192: Harnessing Intergenerational Power for Career Success with Dr. Luna Muñoz

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette. Today we're gonna be talking about how to get acquainted and harness your intergenerational power for career success. I feel like this is such an interesting topic already.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Our special guest is Dr. Luna Munoz, who is an associate coach for Durham University. Luna was a lecturer in higher education, earning national prizes, and has over 100 publications, including opinions on higher education. She now helps mid career academics to get clarity on career moves while taking a radical compassionate approach. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Luna.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Encantada, thank you.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm excited to have this conversation with you because we've had conversations in the past, and I'm glad that you were willing to come on the show. For folks who don't know about who you are, what you do, and your backstory, I would love for you to get us started that way- by sharing a little bit more about what you do and whatever you're comfortable about your background story and what made you who you are today.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Thank you for having me. I'll keep it brief. My family's from Puerto Rico. My mom and dad were born in Puerto Rico. My dad moved away when he was 11 and went to Harlem- Spanish Harlem in New York. This was the 50s. My dad and my mom met in Puerto Rico in San Juan, when he was going there visiting. He probably was like the coolest older guy. And he's like, I'll take you to New York. So I was born on almost on a hippie commune in Vermont, because he was really into all that kind of free love and drugs and everything like this. Yeah. I think my mom said he took the drugs when she went to the hospital. They were like, here's your painkillers. And he was like, I'll have some of that. But that was like early 70s.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Then we moved around a lot, because my parents were kind of free bodies. We moved to Puerto Rico when I was seven to be with my grandparents and get my mom clean, because she'd been partying a lot. So I was raised by my grandmother and my grandfather for a while. Actually all of me and my cousins throwing chancletas at each other all day long. Then I left when my mom remarried, and we ended up in New York. That's where I did my undergraduate-and went to LA because I thought I'd get into PhD programs. I did not get into the 16 that I applied. The one I got into was Penn State, so went back across the country to Penn State, did not have a good time there at all. My supervisor didn't get tenure. wasn't offered another supervisor. I was told I was being greedy for wanting a supervisor. I was running the lab.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I just this week recorded a podcast on institutional neglect. So it's just wild that you're talking about that, about your advisor not getting tenure, and you not really getting that support, because it's so real. I interrupted you, but I just wanted to say that

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Once I realized a lot later on that that led to me doubling my student loan debt, because you then have living costs- which, when I went to University of New Orleans, my stipend was a lot lower. I'd have full scholarship to go to Penn State where I wouldn't have to do ta or anything, and they let it run out without giving me a supervisor. I then had no more scholarships. So I went to New Orleans. It was a lower stipend. I had to work my butt off to actually be able to live. And then luckily at the end of it, I got a PhD. I really was thinking about- why am I doing this?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But if people are in that space of like why am I doing this? I think do have those conversations with yourself, because I wish that I'd had a little bit more compassion for myself, and not just being like- but Luna. This is the American dream. Your dad didn't graduate high school. This is what you're supposed to do in order to prove that you're not what they say in the UK, like stiving off the system. You know, just living off of benefits- because that's how me and my mom lived for a long time. Especially in New York, where she got a divorce, then there was domestic violence. So we were escapaing that.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I wish I'd had that conversation, but I did not. And I continued on with what people said was the next step, which was you do a postdoc next- even though I had been offered a job in juvenile justice services in New York.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

To change and make the justice system for juveniles more compassionate. But I didn't do that, because they said- you'll never be able to go back to academia ever again. So I went to do my postdoc in Sweden, and then I did my assistant professorship, associate professorship in England. I thought, I'll avoid that whole tenure system. But actually, everywhere I went- it just felt like wherever I went, there was gender inequality, racism.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Or both at the same time. I just didn't really feel like I was able to kind of make it in the system. I was working so hard to bring the students who came from similar- maybe impoverished backgrounds, or working class backgrounds, or who were ethnic minorities in the UK. I worked tirelessly to help them and that was what I was most proud of. And I realized that wasn't being recognized or valued. When I finally came to that realization- well, when I came to that realization, I was also under redundancy threat. So they were saying, we're going to lay you off. Your job is no longer needed- although I was working in health during the pandemic. Your job is no longer needed. We don't need health.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

