing a PhD as a Wife and Mama of Three with Dr. Michelle Gibbs


Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: [00:00:00] Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring Podcast. This is your host Dr. Yvette and today we have a special guest who's going to be talking to us all about how she did her PhD as a wife and mama of not one or two but Three kids, our guests. Yes, I know. Yeah, definitely. We need to sigh there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: But our guest is Dr. Michelle Gibbs. Dr. Michelle is the founder and CEO of Miss Mummy PhD, Scholarly Mamas and Doodle Dozen. She supports other mamas doing PhDs and helps them to navigate the juggle struggle purposefully. So that they can reach their life and academic goals without sacrificing what matters a fun fact about her is that while she completed her undergraduate degree in the US, she actually completed all of her postgraduate degrees in the UK.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So I'm excited to hear a little bit more about that too. It's so [00:01:00] great to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast, Michelle, Dr. Michelle, Michelle

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: is fine. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I know that we've been kind of looking forward to this moment for a long time and it's so nice to be able to be here and to talk to your audience and let them sort of have a little glimmer into what we do as PhD Mamas.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So I'm really, really happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Of course,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: it's so funny because the folks listening don't realize that it's been many months since we've been trying to schedule back and forth to get this recording done. And I'm so glad that we were able to do it now, now that you're officially a doctor and that you can really tell us a little bit more about your trajectory.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So if you're comfortable, I'd love for you to get us started by saying a little bit more about who you are, what you do, and a little bit about how you arrived. Where you are at now. Yeah. [00:02:00]

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Wow. Okay. So where do I start? Oh my goodness. So I am originally from Barbados and I, we live in the UK at the moment, but I've also lived in the US.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So I did my undergraduate degree over there. I am a mum of three. I did my PhD. I began my PhD as a mum of one. And then had our second son in the middle of that and then our third in the middle of that as well. And so I went from being a mum of one to a mum of three during my PhD. And I'm married to my high school sweetheart.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: We've been married over 17 years and yeah, it's just been a really, really fun. journey to kind of evolve as a person and as a couple together. I am a dietitian by a professional background. And so my PhD is in nutritional sciences and I, um, you know, my, my research focuses around dietetic consultations, [00:03:00] clinical communication, and oral nutritional support interventions.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So, that's my kind of professional interest. But, you know, aside of all of that, I have a real passion for inspiring mamas who are on this journey because I've been there, I've done it somehow. And, you know, I really, really want to let mamas know that just because you're a mother doesn't mean that you can't achieve your goals.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And just because, you know, you are pursuing goals doesn't mean that your family doesn't come first. And so it's kind of blending those two and blending perhaps even other hats that we may wear as, as scholarly mamas. So that's a little bit about kind of, You know, where I began like I said, I did my first degree in the US and then we moved back to the UK and we've been here building our family, building our careers, you know, doing all of that good stuff.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So, [00:04:00] yeah, it's been a really lovely journey, but they've been some hardships and some challenges as well. You know, one thing you don't want to do to kind of make it seem like it was this kind of. Walk in the park, easy ride. It definitely was not that for me. Not that. Nothing about my PhD was, was easy. But you know, you kind of find your stride after a while and I feel like I've, I've done that and this is why I'm so passionate to help other mamas who are, you know, in that exact position and just feeling completely overwhelmed, completely like, you know, on the verge of quitting.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And You know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with quitting because I think sometimes, you know, that's necessary in some cases, kind of know what's right for you. But I think that if you are feeling that way because you feel alone or you feel isolated, then it's really important to surround yourself with people who can show you what's possible.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And that's kind of what I hope to do to inspire and show people what's possible. [00:05:00] You

