190: Managing Work Transitions as a Newly Disabled, First-Gen Immigrant with Diana Valdivia

Diana Valdivia

Welcome back, everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your Dra. Yvette. Today I have a returning guest who is here to talk about the process of managing work transitions as a newly disabled first gen immigrant. Our guest is the Diana Valdivia.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

She most identifies as an immigrant woman of color whose immigration status is undocumented. Her experiences have led to organizing within immigrant rights and higher education. She recently retired from student affairs- we'll talk more about that- with her most recent role as the director of undocumented student services at UC Santa Barbara. During this transition, she has been resting, taking time to assess what's next for her, and breaking intergenerational cycles of the immigrant hard working work ethic. She also has a platform called First Gen And, where she shares and uplifts the multi dimensional experiences of first generation immigrants and those of immigrant descendants. Welcome back to the show, Diana.

Diana Valdivia

Thank you so much for having me again. I'm super excited to talk.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm low key excited, and also kind of wondering like, what are we gonna talk about today?

Diana Valdivia

Yes, yes. Good stuff.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

For folks who don't know, Diana is a returning guest. She was previously on the show for episode 102. That was released in November 2021, and we are recording in April 2023. This episode will be released sometime in May or early June 2023. That gives you a little bit of the timeline. For a lot of us a lot has happened between 2021 and now. I would love for you to get us started by sharing a little bit more about who you are for folks who didn't get to catch that episode, and maybe an update. It could be brief information on whatever you're comfortable sharing, and maybe some of the changes that have happened for you since we last spoke.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. So many updates that I think relates to a lot of new things that I've learned in a different way. But a little bit more about me. The bio shares a little bit of who I am. But just to put more context to that, I was born in Mexico, lived in bordertown cities- both in Mexico and then when we moved to San Diego. We lived in San Diego County, grew up undocumented, did both undergrad and graduate programs undocumented. After my master's program, I was burned out. I just did everything in anything that you can think of in undergrad and graduate school. I took a break.

Diana Valdivia

A theme of my life is that I just take breaks. We'll talk a little more about that. But I took a break after my master's program- against sort of the current of everyone graduating and getting jobs. At that time in 2013, I had just gotten DACA right when it came out. So I was, for the first time in my life- of my adult life- able to legally work. Against all that I decided to take a break and did part time organizing in local DACA clinics. Then a year into that, part time temporary job positions to support undocumented students were popping up across the UCs. I was the first coordinator at UC Merced. Two years after that, went to UCSB. That's how we met

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

At UCSB. So I did the for a really long time before April 21, where I decided to be like, peace. I'm retiring from student affairs. That's a little bit more about me. Some updates. One, after I took the break- during that summer. I don't remember if I mentioned this during our last podcast, but during that break, that summer, I started to develop pain in my hands. I used to have it too in grad school, but it was manageable and I was able to get rid of it. But my body was already sort of showing signs of things happening in my body, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

That lasted quite a few months, like maybe six, seven months. I went to the doctor to try to figure out what to do. I did medicine and all that. But I had that happen, and I'm like, okay. I need to take it easy. This is why I took a break, you know, all that. Then the universe was like- here you go, another health issue. In January of last year, I started to have really weird symptoms that I've never, ever in my life experience. Not only that, but it was the most painful pain I've ever had. There's no other way for me to describe it other than the most painful experience physically and I think emotionally in some extent.

Diana Valdivia

But some of the symptoms were like, I started to feel like I was getting sick. And I didn't have COVID. I tested for COVID. I started like I was feeling sick. Then it started also with my feet feeling cold, and there was nothing that I could sort of do to make them feel warm. Those were the symptoms. I'm like, what's going on? Then over the period of one or two weeks, the pain started traveling through my body. That's when it got really bad. At it's worst, it felt like I was being like crushed. There's nothing like nerve pain, I think.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

After experiencing and after knowing what it is, there's nothing like nerve pain, because it just, it was incredibly painful. And scary, because I went to the ER twice. They're like, basically, we don't know what it is, but you're technically fine- an ER perspective, because they're just like, is this an emergency or not? So long story short, around May- after going to the doctor, and this doctor and that test. I did MRI twice I think. You know, just navigating that healthcare system. I was diagnosed with small fiber neuropathy. By May, my symptoms were also a lot better in the larger scheme of things.