We're dealing with health. But coincidentally, that happened after I talked to HR about racism. I heard you should not talk to HR about any issues where you don't want to have them defend the organization, because that's really what they're there for. But I've been naive my whole life. Believing in the American dream, believing that if I come to England, maybe things will be different. Another country's probably not misogynistic or racist. No, actually. But at least I get to know that everywhere I go, I can fit in anywhere.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was gonna say- at least I know everywhere I go, I will face similar issues.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yes. I've adapted, right? So wherever I go, I'm like a fish. I can just adapt to this pollution in the water. I've adapted so far.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. Yeah. I know that is a whole other episode talking about your experience with with your former institution. But we won't go into the details. I did have a question, actually, about your experience having been a lecturer, having worked in higher ed, and how- I mean, I guess...I don't want you to...you can share whatever you're comfortable sharing. But how did that shape your understanding of power dynamics in academia? Then because you're here to talk about intergenerational power- there's definitely a relationship there between the power dynamics we experience among institutions, and then taking our power back. Can you share your thoughts around that?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yeah. I mean, my experience as a Latin American across two countries, one which doesn't really know about Latin Americans. I mean, England is not- they're just like, I don't really know. You're just American. Then having lived in the US- the power dynamics are such that, as a woman, I've always been under the pressure to perform duties that are about pastoral care. You know, being compassionate, being empathetic, taking care of the students. Every time I've gone to interviews for lecturing jobs, it's always been like- well, how do you support our students? How will you support our students? And then there's extra pressure on not only office hours, but being there to support them for...Sometimes I'd have meetings with students that were two, three hours, especially during the pandemic, because that's what I felt the pressures were. One of the realities is, when you're looking at for example, the redundancy. I know we're not going to talk about what happened with that. But the people that were saved from their jobs being not needed anymore were the people who were directors of research. But not the equality, diversity chairs. So you can imagine who are the people that are selecting, electing to be in that position - in the equality, diversity position. You can think about who is pressured to do those jobs,.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

For example, I had been in that job. And who's in the director of research positions. You know, the person that was saved, their job was saved, was a white male. There's so much pressure to conform to our gender norms, to our norms of what people believe as like a Caribbean person, for example, and what they should be like. I've had many comments from students like so called Dr. Luna on feedback forms. This impression that, how could you be a real doctor?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

If you come from- if your name is is Luna Munoz. And I think my idea about this intergenerational power, if I can kind of like segue into that. Part of what I came to realize is that I was compliant within this idea of who I am. I took the equality, diversity role. I took on pastoral care. I tried to be more like motherly. I tried to wear more dresses and skirts, because I thought maybe that's how I would get to be liked more. And I was so much about, I was driven by people pleasing and significance and markers of like, I am a good girl. I am the good person for this role. I don't make any waves. And I could do that for a little while.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But sometimes I'd start to make waves. I'd just be like pushing the water and being like, what does that do? Oh, okay. Which gave me ideas that I wasn't gonna fit in long term. But the intergenerational power that I realized that I had was, my dad had already made a big wave while he was alive- the way that he connected with people, and the way that he could read people, and read auras, and understand people's histories and where they were coming from, and be able to help them to kick the habit. I mean, he couldn't do it for himself, but he was able to help people out of their heroin addictions. He was hired by universities to speak as a person with lived experience of addiction, to speak to people about how he has created these clubs where people support each other to quit addiction. So there's that element of it that I realized.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But then I also, on top of that, had another layer of -he probably wasn't paid very much to go to the university to give his absolute knowledge.Then I thought, what knowledge have I been giving to the university that has not been paid for, and that only I could have given to the university. Only I possess that knowledge in the way that I perceive it, and my perception is unique. I've been giving that away, and that has led to some burnout because I've been giving it away. And it's felt frustrating to me to be giving away this special thing, and not be recognized, not get anything back. That's where the realization came from.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm thinking about how there are so many people who are going to listen to this episode and realize, what am I giving away? What are my strengths and my talents that I'm just giving away for free for institutions that take that for granted? Also, they might be thinking - well then, how do I harness intergenerational power? What is my intergenerational power? Maybe can you say a little bit more about what you mean by intergenerational power?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I know that you referencd your dad and the work that he did and his knowledge. But if you were to define it or to describe it in some way, how are you referencing this term or what do you mean by it?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yeah, I mean, I did a lot of research on...obviously, I lived in Puerto Rico for five, six years. But I did a lot of research on what is Puerto Rican history, right? What does it mean to be a boricua? And what is our spiritual history as well as the history you can find in a book or on Wikipedia? I started to learn about the things that I was really passionate about, like our music history. I don't know if anybody has listened to La Brega, but definitely that podcast is amazing. Bad bunny and you know, all that kind of stuff.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But even before that, and where the contribution to jazz and all...so there is a lot of power already that I can tap into. I'm also a professional dancer. So I do that on my free time. And I think that comes from a lot of our salsa and merengue and all that kind of stuff. Once I realized- how do I do salsa? What's special to me in the way that I approach salsa? What's special to me and the way that I approach training somebody new in something whenever I would teach? How did I approach research? What did I do that no one asked me to do? I just kind of designed it myself. It does take a lot of- if you start to look at The Nap Ministry and Tricia Hersey's books on rest.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Rest is resistance, yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Rest is resistance- oh my god, that changed my life. And I think in rest- and even rest could be like...because I think I have trouble resting with my ADHD. Even just crocheting or baking or anything like that is to me restful- or even doing Pilates. In those moments where your brain doesn't have to be thinking about the emails and answering your supervisor or whoever, you get little clarity sparks. That's when I started to realize- oh, when I dance, I feel healed. Then I started to research bomba and how much bomba is resistant. Our folkloric dance is resistance. Capoeira...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

