187: Weird and Wonderful: How to Embrace Your Neurodivergence with Izzie Chea

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome back, everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette. Today I have a fun and insightful episode all about being weird and wonderful, and how to embrace your neuro divergence. I know I've got a lot of neurodivergent listeners, because y'all reach out to me. I myself am a fellow neurodivergent Latina Chicana. I'm super excited to have our speaker today.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Our guest is Izzie Chea. She is a Dominican, Mexican American creative, educator, storyteller and mental health advocate. After a late diagnosis of ADHD at age 35, she took her content creation talent to Instagram, where she has experienced tremendous growth through reels, expressing incredible relatability and honesty of daily life as a newly diagnosed neurodivergent Latina. She holds a BA and master's degree in psychology and human development, and lives in Houston, Texas with her husband, two boys and a rescue cat and dog who I just found out love to trade beds. Welcome to the podcast, Izzie.

Izzie Chea

Thank you so much. That was a really funny intro.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was just picturing your cat and your dog trading beds- big dog, small bed, little cat, big bed.

Izzie Chea

It's quite funny.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That is weird and wonderful too.

Izzie Chea

Yes, it is. I'm happy to be here.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you. For the folks who are learning or new to your work, I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about who you are, about what you do, and also whatever you're comfortable sharing about your backstory, your background, and how you became who you are today.

Izzie Chea

Okay, great. That's a loaded question.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I know it's a big one. That's why I'm like- it might be longer than half an hour.

Izzie Chea

That's okay. Yes, as Dra. Yvette had said earlier, I am a multi passionate, creative person who happens to be neurodivergent and Latina. I had - like many neurodivergent women- a late diagnosis of ADHD at the age of 35. And a very long and colorful road led to that diagnosis. What initially sparked me seeking out mental health help was a dark and scary period of burnout. At the time, I had just moved my business of being a music educator online as a response to the pandemic. And taking that on fully with a studio of almost 50 students, homeschooling my two boys. My husband being home, since COVID was on a rampage. And just feeling overwhelmed on the daily with normal day to day tasks.

Izzie Chea

I knew that I needed help. Those anxious feelings and depressive episodes were coming more frequently and more strongly. It was just something that I knew that I could not weather it without some extra support. That's what led me to seeking out a diagnosis- not necessarily for ADHD, but more so just mental health support and help through the diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder and mild depression. I was actually sent to an ADHD specialist as a result of anti anxiety medicine not working.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh.

Izzie Chea

Yes, it was it was quite interesting. After speaking with my provider about my experience with the anti anxiety medicine and explaining to her that I did not feel any better, that's when she started to suspect that the root causes of my anxiety s may not be what she initially thought. That's when she started expanding her knowledge and her circle of people that she trusted to refer me to. And I ended up in the care of an ADHD specialist, who through the course of three to four months and a lot of talking and journaling, was able to determine that I was in fact suffering from ADHD inattentive type. That was the root cause of my anxiety and my depression. I knew that was true after finally ending up on medication for ADHD, and my symptoms improving dramatically. That's how I ended up with a diagnosis of ADHD. I was not aware of it at all.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's what I was gonna ask. I was gonna say - did you suspect? Because I think that for some of us, we have a feeling- like something. There's got to be something but we don't know what it is.

Izzie Chea

Right, yeah. You know, we're so used to being tossed aside and told, you must just be anxious. You're just depressed. Try this out. But even after that initial wave of medication for anxiety, it just did not-it did not do anything to reduce those anxious feelings that I was having. After going through that process with my doctor, I had so much learning to do. I get this diagnosis, and I'm like, what? Come again? I had no idea what that even meant. After learning about that, she encouraged me to do some research and some reading.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

The rabbit holes.

Izzie Chea

The rabbit hole opened up and I fell in. And I fell hard in that rabbit hole- enough to make me want to begin documenting my experience as I learned about my neurodivergence. Which ended up creating an Instagram page, which many of you, if you're listening at this point in time, have discovered me at this point. I have a talent for storytelling. I have a talent for taking very large and complicated topics and breaking it down into digestible pieces of information that happens to also be entertaining, in a way that just helps you relate more with who I am as a person.