Diana Valdivia

But since then, since January, I've been dealing with like 24/7 sensation- like burning sensation, slash it just feels like my feet feel cold all the time. I can go to sleep and I can rest. It's unnecessarily as painful as it was at the beginning. But it is a discomfort that I experience 24/7. So that whole thing literally has changed my life- how I am connected to my body, my relationship with my body. It has been a transformative experience in so many ways. Starting there is very strong, but it's a big update.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

My whole life has changed because of it. Yeah, that's one update. I have more updates, but I wondering if you have any questions about it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm glad that you mentioned it because that is part of the title- being newly disabled. You know, for some of us, we're born with disabilities. Others of us develop our disabilities later on in life. And it's a huge- for those of us where we were not born disabled, it's a huge shift in how you interact with the world and in how you see yourself or identify. There's a huge grieving process too. I didn't include this in my notes or in my questions, but just you mentioning it- it's huge. It's it's a huge shift, and I can relate to you in that respect. I've been chronically ill for over 10 years and I'm still grieving.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, basically- that was one of the reasons in my other update. I started therapy again.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Good.

Diana Valdivia

Around in May- and it was specifically for this. The way that I look at therapy is like it's just a very unique space for me to have my emotions be supported and held and processed. I'm like, okay, this is overwhelming. There's a lot of things that are happening and coming up. I want to be able to have the space to process it. So I started therapy in May of last year. And through that process, I'm grieving. I'm being able to name that this is a grief process and how I relate to my body is different before of how I related- you know, before all this. Shout out to my therapist. I love her. She's like my fourth therapist.

Diana Valdivia

The other reason why I chose her and chose to go back to therapy is because in the past, I haven't really done somatic work. That was another reason why I chose her. I'm having so many issues with my body, so I want to be able to then still relate to my body in a way that feels like I'm honoring my whole self. So some of the experience, I was looking for them. Then my third update was around- I think through this process, I'm still trying to figure out how I build community. So part of my healing process has been able to listen to other folks who have disabilities, who are disabled. That has been really helpful for me.

Diana Valdivia

And the other thing that I also am embracing more- around 2001, I started to embrace more publicly what it meant for me to be queer. That's a whole other episode and a whole other thing, because I'm married to my husband and there's a whole thing of like, you know, people- he's also queer. But people feeling like, are you still queer if you're married to-we're not gonna get into that. The point is that I'm queer. I think part of it for me, I always find comfort in a quote by bell hooks that I'm going to share. Queer as not about who you're having sex with- that can be a dimension of it- but queer as in being about the self that is at odds with everything around it, and has to embed and create and find a place to speak and thrive and to live.

Diana Valdivia

For me, queerness is nuance. For me, queerness is been able to hold an oar in both and multiple things. And to have a disability- not only the one that I'm speaking of, but like other health issues- can be so overwhelming. But queerness allows me to feel all of that, and queerness allows me to be in all of that in a way that I think the quote explains it. That I've embraced, and just anything that has to do with queerness- it just reminds me of my own humanity. So to be able to publicly speak the fact that I'm queer, I'm like, yeah. It's been part of my healing journey.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's beautiful, and that's a beautiful quote. You're reminding me that- I mean, queerness is a positionality, an identity. But it's also a lens and a framework through which you navigate the world, and you're reminding me- because I have several friends who themselves also identify as queer and are in relationships with someone of the opposite sex or married. And it's about them. Like one of my friends recently publicly came out as asexual. It's just like about embracing and opening up and being willing to be your full self.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. But I think that there's not enough conversations about the nuances and the complexities of queerness. And there's so much- the LGBTQIA plus. I'm sure there's many more.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. And I think for me too- I mean, I've been queer my whole life. You know, the more that I sort of started to accept myself as a queer person, the more that I'm like, yeah. This makes sense in terms of like- I've always just questioned things, all the time since I was a kid. And there's something about questioning the world and questioning, like- hm this doesn't make sense. I want to live in a world that does this and does that. There's some queerness attached to it, and that has also just always been part of my life.