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: are bringing you're bringing so many thoughts and memories back into my head from myself because of some of some of the overlap. so You mentioned that you've been married for 17 years now. I just had my 15 year wedding anniversary a week ago.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Thank you. And during our anniversary dinner, my husband was telling me. He was like, wow, we've come so far. And I'm like, yeah, we have. And I have a terrible memory, by the way, folks that know me, you know, terrible memory, terrible brain fog. So he was telling me, he's like, remember when you were in graduate school, you had just had Emmy, that's my eldest son.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: And you were really, really struggling with depression and really close to quitting your program. And I told him, wait, what? I was going to quit. I remember struggling. I remember struggling with postpartum depression that I will never forget. I just, I did not remember [00:06:00] seriously considering quitting my program, but he did.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: And he was like, yes, you were so close. And this is going into the details. And you know what, sometimes like looking back at an experience, like in my experience, also a mama in graduate school you can say it was hard. I went through it and you can, you know, you can overcome it too, but sometimes we forget the details of that and how hard it can be.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So I guess what I wanted to ask you was, You know, what were some of your challenges because, you know, not all challenges are the same across moms and parenting students alike. So, if whatever you're comfortable sharing about, you know, some of, some of the challenges that came up for you during your, your journey, your doctoral journey.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Yeah, there's quite, there are quite a few. I think for one, I felt really, really isolated. I felt like, you know, when I think about my non PhD friends, they didn't really understand the [00:07:00] PhD journey and the struggles of that. And, you know, what all of that, all of what that entails. And then The colleagues that I interacted with in my PhD, who were, many of them were not actually parents, they didn't understand what that journey was like.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And so I just found myself in this strange middle where I didn't feel like I belonged anywhere. It's like, where do I go for support? Where do I fit, you know, in all of this? Because, you know, it's like, I'm working on my PhD and like, I've Nobody expects me to be thinking about my kids or thinking about all the things that come with having to manage your home and a family and everything.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And I'm with my non PhD friends and they don't have a clue what it's like to have to juggle a PhD and The deadlines and the data collection and the analysis and all of that and, you [00:08:00] know, and it was just, it just felt like I didn't really fit anywhere. And so that was a huge, huge struggle for me. I think the other thing is that because I did my PhD part time.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: The length of time sustaining the motivation. It took me over eight years to finish my PhD and to sustain the motivation over that very lengthy period of time was a real struggle as well because you just weren't, you know, you just weren't seeing the progress. I just was not feeling like I was making enough progress and especially, especially coming back to my PhD after a period of maternity leave.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: You know what that's like, you know, that's when the kids are starting to interact with the world and catching every illness and bringing it home. And, oh my goodness, there were so many times where I had sickness, I had sick kids. And you just start to question, like, should I even be [00:09:00] doing this PhD right now?

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Should I just put this off for a couple of years while I kind of, you know, focus on. Just dealing with my family and my kids and everything. So that was a huge challenge, you know, just sustaining that motivation for such a long period and then dealing with all of the, you know, the challenges that come with motherhood.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And again, just the isolation and just so many times you talk about your husband saying that he remembers a time that you wanted to quit. My husband would say the exact same thing. He's, there were so many times where I literally planned to quit. It wasn't just I thought about it. I actually planned. I was just thinking, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: I'm going to just let my supervisors know that this isn't really working out and I'm going to have to just take a step back from this PhD. You know, I'll pursue this and that other career option. You know, I don't really need the PhD after all. And you just have all these thoughts [00:10:00] about, you know, quitting.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And it's kind of you need those people around you to remind you of what your goals were to remind you of what you're capable of and actually to understand whether this is actually a need to quit or whether this is just just overwhelm and just needing strategies to kind of work through that. So, so many challenges, but you know, you can look back on it now and think, actually, you know, I made it through that and I didn't do it.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: In a quote unquote traditional way, um, it took me a really long time, but I've done it and I've done it and I feel like I can look back and be proud of how I've done it. You know, I haven't sacrificed my family. I haven't sacrificed myself, but I've done it in a way that worked for me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: You just said that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: You did this without sacrificing your family. And I feel like a lot of people think about that. Like I have to make this choice between one or the other. And actually before talking about even that, I'm curious what were some of your [00:11:00] non negotiables, you know, what were some of the things that you were like, I refuse to, you know, sacrifice X, even you said sacrifice your family, but like, if you could maybe expand on some of your non negotiables that perhaps helped you in.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Completing your PhD down to the end, you know, even though you said you, it may have taken you longer, which actually is very true for a lot of folks. A lot. I know I work with a lot of mothers and parenting students and I know that their timeline is just different. Yeah, it may take a little longer, but it's, it's their timeline.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So in your case, yeah. What were your non negotiables that you set for yourself to help you be