in Brazil is resistance. So it was about...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You're getting into performance studies here. I took some performance based- like performance theory and dance theory courses when I was in graduate school, so you saying this- like Capoeira is resistance, salsa, you know all the different - they really are when you look at history and the roots of them.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yes. Then I connected to the way that I approach those, which was always about connection, contribution. I love sharing ideas with other people, and I realized that's exactly how I do my research. I love connection, collaboration and sharing. And if you follow the way that research is done, it's a lot of- only now are we talking about open science, but it's been quite closed. It's been gatekept.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I'ts been held by lone geniuses. And I started to realize those are not intergenerationally what I subscribe to. I've been trying to fit into it. I've been trying to have a sole authored paper. I've been trying to be first author on so many number of papers. But I realized that was draining me a lot. because I was fighting. I was swimming upstream.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I think if people- like listeners- if you find what's really draining to you, that's probably because it's not aligned with the way that you naturally want to work.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

And I think then you start to realize- and once you start researching some of your history, you start realizing that some of the ways that you work are because of what you've - through osmosis, whether it's through your parents, your grandparents, or I don't know whether there's like a DNA that kind of gives you it. But there is something different and I think it's useful to see where you come from.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

And where these traits come from. In the same way that I like to be accountable compassionately, because I know that I was chasing these markers of success that I was sold by colonialism, capitalism. It's about having compassion that I have been complicit in my own oppression, but it came from decades of being in school and being taught things that came from decades of listening to the media, came from decades of absorbing just do it. All the messages that we are open to as we grow up.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

So it's not about blame- although there are so many people in the system.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