Diana Valdivia

Like a random note- when I was five or six, my dad dressed up as Santa. Imagine like five year old, six year old Diana being like, hey, you're wearing Santa clothes. Or no, you're wearing Nike shoes. My dad wears Nike shoes. You know, like, I've just always been this curious person.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

And there's queerness to it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

Curiosity is attached to queerness for me. It has made a lot more sense, like how I grew up and who I am now. And now, sort of being curious about my healing process, being curious about how my relationship to my body is going to evolve- that, I'm embracing as part of this healing process.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When you talk about the shift with becoming newly disabled, but also fully embracing and being out in terms of your queerness- I'm curious if that in any way shifts your understanding of your experience in student affairs and in higher ed? I mean, you are still technically navigating work transitions. So I'm wondering, what the intersections are between those three things- between becoming disabled, being queer, and also leaving student affairs?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think- this isn't necessarily related to the queerness aspect of it, but more around the disability. I think some folks that might be in similar positions go through this. Right after I left UCSB- my first time around- and I was having the issues with my hands, and then other health issues came up. It just, I wonder- how much was this a contribution of the stress at work? And the other thought that I was holding was like, how much did I do to contribute to my health issues? Or like, could I have done better? It's just the ping pong of what ifs. Of like- what if this workplace... just questioning that. Questioning that and myself.

Diana Valdivia

Then I think now, where I'm at, it's more clear to me that work has contributed to health issues, period. How much? I don't know. But I know that the stress of it has contributed to my health issues. I also know most days, that I have done the best for myself to be able to navigate this. So the question of - should I have left early or not doesn't come up as often as it did before. Yeah, so I think that's where I'm at. And then recently, I came back to this position in an interim base, because of the previous person ended up transitioning now. I was like, hey, I'm still available. I don't have a job. I'm happy to help remotely.

Diana Valdivia

So there was an opportunity, or they were hiring again for a new director. And long story short, I decided to apply for the position. Reasons like, oh my God. I can go back and do the work, and that I would be able to hire more people. You know, just many reasons of going back to the job. And then I went through the interview process. I don't think I mentioned this before in the podcast, but there was certain incidents that happen early on when I started just working in student affairs that led me to not feel safe on college campuses. And I would have nightmares from time to time about it. I think there's also the culture and reality of college campuses not being safe for people, right? We live in the US- I mean, even schools.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

They're not safe for people in general. So between the culture and reality that we have of college campuses, and then also me having incidents- like we got some hate emails, because I was working with undocumented students. Part of you is like, okay, well. They're just sending stuff. And then part of you feels like- wait, I'm not safe. There's hate and violence behind these emails. Those were some of the incidents that led me to then have these nightmares. So then I did therapy and I did EMDR to be able to address some of those nightmares. I'm happy to talk about how EMDR has been part of my process in terms of healing. And so I did it recently.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, I would say - at some point, if you can say what EMDR is for folks who are new to it. But sorry, I'll let you finish.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, so I did EMDR to be able to address some of those memories and thoughts and narratives around me not feeling safe on college campuses. So my nightmares, my anxiety and my stress definitely decreased. But then- talk abut listening to your body. I did the interview, and right after that- like a few days after that- I just had back to back nightmares about being on college campuses and not feeling safe. As much as I in the waking world could say that I feel safe, that I'm fine, that I'm great, that I am excited to do this job again. My body's telling me otherwise. My body's telling me it's still feeling some kind of way about this type of work. I decided to withdraw from the job process or the the job search. Because, you know, I was just- yeah, my body and my mind was telling me- I also was highly, like in my tummy. I felt like a knot. Like, literally my gut just fell stressed during that time of like- should I continue the process, should I not?