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: successful? So one of my non negotiables was working on the weekend. I just did not do it. I refused to do it. I mean, there were a couple of times where they were absolutely [00:12:00] extenuating circumstances, and I might have had to do like a couple of hours, but those were so rare, I don't even remember them.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Because for me, it was You know, I'm going to navigate this during the week and that meant sometimes waking up early. So I would wake up earlier than the kids where it was nice and quiet at home and I would have a couple of hours to work without interruption. I'm not really a night person. I'm definitely more of a morning person.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So that was a bit easier for me. That's something that I've actually done since I was in secondary school. You know, I used to wake up early and get some work done. So it wasn't that hard to do that. But that allowed me to not have to work on the weekend. So the weekend, I could completely forget about my PhD and just enjoy time with my family.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And I think that was really, really important. Another non negotiable for me was during my maternity leave. I did not work on my PhD. I know so many people who said they've like, you know, Oh, this kind of done a couple months of [00:13:00] work once I've, you know, gotten into the swing of motherhood. I did not do any PhD work during my maternity periods.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: I just focused on healing. You know, I had cesarean sections as well. So there was, you know, quite a lengthy healing process. I just, I just focused on that and just focused on getting myself, you know, mentally through those early. childhood motherhood months. And so, um, yeah, there was no work during the maternity period.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And also, you know, there were times where I had to say no to things that would look nice on the CV, but actually they weren't feasible for me in terms of like logistically feasible with young kids or I was, you know, maybe if I was breastfeeding or something like those were the times where I thought, you know what, I'm going to choose what is practical for me, what's doable, what's achievable and not necessarily worry about the CV right now, just kind of focus on [00:14:00] on myself and looking after myself.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And so yeah. Yeah, so those were some of the things that for me were not, not negotiable, you know, I was not going to sacrifice my own well being and sort of my, my physical or mental health or sacrifice time, quality time that I could be spending with my family.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: That's really great that you are very clear about not your non negotiables because I know that that's not always the case for everybody.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Sometimes folks want, try to be the super person, super woman and try to do it all. And you knew that you needed to take care of yourself. I'm curious too because We all need support in our doctoral journey, but what kind of support did you receive? I know you definitely got support from your husband because you mentioned being a wife, but also did you have any other support systems, you know, whether it was through perhaps faculty or mentors or peers or friends, or [00:15:00] how did you get support to make sure that you were okay?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: In addition to like the non negotiables, but support from others too, what, what, what did that look like for

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: you? So, I'm really grateful for the supervisors that I had. I know some people have really challenging relationships with Supervisors or advisors, depending on where you are. I had a really, really good supervision team and they really got my journey.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: They really understood the challenges I was facing. I felt like they gave me a lot of grace as well. And that. Really helped me to be able to give myself grace because they understood like, you know, one of my supervisors was a mom herself and she understood the challenges that came with that. And so I think that that was number one, you know, one of my, um, one of the things I'm most grateful for in my PhD journey, really having a [00:16:00] supportive supervisor.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: I also had. access to coaches during my PhD journey through my university. And so I did tap into that resource a couple of times. What did

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: that look like? I don't think that's the norm for everybody in their program. So can you say a little bit more about that?

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Yeah, so It was, it was more focused on sort of my, my goals, my, my post PhD goals, but being able to talk through that with someone who, you know, had a kind of objective perspective because they weren't my supervisor.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: It was really nice to have that and it was free, so I didn't have to pay for it. But. It allowed me to explore options, it allowed me to, you know plan and think through how am I going to get through this, this particular hurdle that I'm feeling right now in my PhD journey I'm experiencing right now, how am I how can I put things in place to make sure that I [00:17:00] actually reach my goals?