Izzie Chea

And then almost take me out of the equation and put yourself in, because then you start to see- these symptoms are things that you may be going through, right? You picture yourself dealing with the fact that you have literally walked by a pile of something for three weeks, and it's still there. Every time you walk by that thing, it's still reminding you of it, right? Not remembering to turn in permission slips for your kids' field trips, and then they're frantically asking for those permission slips. And you're just like, I thought I did that already, and it's just sitting over there. The amount of emotional dysregulation that can come into play. I feel like that, in particular, is a topic within the neurodivergent community that symptoms wise, we don't have a lot of information about in the DSM. We don't have emotional regulation as something that's clinically defined as part of this neurodevelopmental disorder. So that opens up even more rabbit hole.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was gonna say - for folks who are not familiar with that term or phrase of emotional regulation versus dysregulation, can you say a little bit more about that?

Izzie Chea

Sure. Emotional regulation is your brain's ability to understand and really see what emotion you're feeling, define it, and then process it in a manner that makes sense to the world around you, society. When we're looking at something like emotional dysregulation, that would be the opposite of it. You experience an emotion. You don't have the words or the processing power to define what it is you're actually feeling, which leads to even more distress about it. And then how you react as a result of those emotions may not be socially acceptable. This type of feeling that you've got- being emotionally dysregulated, being on high alert, feeling overwhelmed quite frequently- and even experiencing emotions like not just sadness or overwhelm. You could be experiencing things like anger, like really big anger outbursts. You could also be experiencing things like euphoria, right? It's dysregulated in a way that it's at an extreme right. And society may or may not understand how you're expressing these things, because it's not something that you would normally see. That's kind of a little mini breakdown of emotional dysregulation. Hopefully, that helped a little.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, it does. I already knew, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the fact that the work that you do with your social media content and storytelling- there's an aspect of it that not only includes sharing more about you and your background and your day to day life, but also the mental health advocacy. Now that I've heard more about your experience with depression and anxiety, and then even hearing more about emotional dysregulation, I would love to hear more about the mental health advocacy part of it. Because when I see the content, I have found myself to also be entertained and also feel seen- even though I don't have ADHD, or I'm not ADHD.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But I am neurodivergent in different ways- highly sensitive, depression, anxiety. And I have an autistic husband and son, so we've got different ways that we all interact with the world. So I can find things that I can relate or that I can see in my own family. I'm wondering- the tie in with the mental health advocacy- why is that so important? And how has this the work on mental health advocacy- what role does it play with how you view your neurodivergence? How do those two kind of connect? You kind of tied it in with your backstory, but I want to hear more about it.

Izzie Chea

Sure, it's a great question and it's so important too. You know, being a Latina myself, being a Latina yourself, we understand how in our particular communities, mental health stigma is massive. And it still affects so many people in across the world today. A lot of the unique views of how being a part of the Latino community plays into that, whether that be through the lack of culturally competent providers, religion, trauma, immigration, racism, and colorism. All of these things sort of take a role in why the cultural stigma exists so strongly, particularly for Latinx.

Izzie Chea

So I've sort of carved my way into this little corner where I have declared that as a neurodivergent Latina myself, I find that the best people that I can help - and help the most deeply and strongly- are the people that I know and love, the culture that I know and I love. By elevating our stories, by educating and learning and speaking and teaching on these things, I find that many, many, many people have found so much value in hearing these stories and understanding why these connections exist. I've given several talks on the link or the intersection between neurodivergence and being Latinx, and why that cultural stigma perpetuates across generations.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I want you to say more.

Izzie Chea

Oh, yeah. I have so much. It's a talk that has been very widely received positively. I even had enough assertiveness or drive to apply, to present, at a national conference for psychology. I didn't get the talk. But at least I had the guts to do it and try, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that.

Izzie Chea

Because these are the things that- there's only so much advocacy you can do on social media, right? There's a limit, and if what I'm saying and my purpose is to make a difference in the lives of BIPOC neuro divergence, especially Latinx, coming from an immigrant family, then I have to put myself out there. I have to stick out my neck, because the people that are relying on me don't have the means to do so. They don't have the platform. They don't have the voice or the drive. And I am happily putting myself out there for them as a means to an end, for that advocacy work that I hold so dear. That's kind of where I go.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that, because I feel like we need to have more of these conversations. And I think that as someone who has a similar cultural background, or growing up in a Mexican household, mental health was not a thing. Mental health issues were non existent or perceived as non existent. And if you had any issues, it was a you issue. It was you are lazy. You are x. You are sensitive. You are too much.