Diana Valdivia

The minute that I did, the minute that my nightmares stopped. This was a few weeks ago, like two weeks ago. Yeah, the nightmares have stopped again and I feel I feel fine. I feel like I've let go of some of that. And I think my body was trying to tell me, like you're on your healing journey and going back to this probably won't provide the healing that you need. And particularly, you know, besides my body sort of protecting me, protecting my body through the signals. I think now that I also think about it, now having this disability and having all these signals- I'm like, wait, yeah. I need to be able to focus on the disability aspect of my life.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, I want to ask you about the lessons you learned and stepping away not once, but twice. But I also want to mention something that this reminds me of. I have a lot of conversation with folks who are disabled, who are chronically ill, who are neurodivergent. And they'll come to me asking me like, well, what kind of job can I even get?

Diana Valdivia

Oh my god, yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Because we live in such a unhealthy, toxic world and a lot of these systems further replicate that. They're not always the healthiest. They don't always support, or it's not in their best interest to make sure that we're okay. And that's a tough thing to answer, because I wish I could say- oh, I can teach you all these strategies and you'll be fine. I can teach people strategies, but I can't guarantee that they're gonna be fine because I myself was not fine. And I left higher ed too. I just wanted to mention that because I'm thinking about people who are listening to this episode, who are having those questions and concerns and who want to know from your experience- what are the lessons that you learned? Also, how do you think you will take these lessons into whatever you do next?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think one of the biggest lessons is how do I carry the grief that this process has brought? Because the first time that I left, I was sad. I was sad. I was angry. And it was just a lot of grief. Like, oh my God, I'm leaving the job that I love. It's not even the job itself. It's the fact that I had this position to be able to focus on always supporting undocumented people. I'm always going to be rooting for immigrants period. The fact that that was my job and it's my job for a few more weeks. To be able to focus so much on like, I get to create those experiences. I get to hold those spaces for people. It's just joy. And not even just being able to hold space for grief- just being able to hold spaces, create spaces for students to feel more human and be validated of their experiences.

Diana Valdivia

I left that, not only once- twice. And it's sad. It's sad that I don't then get to do this in this capacity. So you know, there's grief and there's grief this second time around. I already cried about it once. I'm probably going to cry one more time- way less than I did the first time. But I think I definitely have learned to honor just emotions in general. But I think there's a sense of grief- not only with having to grieve my process of having this new disability. But having to grieve this transition in the community, because I also enjoy working there. I don't get to work with really nice people. So there's that. I think the other thing that I learned- at one point, I was going to so much doctor's appointments. At one point, it was just like- and this doctor and this doctor and this doctor and this doctor.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So many specialists.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. I remember reading a book about disabled folks. And I just remember being feeling so validated, because they were like, it feels like a full time job - slash sometimes it's a full time job. So I quickly learned that, that sometimes having some of these disabilities, health issues, feels like a full time job. To then figure out- well, what is the job that I can maybe have with some of these disabilities and health issues, when already sometimes having some of these disabilities and health issues feels like a full time job? I don't know the answer to that yet. I don't know the full answer.