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And so having that accountability, I think, of course, your supervisor, you're accountable to your supervisor as well. But having that external accountability really helped me to stay motivated, but also to put plans in place, you know, to support me in. reaching my goals, like, you know, what I want to achieve in the next few months.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Do I need to do any sort of training courses that may help me build the skills that I want, you know what's my timeline? How am I doing with my timeline? Do I need to revise it? So things like that really helped. And I did tap into that resource because again, it was free and it was accessible and available.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And I thought, you know, I'm going to try this. And it really really, really helped. So it was more of a, like a career. coach. But that was really nice to have. Also my friends and my family, obviously my husband, like you said, he's been like my pillar of support. You know, that shoulder to cry on when I felt like giving up [00:18:00] and might have some really, really close friends who know as well what the struggle has been like.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: They haven't done PhDs themselves, but they know me and they know you know, the, the, the goals that I had and I've shared those with them. So. You know, they've been just a really, really nice resource and kind of village around me to kind of support me through. And also I am Christian and so we had a church family as well that helped me to kind of remember the reason why I'm doing this and like, you know, keep that perspective at all times because You know, it's easy to kind of get caught up in the stress of it all and just remembering that you're here for a purpose.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And, you know, it may seem hard right now, but God will bring you through this period as well, this season as well. So that was also helpful. So, yeah, I've had a, a number of people in various capacities, but all, you know, offering different types of [00:19:00] support. And that's kind of, I think what was really key to, to my success.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And it

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: sounds like you were open to receiving the support too, which is also really good because so many, so many of us, Mamas and Women Identified folks like have been socialized to, to be the ones offering the support and not always receiving it. So sometimes it can be hard to ask for help and to accept it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So I think it's so wonderful that you had. you know, this wide range of different support systems, whether it was family, friends, this career slash academic coaches, your supervisor or advisor. That's really, really wonderful. I wonder, I can imagine that all of this kind of at some point led to you realizing that you too wanted to support scholarly mamas.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So can you say a little bit more about How you arrived at that point, like at what point in your journey did you say, Oh, I think I want to support others to along, [00:20:00] along my, along my path, but along their path as they, they to pursue the scholarly mama trajectory.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Yeah, so just before. This is something that's been on my heart for a long time because I.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Because of the isolation that I felt, I kind of thought, goodness, there must be so many other mamas in this same position, just feeling, like, alone, just feeling, like, Nobody understands what the struggle is like. And so it's been on my heart for a long time, but I was such an introverted person that I just couldn't bring myself to put myself out there.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: I didn't even have a social media account. I cannot picture