Izzie Chea

Exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But that's for anybody who could be struggling with mental health issues, to some extent. Nut then if you have kind of multiple struggles, or are part- I feel like neurodivergence, at least for me and my experience, it's only been recently more shared widely on social media in the last couple of years. Whereas for instance, my son was diagnosed on the autism spectrum when he was three. And I recall at age one and a half, he was getting assessed and getting speech therapy. I would get comments from people saying, why are you trying to find something wrong with him? There's nothing wrong with your child.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I thought to myself- what are you talking about? I'm trying to get support, resources and education. Why not, if this could be helpful? Even when he got the official diagnosis, people didn't believe us. It was as if that label was a bad thing. For us, it was such an incredible gift, because then we started - I went into that rabbit hole. I didn't know anything about it. I went into that rabbit hole. My husband and I both went into it, and we realized, oh, shit. It's like, oh, you're like that, like check check check.

Izzie Chea

Exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's when I started learning more about other forms of neurodivergence. And that's when I was like, oh wow. How many folks are out there not knowing? A big part of it is because it was not encouraged based on their background, their culture, or their- you name it. Anyway, that was a rant just to say that I'm glad that you're doing this. I know today's topic is about embracing your neurodivergence, weird and wonderful. So I want to hear- what does that mean to you? When you think embracing your neuro divergence, what does that look like?

Izzie Chea

That's a good question. I know I say that for every question you say? Well, embracing neuro divergence- I believe you can find a home within yourself when you are able to embrace and accept who you are fully. Now, what does that look like? That in particular may look like finding comfort in your routines. That might look like sensory things.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Izzie Chea

That may look like listening to your favorite classical symphony on repeat for weeks. It just feels comforting to me. It may feel like having a community of people who understand your mannerisms and your idiosyncrasies. It's embracing neurodivergent joy in all of its expressive ways. It could be flapping. It could be spinning. It could be dancing. It could be singing. In my case, it's pretending to conduct giant symphonies. I love to pretend I am Gustavo Dudamel. That's my thing. I'm home alone and I'm working on chores- like any mother would in her household. But I'm the one that puts on a booming Beethoven concerto, and I just go to town. It's fun.

Izzie Chea

It's being able to embrace what you love and express it in a safe and comforting way that's special to you. Now, personally, those are those things that matter to me most right? When you're looking at something like the divergent community- finding a neurodivergent community, it's especially difficult when you're in an in person setting, right? It's hard to understand the nuance. Do you disclose to somebody?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Izzie Chea

Do you not disclose to somebody? You may find that if you disclose to a close friend or family member, they may reveal their neurodivergence to you as well. And you have that in common. In person, it can be very tricky. But that's why I feel that online communities have an edge in this case, because you feel safe enough to be who you are, whether that be behind a screen or behind your phone. But you're able to converse with people that really get you and really understand your struggles. They really do help you feel less alone.

Izzie Chea

That I feel is the ultimate goal of finding a neurodivergent community - just making sure you don't feel alone. By seeing other people's struggles and how they're working through them- also maybe learning some tips, strategies, and tricks- you see what's possible for you. You see people succeeding. You can see yourself succeed. You see them struggling too, and you understand because you struggle as well. It makes the world feel a little bit smaller in a way. You have your corner. You have your gente, your family, your people, your humans- as weird and wonderful as they are- and you just feel at home. That's kind of what I'm getting at with a million words.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Hearing you talk about embracing your neurodivergence, I think that there's also a lot more to say about embracing the things- not just that you love about yourself, but your gifts or your talents. Because I know that in the world of getting a diagnosis for instance, there's so much emphasis on the deficit. There's so much emphasis on the struggle. And I understand that it comes from a place of getting support and resources. But then at the same time, every person I know that's neurodivergent has- I mean, everybody has skills and talents. If anything, it's like it's even more intense or even more of a stronger interest. For instance- just like a quick little snippet from my family. My son recently got assessed at his school to get more additional support, and then I met with the school psychologist. She told me your son is twice exceptional. I'm like, what do you mean twice exceptional? Two E- he's twice exceptional because he's gifted and talented, but also he needs learning supports because of his autism. And I thought to myself, well, that doesn't surprise me because a lot of people I know are amazing. They're gifted. They're talented. You are too.

Izzie Chea

Yeah, I was in those programs too.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It was so funny because my son's in fourth grade, and I was like- oh my gosh, when I was in fourth grade, I got labeled gifted and talented. But for me, actually, it wasn't- you'd think that it's a great thing. But it reinforced my perfectionism, and it made it really hard for me to thrive and do things outside of what I knew I would do okay at. So it was not always a good thing. But in your case, you're saying embrace your neurodivergence. And I can't help but think about how many of us focus so much on the struggle that we don't fully embrace the really amazing, unique things, skills and talents that come from just being ourselves. Like for me, I didn't fully realize like, wow, I'm pretty awesome. I'm really good at XY and Z- until I started to embrace my identity, my full self. I really love that message though, the message of embracing your neurodivergence, because we live in a world where that is stigmatized?