That there is accountability and blame on each of those. But then it's within that opening your eyes, you then are able to kind of go- okay, I can see the bigger picture and how I chose these paths. I now have a commitment- accepting the past and commitment to drive forward.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. When you're talking about intergenerational power, when you were talking about how things get passed down, I'm reminded about how there have been studies that show that trauma gets passed down genetically. And how when we are born, I think it's we have our grandparents, or grandmother's genetics or something like that. Anyway, I clearly do not know the science behind it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But what it also makes me think about is if trauma gets passed down, then power gets passed down as well. That's what I think you're referring to in this case. The other thing it reminded me of- so you're talking about intergenerational power, and I'm trying to remember what you were ...I'm starting to blank out on the second thing. I guess just going back- how that is really important. It's really important to acknowledge the things that make us us and it's part of- oh. I was gonna say that the second thing that came to mind is when you're saying, you need that self compassion. That compassion is key, because we've been taught these things that have been ingrained in us by- like you said- colonization, white supremacy, patriarchy, etc.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was having a meeting with one of my coaches- one my business coaches who focuses on supporting women of color- and she caught me saying something that was self deprecating. And she was encouraging me to think a little bit more about where that came from. Why is it that I have this need to want to do things the perfect way or want to become an expert before I even share with someone else? Where did that come from? How did I get taught that- that you have to do things a certain way. Otherwise, it's not good enough?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I'm like, yes. White supremacy? Yes, colonization. Yes, patriarchy. We can go on and on and on. But if we are more self aware or are able to reflect on that, there's a lot of power in that.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I guess I I am wondering- for folks who are just listening to this and thinking-well, that's nice. But how do I get there? I'm just starting. I'm just started this process of personal growth and getting to know my family lineage and history, and who I am, what my strengths are, what my powers are. What tips or advice would you give them for starting that process, for becoming more self aware and self compassionate and learning more about their powers?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yeah. I love having people take some empowerment words. And words that are descriptive of people- humility, integrity, leadership, curiosity, all these different kinds of words. And giving those words to other people to mark you- like which ones of these really remind you of me, you know? That was the first thing I started to do. I still have the notepad on my phone when people would DM me sometimes. Luna, when I think of you, I think blah, blah, blah, or thanks for being so blah, blah, blah. Or I love that you're whatever. Because I - I don't know if I'm like you in terms of...I used to have a lot of self defeating thoughts and...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I thought I was doing a lot better. Then she caught me and I was like, oh dang.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I probably am the same. What that means is I'm looking for information that validates what I already think, which means I'm looking for information when people say - oh, you did that wrong, Luna. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna save that. I'm gonna tattoo it. Whereas when people are like, oh you're so courageous. I just go uh-huh. Then I have no idea what they said because I don't really pay attention to it. I don't ruminate on it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I ruminate on all the negative stuff.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's true.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I think if we repeat words that people say to us- like now, when people are like, oh Luna, you're so inspirational. I'm really thinking about what that means for me. What does it mean to be inspirational? Or when you say I'm brave, I'm really trying to get my head around that. What do you classify as brave? I'm really trying to bask-inate rather than ruminate.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

You know, bask in it rather than...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that. I'm gonna start using that as the word. Don't ruminate. Bask-inate.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

And also collect it, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Put it in your - whatever you keep. Your journal or whatever. Really try to outline it and give some examples for yourself. Like when somebody says to me- wow, you're so brave Luna. Especially during the redundancy, because I was on the picket line every day. I was on Zoom meetings for all over the country, crying and telling my story so that people would...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

In the media too, right?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

On the media, everywhere. Like the local news- I was like, Danny. Hi, I've got a quote for the local newspaper, the Liverpool Echo. I was like, Danny, come over. It took so much out of me. But it meant with every little bit that I would be in the news or I would come to zoom meetings, it meant that somebody would donate money to our cause. I was the amazing activist. I didn't know I had that in me. But it takes a challenge to understand our strengths as well. So think about these things that people say to you. Ask people - when you think of me, what do you think of? It's harder to know ourselves than other people see us.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes, yes. I mean, that's one of the things that I encourage folks to do when they're trying to identify their strengths is to ask for feedback. Ask others- what do you think of when you think of me? Or what do you think that I'm really good at? I know it can be uncomfortable at first if you're not used to doing it. And like you said, a lot of us will push away the compliments and really focus too much on the critiques or the negative critiques. But it is helpful to think okay, what am I keep hearing over and over and over again? That's definitely something. They're not just making it up.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Exactly, Yeah. Then do the dissection of it- because we dissert...like, if somebody's like, god, you seem really selfish today. I'm dissecting it. I'm like, in what way have I been selfish? Oh, yeah, there's that one time I ate the last piece of pizza. I'll start looking for every single evidence.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Whereas I don't do the same when somebody says, you're such a humorous person or like a fun person. I'm like, oh right, yeah. I've got a hula hoop upstairs and I...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You would. I love it. I haven't touched a hula hoop since I was under 10, probably.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