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: this.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Yeah, I didn't even have social media accounts like personal accounts because I was kind of just, you know, I was kind of just kind of going about my journey and feeling like, you know, [00:21:00] yeah, just not putting myself out there. And... Of course, then we had the pandemic and that threw, you know, a whirlwind into everybody's journeys and I had to take a period of interruption from my PhD and, you know, I was homeschooling the boys and, you know, just kind of adapting to.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: To this strange normal that we all kind of had to adapt to and just feeling like, you know, time is really short tomorrow is not promised. And this idea that's been on my heart for such a long time, I need to do something about it. I need to actually put myself out there. I think I'd already created my accounts, but I hadn't actually been.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So I started to really share, really put myself out there and realize that there were so many people who were struggling with, you know, doing a PhD and, and wearing the hats that we [00:22:00] wear as mamas. And also at the same time, Homeschooling the boys really made me tap into my creative side, and that's where Doodle Dozen came in, because I thought, you know what, we're all at home, we're all kind of into this new world of homeschooling, we should, you know, because my son had written he had created this little scrapbook where he was doodling different things that he'd encountered and everything, and he'd been doing it for a few, I would say a few months before the pandemic, and I saw, I said to him, I think we can make a children's story out of this and I really want to write a children's book inspired by your, you know, your, your doodles.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And I did that and we, we kind of embarked on that as a family. We all did our various bits. I did the writing, but they helped me with the concept. Conceiving the ideas and coming up with a brand and all of that. And we just kind of, you know, made it into a picture book series. So that's where Doodle Dozen came in.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So I was in a [00:23:00] completely creative zone of, you know, connecting with other mamas and trying to inspire the kids to be creative and explore their creativity. And so. What that made me realize was that, you know, I am so much more than a PhD. I have so many other interests. I have the desire to help and serve and I just needed to get over myself and put myself out there and just, you know, remember the reason why and, you know, the purpose behind what I was actually doing.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So in terms of scholarly memos, I just felt like, you know, It was an opportunity for me to, you know, relate to and share my experience. And that's kind of all it started out as, you know, sharing my experience and connecting with other mamas. And then I realized, you know, the one struggle that I had, which was the isolation and feeling alone, so many other mamas felt the same way.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And so I thought, [00:24:00] okay, I need to find a way to bring. These mamas together. And that's where the idea for my scholarly mamas community came from. And so it's launching in January on the first, but, you know, up until now, I've just been, you know, conceptualizing all the things I want to share within that program and putting it together and just.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: bringing these mamas together because no scholarly mama should feel the isolation that I felt. No scholarly mama should feel that they are alone in this journey because you're not alone. And there's lots of support out there and I just want to share what little bit I can from my experience and allow others to.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: I feel that safety and that safe space to be able to share theirs as well and we can together empower each other and you know, I've got some really fun resources planned and things. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to scholarly mamas and all that it is [00:25:00] purpose to be and just bringing these mamas together because yeah, there's too much potential for us to not realize that potential.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad that you not only took us through the journey of arriving at coming up with supporting other scholarly mamas and developing a program for it, but then also I'm glad that you mentioned Doodle Dozen and how you gave yourself permission to be creative again and to redefine yourself as someone that is more than just a scholar.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Because that's, that's something that sometimes as someone who has been through a PhD program. People fall into the trap of thinking of their life and their identity as this one thing. As this one singular, I am a scholar, I am an academic. When we are all multifaceted and we all have many different roles that we play in our lives, aspects of our lives.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So I'm glad that you brought attention [00:26:00] to that. I'm thinking right now if, if you could share some other words of advice to my audience. They're primarily first gen, BIPOC, they're undergraduates and graduate students. I know that a good amount of them are also moms or parents themselves. And you know, what would you say to them, especially, specifically the, the mamas and the parents in terms of words of advice to get through the process?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: Because I know. Especially if they're in the middle of a graduate program, things can get really difficult. I have a number of graduate student clients, and this is an especially difficult season right now for everybody, not just that, not just parents and the mamas, but, yeah, what insights, words of advice, or even if you could talk to your former self, like, what would you tell your former self when you were in the thick of it, when you were debating whether or not to stay in your program?

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Yeah. thE first thing I would say is that you are enough [00:27:00] and you have what it takes to see this journey through. It doesn't feel like it at the moment. It doesn't always feel like it. But you do have what it takes to get through this, and it's just about finding the right support systems and strategies to help you, but you do have everything you need to get through this.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So that's the first thing. And then the, you know, I would also. Offer a bit of a warning to avoid three traps. The first trap to avoid is the perfection trap. You know, we, as mamas, we want to do everything. We want to be the perfect mamas, we want to be the perfect scholars, we want to be the perfect wives, we want to be the perfect everything.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And that is just an unrealistic, unattainable standard. And. I think that you know, many PhDs will identify [00:28:00] with that, you know, that tendency of trying to be perfect. But I think as mamas, it's even worse because we also want to be perfect mothers too. So I would say be very careful with the perfection trap and know that a finished PhD is a good enough PhD.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: You don't need to have, you know. Nobel Prize winning PhD. You just need to finish it. And so that's one thing I would say you know, give yourself the grace to be imperfect. It's, you know, it's okay. You can still get through. The other, the other trap I would say to be aware of is the comparison trap.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Because. That's a big one. We are really good at comparing ourselves to people who we don't actually know the full story and not only that but quite often, you know, comparing ourselves to childless colleagues to people who do not have responsibilities that we [00:29:00] have and I think that it's a really It's you have to really be intentional and about this and not comparing yourself to standards that are not realistic for you.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And so I'd say just, you know, run your own race. This is your unique journey. It's different. Your time schedule may be different timescales. Yes. But it doesn't mean that you cannot reach the finish line. It just means that you may not necessarily do it a traditional way. And that's okay. That's totally okay.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So yeah, the perfection trap, the comparison trap, and then the superwoman trap. Oh my goodness. We just want to do all the things for all the people. And it's just... you know, at the expense of ourselves. And so accepting that, you know, you could seek support, like I mentioned to you about the coaches and, you know, other, other avenues of support, what support do [00:30:00] you need?