Izzie Chea

Absolutely.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I wanted to ask just a follow up question. We're having this conversation and I feel really comfortable chatting with you. I know some folks are going to relate to this conversation, but there are also going to be some folks who are like, what is this term - neurodivergence? I keep hearing about it. Maybe they're less familiar. Maybe it's their first time, you never know. So what are some things that you wish that folks who are less familiar or don't themselves know much about the topic- what do you wish that they knew? Are there any myths that you think are worth debunking? Or just in general, in general information that might be helpful for folks.

Izzie Chea

Sure. I'm glad you asked this question, because there's a lot of, I guess, misunderstanding about the term in particular, as well as the term neurodiversity. So let me clear up the air a little bit. Now, when we're talking about neuro divergence or a neurodivergent person, this consists of -it's a self identifying term. It is not a clinical term. But it would encompass things like ADHD, autism, dyslexia, OCD, bipolar, borderline personality disorder, even so far as anxiety, depression, and epilepsy, Down syndrome- anything where you see the brain itself is not considered typical. It diverges from the norm. You can identify as neurodivergent if you suffer or you are living with any of these conditions.

Izzie Chea

Now, you can also have these conditions and not identify as neurodivergent. That's perfectly valid and fair. There's no role in a book that says you have to say that you're neurodivergent. It just doesn't exist, right? I do identify as neurodivergent because it affects every single level of my life and who I am. So I have no issue identifying with that term. Now, when we look at a term like neurodiversity, or sometimes I hear people say they identify as being neurodiverse- that's actually incorrect, because neuro diversity gets to the root of diversity. When we think of diversity, a great example is biodiversity. You have different types of creatures, animals, plants, organisms all across the world. That's biodiversity.

Izzie Chea

Now, when we look at something like neuro diversity, this would include humans that identify as neurodivergent as well as humans who identify as neurotypical. Neurotypical is what most people would consider a person that does not suffer or live with a condition like I previously mentioned before. A neurotypical person can later identify as a neurodivergent person if they feel that whatever condition that they're living with is affecting their daily lives. That's perfectly valid and fair. So as we're looking at these terms- and it's very fluid, right? These terms are not clinical, like I said before. But it's just a way for people to group themselves and feel belonging in certain groups to better build those communities in which you feel safe and comforted. That's a little bit of a word lesson with some of those terms- neurodivergent neurodiversity, neurodiverse, and neurotypical. Hopefully, that helps a little bit.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That does help. I appreciate you kind of expanding on the differences and also how neurodivergence and neurodiversity help- identifying as being neurodivergent in particular is not necessarily like you're clinically diagnosing yourself. It's a form of identification. I think that is a powerful thing for folks to know, because there's so many debates around diagnosis versus self diagnosis- like getting an official diagnosis, self diagnosis. There's also debates about validity versus the lack of access to getting a diagnosis, and also for whom it could be safe or unsafe to have a diagnosis. So I think that, again, if we're not talking about diagnoses per se, but we're talking about identification- there's so much power in that and in being able to be part of something and to form communities, like you said. Thank you for clarifying that.

Izzie Chea

Absolutely, yes. I really like that you brought up the point of access, because when you are self identifying, or self diagnosing- which is a booming thing that's happening as of late- I personally feel that self diagnosis is a valid thing, because I understand the barriers to mental health care and the barriers to receiving accurate diagnoses for BIPOC, queer, LGBTQ, and non dominant groups across the world. It's virtually non existent in many countries across the world, and in many cultures. Again, that's bringing home the point of if you grew up in a culture where they didn't believe in mental health, then how do you expect that person to go about receiving a diagnosis for something which they identify with 98% online, with other people that are similar to them? How do you expect them to go about and get those diagnoses?