We need to try this.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

No, because I could never do it.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

The weighted ones- that's what somebody told me. Get a weighted one.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, I've never tried that. That sounds like fun- something to try out.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I hope people will try it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. One thing that I also wanted to hear more about- because you do work with academics, and you are, I believe, a mid career academic coach. You work with mid career professionals, probably professors. I would love to hear more about the ways that you support them, even though my audience is primarily undergraduate and graduate students and recent graduates. I would like for them to be exposed to the world of coaching and what that looks like and the kind of support that they could have access to if this is something that they're interested in.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yeah, definitely. I mean, the reason why I chose the mid career clientele is because there's that long period of conditioning, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Where you are conditioned to believe success comes in one flavor- that you start emulating more, I don't know whether it's masculine energies or something like this. But I definitely felt like- oh, I need to be more assertive. I need to be more powerful, and I need to stop giggling. There was so much that people told me I was too much, even as a PhD student. When I taught my first class and I had an observer- my professor- he was like, stop giggling.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

You seem like you don't know what you're talking about. I was like, oh okay. And it just perpetuated itself that I still remember it today.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

This is like twenty something years later. I think what's helpful with the people that I work with- I do work with some people who are just finishing their PhDs. And usually, those are people who are Latin American or people of color, because I think for them, they've had that conditioning for a long time that they feel- I need to decondition myself from the expectations.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

That the only way to succeed is this. That I'm going to be a failure if I don't do that. I mean, my dad, the reason why he was an addict, was because he was never able to make it as a real man is what he said. Because he never had a job, he was never able to provide for his family. And that's exactly what Latin American men are- I mean, again, misogyny is detrimental for everybody. But he had those expectations of- this is success. He went through school and had already all of that conditioning.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I feel like a lot of my drive of what I love to do is to see people get out of that fog, get out of that conditioning. And like you said- I love the way you said that trauma is in your DNA. But so is this intergenerational power. I mean, I don't like the whole victim mentality idea. I don't think that that's fair to say to people.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But I think that empowerment, and hope, and optimism- I call it weapons grade optimism. Do you know what I mean?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Regardless of all the crap, that there is something that you can do. There's something in your control.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

That's what I love. That's what I loved when I was in academia was seeing students who'd come from mining backgrounds in England, whose parents never went to university. Then now, one of them is working in Parliament.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Which is just amazing. And she said, I wouldn't have been able to do it without you, Luna. That's what I really get a lot of joy from and that's when I feel like I have special abilities to help people with. In terms of doing that work yourself, it's doing the stuff that you're saying. Figuring out what your strengths are. But allowing those strengths to be more than -question what other people have said strengths are. Start to question what other people said success is.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

What is success? Success is the work that you do with making it more inclusive for people who are neurodiverse, people with disabilities, and making that really public and getting it into people's minds in a different way than maybe they were perceiving it before. I think that could be success. Me helping my child, who I learned has a disability, that's what I think success is now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

It's being a mom who now listens- whereas I used to think I have to have all the answers because I'm a parent. I think if you start to outline - what is success for me? And that's gonna take a long time. It's not like, I have this weekend. It does take rest and reimagining, because you're blossoming something new in yourself. That takes time. And it takes water and oxygen and light. If you can do those things for yourself, they'll become more apparent.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But then it's also about connecting with what your skills are, and questioning the binary about whether you're a success or you're a failure. Is that really a binary? There's so many...you know, I grew up knowing that I was bisexual. And now, starting to go- wait. If I'm not bi, I'm not... I'm more than that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I'm not just heterosexual and homosexual. Are there other binaries that I've been living in that I could escape?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

My child is non binary in terms of their gender. So there's so many ways to now rethink- maybe this isn't the way for me. And outlining your own path forward of what you want. If it's not money, then how do you make enough money? How much money do you need? Think about your pension or retirement fund, and then go -okay. How much do I need to live in a place? And backtrack.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Reverse engineer what you need to make that happen, so that we're not always just striving for...because I keep striving.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I see so many people who just strive for more, more, more- until they burn out.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