Diana Valdivia

I think I know some of the some of the answer- which is, I think it's going to take me a while to go back to a service oriented position and role. Because as much as I love to do that, to hold the space for people, I think that was one of the added- a huge component of my stress, being able to provide that one on one with students. I know that for quite a few next years, I think my next role won't be service oriented. Or it might not be ever again. Last podcast, we talked about the hard working immigrant work ethic. I think so much of that is service oriented. And I just, I can't. I can't go back to the 100% service oriented roles, I think.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's great that you've arrived at that awareness, because not everybody does. And they just kind of keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. With talking about that immigrant hard working work ethic- you're saying breaking these cycles, and then you went back to the interim position. So did you set more boundaries? Or did you feel like okay, I'm gonna come back, but under my terms?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was definitely like on more on my terms. One, we live in a capitalist society, so I'm like, I need a job. So yes, I think I came back more on my terms. I'm also working remotely, so there's an actual physical-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Barrier, yeah.

Diana Valdivia

Barrier. That doesn't mean that it's good fully, because then I'm not able to connect with students in the way that I would want to and they would want to. But to some extent, then, there's a barrier in terms of setting my own boundaries. Yeah, so I think coming back, I came back more in my terms. Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. With you talking about setting the boundaries and setting barriers - the actual like physical barrier of working remotely- I think that's even a big deal that they were willing to offer that, because a lot of higher ed spaces- at least from my awareness- are resistant to that.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That was always one of my struggles. I had to work so hard to get accommodations to work remotely two hours in the morning before I came in in person. But even then it was really, really hard to get any kind of remote work.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. And the thing too is I like- now that I'm more aware of my own health issues and my own disabilities, it's one of those things that like, sadly, you don't gain the awareness until you have it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

Which is not good. Because then I'm like, wait, how are people not talking about this?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But you know what? Yes, yes. This is gonna get me to the next question. Okay. A lot of people are not having this conversation. But there are folks- able bodied folks- many of them who listen to this podcast. Some of them- I know, because they tell me- are faculty and admin. So I'm curious. If you could say something to folks who are still working in higher ed, who have some sort of say in making a change, or being better, or whatever- like being more supportive to these distinct populations that need extra support- whether they're undocumented, whether they're immigrants, whether they're disabled. You name it. What can they do to better support these students?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, I have two things. And one of them is not the most polite one. But you know, sometimes we don't need polite. Sometimes we need the truth, even if it's a little bit hard to say. I think one is just being able to question- why aren't we talking about this more? I think any way that folks can show visibility for support, both for undocumented immigrants and disabled students, the more the merrier. Because if you don't see the possibility of being able to have support, you're then not likely to reach out for that support. That means like, for faculty. It's not just social science majors that should be incorporating issues of disability. I'm sure you can find ways of incorporating that into your lessons, into your lectures and homework.

Diana Valdivia

For staff, again, if you're doing programming, having it then be intersectional, and including some of the folks who are disabled communities. Yeah, so anything with visibility and things like that. The second one- this isn't to scare people. But I think I have other friends who are either dealing with some of these health issues, or I then see them work so hard, that I'm like, I was there. I don't want people to develop health issues because of work.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