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Think about that. And then how could you go about seeking that support? It doesn't have to be expensive. You don't have to necessarily, you know, Spend thousands and thousands, but you might be able to get some kind of affordable help or free help even and so I think just letting that superwoman cape fall to the ground and just embrace the fact that you're human and you know it's okay to seek help when needed.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So I'd say you are enough and avoid those three, those three. Traps, I think will be really, really good and also I think when you are first generation. And you don't have a lot of examples of people who have navigated this particular journey successfully, especially as a mama, then seeking examples and mentors to help you through people that you can, [00:31:00] that you can identify with people that you can relate to their story and their journey.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And just, you know, really. not necessarily comparing yourself because that's definitely not what you want to do, but use that as inspiration for what's possible for you and use it as, you know, inspiration and motivation. Actually, you know what? That person did it. My journey may look different. If they can do it, then I can do it.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: I may have to do it a different way, but I can do it. And so just using that as the inspiration for yourself to move forward in faith and know that you can do this. You can absolutely do this. I couldn't

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: have said it any better. I love the three, the three things to avoid, especially it's like, okay, so don't be overly perfectionist.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: I'm a perfectionist myself. So that's a good one for me to remind myself all the time. And then the comparison trap. And then what was the last one? Superwoman. Oh, [00:32:00] the superwoman. Oh, yes. So very, very good words of advice, things not to do. Also, I'm, are there any other closing words? We're getting close to wrapping up.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So anything else that you wanted to say or mention or shout out? And if not, I would love for you to tell us where folks can reach you, how folks can find you, how folks can support your work, how folks can buy your children's books, all the things, how they can join your program.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So first of all, I just wanted to say, like, I am so grateful for the opportunity to speak to your audience and to offer them some encouragement, because I think more than anything, what we need on this journey is so much encouragement and motivation to just, you know, keep going.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: It's a long slog sometimes. And it's a hard slog, but you know, just being just Being able to see other people who've done it, I think is, it's just so amazing. You know, I, I definitely looked up to so many people when I [00:33:00] was on my journey. So I'm grateful to be able to be that now and sort of pass that on.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: In terms of where people can find me, I am on mrsmummyphd. com, which is, you know, I'm also on social channels, social media and Instagram at mrsmummyphd. And there I kind of talk a little bit about scholarly mamas, but you can also follow scholarly mamas as well. So that's at scholarly mamas on Instagram and all the places.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: And also in terms of Doodle Dozen, so my children's book series, that's on doodledozen. com. Also, you can follow on socials, which is at Doodle Dozen and yeah, find out everything you want to know about my children's books. And if you've got children age four to eight, then you know, you're in the right place completely.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: So do follow me on all of my different channels and keep up with everything I've got going on. Scholarly Mamas launches on the 1st of April. January, the [00:34:00] doors open on the 1st of January. Doesn't mean you have to join on the 1st of January. You can join after that, but the doors will open then. And yeah, I look forward to seeing lots of mamas doing PhDs inside of scholarly moments.

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: Yay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu: So it was so wonderful having you here today. I want to thank you for sharing space with me, for being a wealth of knowledge and wisdom. I really appreciated having you here today. I'm so glad we made it happen. And I'm excited for what's to come for you. Very, very excited for you. Thank you. I'm

Dr. Michelle Gibbs: so excited to thank you so, so, so much, my lovely.

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