No. You don't have to just grow exponentially for no reason. It makes sense to figure out- to do that exercise in lifestyle design. Like, what is the ideal life that I can envision for now? You can change it later. And then work backwards from there. It's very helpful.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

We're back to performance, because it's like choreography. There's no work life balance. You're choreographing your life.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm always like- we're choreographing this, or we're curating that, or performing. I can sense my grad school training coming back. Once an academic, always-sort of-an academic, even if it's a recovering academic.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

It's true. There's not really a work life balance. There's a choreography.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

You know, sometimes you're balanced on one foot. But as long as you can do that without falling over or breaking your hip- I'm thinking that's a success.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's so funny.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I think that's the biggest part- and getting around your mindset around success and money, and what's enough for you. I think it's more of that kind of work- as well as your CV, your resume and all that kind of stuff. But that's the little work. It's gaining your confidence and knowing that- I deserve better. Then being able to see that there's an abundance of jobs in a way. Ans I'm interviewing them as much as they're interviewing me. I have the power to walk away and say no. Obviously,I mean, there's times when I haven't been able to say no. You have to pay the bills or you have to eat.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

But I think there is an empowerment in knowing what you want, what kind of lifestyle you want. And being able to make that happen as best as possible. But know your negotiables.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Like being like, I definitely don't want to negotiate on plantain. They need to have that. That's my non negotiable. They have to have plantains around here. But then there's other things I might negotiate on. Like, I might go into work two days a week depending on how far I have to travel. It's really knowing your lifestyle and which ones are non negotiable, which ones are set in stone. This is what I need to actually just thrive and not burn out.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right, yes. I know we are getting close to wrapping up, so I wanted to ask you if you had any other closing words or last words of advice for our listeners who are curious about strengthening or harnessing their intergenerational power? Or just in general, are looking to do this work - this personal growth work.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I think emotions were hard for me. I don't know if they're hard for other people, but I found them really difficult to sit with. I spent a lot of my childhood just - because I had a lot of negative experiences. Putting them on the back burner and repressing them, and being happy go lucky. You're supposed to be chilled out. I had a closet full of emotions while I was trying to look chill, you know? And I think that really- it's informative once you start connecting with your emotions and understanding how you're feeling. And really feel it in your body, and connecting through the breath to your body.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

You start to become more aware of this intergenerational power. You start to become aware of things that are frustrating to you- and whether your stomach is getting tight or your shoulders are getting tight. That is probably telling you that whatever you're doing is outside of alignment with yourself. But more importantly, it'll probably burn you out in the long run.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I think being aware of the things that light us up is great. A lot of people talk about- find your passion.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Find your purpose. But I think also finding your frustration path, because that's gonna tell you what your values are just as much as the things that light you up. Your values are- I'm really angry about, for example, the redundancy, which was unfair and targeted more women and targeted more people who were part of a union- union busting activity. And I realized, that's a values based attack for me. That's my values of integrity. That's my values on equity and fairness. And now I know, going forward, I need to work in a place that's going to honor that. I think becoming aware of your emotions is the most empowering thing for everybody.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's really great. Thank you for that. I am glad that you are reminding folks that there's the two sides or the two pronged approach of identifying your values. You can look to formative positive experiences. And also on the other end, those things that are...anger can be used as a fuel for a lot of things. Sometimes it's a fuel for leading you to identifying a really strong core value. Thank you for that. For folks who really want to connect with you, want to follow up, want to stay in touch- what's the best way for them to reach you?

Dr. Luna Muñoz

I'm on LinkedIn- Luna Munoz. I have a Facebook group which is free for anybody to come on to- the great academic escape. We have a lot of conversations about hobbies and just everything. It's more of the kind of the emotional part of escaping academia.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Just getting clarity. A lot of people stay in there because they just want to get clarity on what they actually want.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that. I'm gonna make sure to add those links to the show notes. And I might join that Facebook group too, because I didn't realize you had it.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Oh my god, did I forgot to tell you?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's okay. Thank you so much, Luna, for coming on here, for sharing your story, your knowledge, your insight, your wisdom, todo. Thank you so much.

Dr. Luna Muñoz

Muchas gracias. I love you. Thank you.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Aw, I love you too.