You know, I'm 35. I just turned 35 a few months ago. And I think to me, it is very clear that many of us will be disabled because of the society that we live in. Just because you might not be dealing with some of these health issues doesn't mean that then you won't be dealing with some of these health issues in the long run.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You definitely know someone. Everybody knows someone who's disabled, whether you know it or not. I think the last stat I read was that one in four people are disabled and it's the largest marginalized community out there. I too am like- well, why don't we talk about these things? But I am also aware that I myself was not having these conversations when I was able bodied.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, right? You don't then know until like- I think many of us have that experience.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. And I think it's also like how- I was aware, because my brother has a disability. So I was aware of it, but I think it's different. I think it's different when you then are personally- your relationship to your body's changing, how you identify yourself. You know, what kind of experiences are you having? It just- the level of awareness, I think, increases a lot more because then now I'm having it. I think there's also to some level culturally, I think some people who have disabilities might not necessarily see them as disabilities.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes. That's a whole other conversation. Yes, because a lot of folks struggle with internalized ableism. Or they think that my thing is not enough. There's this oppression olympics, disability olympics of like, this is not bad enough. It doesn't impact me enough that I get to call myself disabled- like disabled is a bad word. I've been there. I've been there. So I'm just saying, it's taken me a while to come to terms with identifying as disabled, and realizing that yes. This impacts me enough for for me to consider myself disabled. Because, yeah, I am not the same as I was before.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I also wanted to mention, you make a really good point- going back to how you said, you don't want to scare anyone, but there's gonna be a lot more people who are going to become disabled between now and as the age. I've been trying to have someone come on the podcast, or try to find a guest who can come on the podcast to talk about the lifting of COVID restrictions on campuses and the lifting of vaccine requirements and mask mandates, and how that negatively and substantially impacts the disabled community.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I myself am someone that got way worse- way sicker- after getting COVID. I'm dealing with some long COVID stuff, some neurological stuff. And I know I don't want to get COVID for a second time. So I mask everywhere I go. But I know that a lot of people are no longer masking. They're gathering indoors. They're going to conferences. They're going to these big mass scale events. Like you, I'm thinking a lot more people are gonna get some sort of long term thing or some sort of disability. But it's, I guess, I don't know. I'm just speaking to the choir right now because I'm talking to you.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, yeah. I think one of the things that I talk to my therapist about this is that there's a- to some extent- a universal experience around how we relate to our bodies when they're doing things differently than what we grew up with. That's one of the things that I'm learning. Itt's like,wait. As I age, there's gonna be things that my body- I'm dealing with my body changes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

But this is a universal thing of people aging.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Si.

Diana Valdivia

I'm getting it a lot sooner than I wanted it. But there's a universal experience- so there's that. And then I think too, the other thing that you mentioned in terms of not necessarily seeing yourself as a disabled person. I think I'm in that realm too, from time to time. I think for me, it's like having to figure out - well, is the small fiber neuropathy permanent or not? To what extent does it impact me? Am I still able bodied to some extent. I think it's also valid for some people that are dealing with health issues and disabilities of not being then in the binary of like- am I fully a disabled person?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

Or am I not?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Then there's dynamic disabilities too, you know? So it's like, one moment, I can walk. The next moment, I might need a wheelchair.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. This is why I go back to being queer, because if we lived in these non binary ways of like- you're not sick, you're not healthy. No one is ever 100% healthy, right? So if we live in this nuanced way- which we do.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

And accept that we live in a nuanced way, then I think a lot of us more would lean towards - wait, I'm not 100% healthy all the time.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

And this world oesn't make it available for me to be in my best health.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And a lot of it is relational and has to do with your environment. Because I've heard folks ask- well, would an autistic person still be considered autistic if they lived in an environment where they had their needs accommodated? So that there wasn't a question about it. I think what you're saying reminds me of that. A lot of it is your surroundings, your environment, systemic issues that we can't easily resolve. And sadly, a lot of times it becomes individualized when it's not. Like oh, it's you didn't do enough to take care of your health. You didn't do enough to work on the documentation you need for X, Y and Z. It's your fault- when that's not necessarily the case for most of us.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. Which is why I think- one of the other reasons why I'm constantly rejecting how I think about the hard working immigrant work ethic is because I question then- who benefits from that narrative? And I certainly don't, right? Capitalism does.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

It benefits to be like- yeah, immigrants are hardworking. We can always hire immigrants, because they're always going to work and they have a great work ethic. But with that comes in- overwork, underpay. So who benefits from that? Capitalism. I then question- I don't want to know myself as a person who works so hard.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

That's having to constantly reject that, and knowing that sometimes people don't have a choice.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Diana Valdivia

I've been thinking about what to share in the podcast, and I think, when I was in college, it felt like I needed to do everything and anything just to be considered for positions and sort of to build that stability that I went to college for, and being able to have financial means and all that. Most of your listeners are college students and graduate students, and it's hard for me to think about myself in those experiences and say- well, I'm going to start working less. Because it feels so hard to think about that, right? Because there's articles you need to write. There's a dissertation that needs to get done. There's always more and more to do in order to be able to get some financial means. For many of us, work is tied to our survival- not even thriving, right? It's tied to our survival.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Diana Valdivia