Izzie Chea

In many countries, there are waiting lists. In other countries, it's too darn expensive to see somebody. So I don't think at all that people should be dismissing self diagnosed individuals. And many of those people who have self identified or self diagnosed themselves with a neurodivergent condition- if they do, in fact, eventually get that access to care, then they will have all of the knowledge and all of the power to present to their provider, all of the research that they have done for this. It's only going to equip them with with more, and there's nothing wrong with learning more about who you are as a peroson.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you for that, because I think that that's an important part of the message as well- the access, the lack of access. And then everybody has a different opinion about diagnosis. But I definitely can, or I feel like I agree with you in that I do think - and I've actually heard from other folks who are psychiatrists who say that in a lot of cases, the self diagnosis is - I mean, how can you argue against it when, like you said, you might be 90% in terms of characteristics, traits? And even there's a lot of questionnaires available online. I mean, we all get to determine how we identify. Then in terms of diagnosis, it's up to you to decide how you feel about that. But it's all about -, to what extent does it help you? To what extent does it help you get to know yourself better? To what extent can you kind of learn more about how to navigate this world being yourself?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I fall on the bandwagon of more information is better, more support is better, and respect people and the way that they identify. So if they identify as autistic or as a person with autism- it can go on and on about different forms of identification. I was gonna go on a rant right now, but I thought I'll move on to my next question. We're getting close to wrapping up. I wanted to ask you, what words of advice do you have to share? I primarily have listeners who are first gen BIPOC students. They're college and graduate students, some early career professionals. For that population, who they themselves are identifying as neurodivergent and they want to learn more. They want to learn more about how to embrace you know who they are, how to embrace themselves more fully. Is there any words of advice or even resources that you've learned about that have been helpful- tips, anything that you would like to share?

Izzie Chea

Yeah. First of all, the listeners that are tuning in here, I just want to say, nothing is wrong with you. You are beautiful and you're special, exactly how you are. The world can adapt to you. I always hear this- you adapt to the world. And it's like, no. I want you to flip that upside down and turn it inside out. The world will adapt to you. The people that are meant to be with you, they will find you. You will find your people. This is a very important stage of life- being in college, or a new college graduate, or just diving into your early 20s. This is a super formative time of your life. And I didn't have any of the answers of who I was at that time. I didn't know what I wanted to be. I changed my major seven times. And I ended up with the the grandest thing at the end of all of my college career- the only thing I could decide on after all of that education and time, was the fact that all I wanted to do was help people. That was the big answer.

Izzie Chea

If someone would ask me what I wanted to be, I'm like, I don't know. But I want to help people. That was the only thing I could say. So if you don't have those answers and you're listening to this episode, and you are getting pressure for choosing something, or making yourself take advantage of your 20s with all of your energy and go forth. No. I say, take the time you need to find who you are, You may not have the answers in your 20s. You may not even have it in your 30s or your 40s. But if you can come to a general conclusion of what it is that you bring to the world and how you want to apply it- I said I wanted to help people, right? I help people by educating. I help people find their joy in music. I help people find each other. These are the things I use my talents in storytelling and speaking and teaching to make these things happen. And I know I'm helping people. It answers the question. But here I am at 37 and I realized that this is it. This is what I'm doing right now.

Izzie Chea

So don't worry if you don't have those answers. Don't worry. The time and space that you give yourself to learn more, to understand yourself better, and to express yourself authentically- then those answers will come right. They will come. And if you've been lucky enough to be around people that are supportive of that self discovery journey, then you'll have the support that you need to keep going. If you don't have those people around you yet, we need to do some work to find those people because there are people that I bet would adore you and love to have you in their crew, in their hangout spot, your chill peeps there. There are people there. Your community is there. They're just waiting for you.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm glad that you said that. It's a great way to wrap up today- especially thinking about weird and wonderful, because I think a lot of us can relate to feeling weird or awkward in some way, shape, or form. For folks who saw themselves or heard something that they felt that they could relate to, or learned something and they want to keep learning more, they want to follow your work. How can folks reach you? How can folks follow and support what you do?

Izzie Chea

There's a lot. Like any ADHDer- I think at the very beginning of this interview, I said I was a multi passionate person. That also means I have multi faceted levels of things that I do. But if you want to have the best chance of finding out what I do, you can find me on Instagram. My handle is @Izzieandadhd. All of my other ventures and ideas and projects use that page as a launchpad to get going. At the moment, my big project, which I'm hoping is going to take off and everyone's going to be happy is something called the Accountable Otters Club, which is a community of like minded people who support the development of your goals and making them turn into a real thing by keeping you accountable, remaining accessible and honest. We're working hard to make our dreams a reality over there. So we'd love to have you. That's Accountable Otters Club.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We'll make sure to include both of those and any other links you want us to include in the show notes so folks can have fun and check everything out. I want to thank you, Izzie, so much for coming on. I know you probably get a bunch of invitations. I know you are everywhere. I don't know how you show up and do everything that you do.

Izzie Chea

I don't know either.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When you say multipassionate-all the pages and all the things. I see you everywhere. I'm like, how? But I'm so happy that you came, that you decided to show up for our audience and listeners. Thank you for sharing your experience and your knowledge with us. It's been a lot of fun.

Izzie Chea

Absolutely. Your listeners are a special group of people and I couldn't just not come. I had to say what I needed to say to your special people that are listening. So thank you