So it's hard to hold that truth of like- I want to question our work ethic around immigrants. And then also have to be like, wait. Some of us have to work hard, and some of us have to work a lot because it is our survival.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Diana Valdivia

It's hard to hold those truths. But we can hold those truths.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's hard, because I'm thinking about how many of us listening right now might be thinking like, yes. I'm going to college or I'm going to grad school. I'm trying to get all these achievements or accolades, or you name them credentials, whatever. So that way they can have more opportunities and be able to one day make an income to do more than just survive. Only to perhaps, arrive and not be 100% happy or make themselves sick in the process. But then at the same time, it's like, okay. I'm learning something different. I'm learning there's a different way of being and doing. I'm still in the thick of it. And I'm still witnessing my parents who are working, probably like back breaking work, or just working tirelessly, who don't ever stop.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Those two things are really, really hard to come to terms with, where you're understanding that you want a different way of life for yourself, but also having to accept that it's not going to be the same for those that came before you. We're getting close to like wrapping up. I want to ask you about the advice that you have for folks who are listening to this. I know - I'm like, I feel like this conversation is a little bit of a serious one. I'm like, oh I don't want them to...this is my tendency. I know it's a coping mechanism of like silver lining, silver linings. That's how I survive. Sometimes I have really hard days and I'm like- but let me think about what is on the other side of things. On the other side of things for listeners, who maybe they themselves are immigrant students, or undocumented students, or disabled, or maybe newly disabled, or struggling with their mental health, or you name it. What advice would you have for them in terms of navigating higher ed and their career, just to ensure their own overall wellness and honoring themselves and their full selves?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, I think there's two things. One- I think this is again, part of like- I mean, I think as you get older, we just get better at listening to yourself. You tune out some of the noises the older you will get. Yeah. So I think honoring yourself. You kind of already said the question, but also the answer. You know?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Not necessarily though. What can that look like when you say, honor yourself? I know it's different for all of us.

Diana Valdivia

And I think it's that. I think it's like however you honor yourself, that's the way to do it. The noises of capitalism, the noises of having to do more and feeling like you have to do more, they get less distracting, I think, the more you practice to honor yourself. Like people talk about meditation as a practice, because it is literally a thing that you have to practice. I think honoring yourself is a practice. You have to do it to keep doing it. Like maybe today, you honor yourself by drinking water, making sure that you're getting your water. As small as that sounds, it's literally something that you do to honor yourself and the needs that you have forthe day.

Diana Valdivia

So the way that I look at how to think about taking care of yourself, I think about it as a practice. If it's a practice, then you just get better at it sometimes, right? Then the other way that I think about it is I think about it as a muscle. So like people work out, right? Sometimes- I don't. But it's like a muscle that you practice. When you're working out, you practice. You do it. You build the muscle. But you also just rest, right? It's a constant thing that you're working on, but also resting. So there's that. Then I think- again, this has to do, at least for me, as I've gotten older, I -along the lines of listening to yourself, I think it gets easier, because you just have evidence aka years. To be like, wait, it has worked out. Somehow it just has.

Diana Valdivia

Like I- in the moments before, where I was like, oh my god. I don't know what to do. I don't know if it's gonna work out. The questioning was just a lot louder. Now it's less, just because I have years of evidence to show that things are gonna figure themselves out. I'm resilient. There's perseverance. I've done things. Just being able to trust yourself and have the evidence to say, you know what? Dissertation, okay yes. I have the evidence that I figure it out. I got myself into grad school. I will figure this out. It might not feel like I'm going to at the moment, but I think it's the thing about maybe -at least for me- it's the thing about getting older. You just have more evidence as you navigate things that you will figure things out, that you can trust yourself, that you can trust other people.

Diana Valdivia

Like who knew that I was gonna come back to UCSB for this amount of time? And to be able to have the financial means at the moment, right? I quit a job without having something lined up because I trusted myself. I trusted community. I trusted a little bit of coincidence that things are gonna work out for themselves. And I am gonna go back to being unemployed. I have a little bit of anxiety about job searching again. But I'm like, wait. I have evidence. I have evidence that I will figure it out, because I have- period. You know?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. Oh my goodness. I got two really, really key things. I think they might even be the quotes that I'm going to share on social media. One thing is honoring yourself is a practice. That is such a good reminder. And just like any practice, like you get better over time. That's a really, really great thing to remember. And then the other thing is to look for the evidence. Look for the evidence that things will work out because they have worked out. That's also really, really great. It's a great mindset shift too, because sometimes, I am a- what's the word? I'm recovering from being overly pessimistic. So for me, I would always find evidence for the worst thing, you know? I would always find evidence for - the world is gonna end. Now on the other side of things, I'm trying to remind myself- actually, there have been some really great things. I have evidence for the opposite as well. And if I focus more on the opposite, eventually I will get there.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you for those two reminders.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. And it's hard to argue with evidence, right? The evidence is there. It's just there. You can't like- oh, it's not there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Are you still here? Are you still alive? Yes? Okay, we're good.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I wanted to ask you one last thing- if there's anything else, any other closing words that you wanted to share?

Diana Valdivia

Not words, recommendations. Part of my healing journey has been focused on listening to a lot of Black feminists, and some health, trauma related books and podcasts. The one that comes to mind is The Myth of Normal by Gabor Mate. His work around how trauma, stress relates to our body and minds and health is like- I just, I listen to anything that he says because his research is just really good. And has then allow me to be validated around how stress is contributing to things. And it's not my fault, that it's larger than me. Then the second one- I haven't read her book, but it's called Rest is Resistance: A Manifesto.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I have. It is so good. One of my BFFs recommended it to me - shout out to Elana. It's so good. Everybody has to read it.

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. It's by the founder of The Nap Ministry. Her name is Tricia Hersey

. I haven't read the book, but I follow her Instagram slash the work that she's doing. I would even just recommend going on a podcast search and putting her name. She's done a couple interviews. That's one of the the interviews that I listened to. She did an interview with the We Can Do Hard Things podcast, and I went to church that day. I was like, oh my god. This is so good. So anything by both of them, or anything by queer, trans, non binary Black folks around rest and healing- just anything. Get your hands on that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I wrote them all down so that I can add them to the show notes, including the podcast episode that Tricia Hersey was on talking about her book. Thank you. I said that was the last question, but this is the real last question. For the folks who really want to stay in touch and connect, what's the best way that they can reach you?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah, Instagram. I'm still trying to figure out my consulting shenanigans, but it is First Gen And at the moment. I'll be doing some- in January, I did a workshop series for a university. So it might look like that, doing some workshop stuff.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Can you say a little bit more about this, about your consulting?

Diana Valdivia

Yeah. I'm still trying to figure it out, but I want to be able to now have more space for people to have conversations about their own unlearning around citizenship. Yeah, so some of those workshops, some of those lectures- invite me, please. I'm happy to come to a university and talk. Then I think the other thing too is around content and creating spaces for us to have conversations about the experiences of being first gen, and focusing on other identities and experiences. That's why I named my First Gen And, because there's so much more to our identities and experiences.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Well, thank you so much for everything that you shared today. The whole time, I was like I feel like you're just preaching to the choir.

Diana Valdivia

I enjoy our conversations. Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I can't help it. I'm so glad that you came back. I'm so glad that you're generous enough to share your experience, your knowledge, your insights with us. I know that a lot of people are going to learn a lot from this episode. So thank you.

Diana Valdivia

Thank you so much for having me again.