185: From PWI to HSI: What I Wish I Knew as a First-Gen Child of Immigrants with Alma Lopez

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette, and today we are covering the topic of going to grad school at a PWI and an HSI as a first gen child of immigrants. Our guest is Alma Lopez and she's a sociology PhD student at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas. She has a master's degree in sociology from Minnesota State University Mankato, and a Bachelor's degree in psychology. She also has certificates in experimental psychology and nonprofit leadership. Her passion is centered on amplifying the experiences and voices of Latinx children of immigrants. Welcome to the podcast, Alma.

Alma Lopez

Thank you so much. I'm so excited and honored to be here.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm happy to have you too. I love hearing people's backstories, so I want to hear more about who you are, what you do, what you study. Essentially, whatever you're comfortable sharing about your backstory and how you became who you are today.

Alma Lopez

Yeah. I'll start with some of the basics. I am 23 years old. I was born and raised in Minnesota from a very, very small town- 2000 people, 2000 or 3000. Maybe it's growing. But it's a predominantly white town. I think it's about 98%. white.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Alma Lopez

Yeah, so it's a big difference from where I'm living now in Las Vegas, which was actually ranked, I believe number two- one of the townships- number two in most diverse midsize cities. So it's a big difference. I went to college in Mankato, and I lived there for about five ish years. I did my undergrad there and my master's degree. I lived in Minnesota up untill this past summer.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Alma Lopez

Yeah, I grew up my entire life there. My parents are from Mexico and I think that's a really, really, really huge part of my identity- having immigrant parents, being a child of immigrants, and everything that I do and who I am surrounds this. And coming from a very small, white town, I did not fully embrace this part of my identity. I didn't fully understand it. I always just kind of grappled with it, and it was a struggle of just back and forth, trying to figure out why I didn't fully fit in and why people treated me the way they did. Which I mean, being a first gen child of immigrants Latina in a space like my hometown, it was just such an internal struggle.

Alma Lopez

People make comments to yo, and I experienced lots of micro aggressions. But for them, it's normal and they don't see anything wrong with it. And even for myself, I kind of just would laugh it off, because it's really all I knew. I got some questions- I used to work at a grocery store, and would get questions of like, where are you really, really from? You know, like where did you come from? I know what they meant, but I would just sometimes disregard it. But once I started college and did my undergrad in Mankato, I started to slowly understand a little bit more. And I did research in my master's degree- my emphasis was race and ethnicity.

Alma Lopez

I really believe going to specifically more as when I started my master's degree rather than the undergrad, it gave me the opportunity to understand myself more and start learning more about who I am, my history, the background. And just accept my Mexican American identity, being a first gen children of immigrants. Now I'm in a Ph. D. program in UNLV, and that's my focus. My study is children of immigrants, Latino children of immigrants. And I'm still on the journey of trying to figure out who I am, and healing, and learning.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I feel like it's such a lifelong journey to figure out who you are and who you want to become too.

Alma Lopez

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. I mean, I can only imagine all that transitions you have gone through. Then even more so, your recent transitions- to have been born and raised in Minnesota and then move to a completely different part of the country, with completely different demographics, and a completely different type of institution too. I'm so curious to hear more about that part of your story, too. Today, you're coming here to talk about what it was like attending apredominantly white institution and now, a Hispanic serving institution. For those folks who are less familiar with these acronyms- PWI and HSI- can you define them in however way you're familiar with them? That way, they have a little bit of context before we dive into your experience.

Alma Lopez

Yeah. A PWI is a predominantly white institution, and an HSI is a Hispanic Serving Institution. PWI- what gives it that distinction is it has 50% or more enrollment of white students. But also if it's historically white- that's, I think, the federal definition. But for Hispanic serving institutions, it is defined as an institution that serves 25% or more of Hispanic students, and it makes them eligible for federal grant funding. I was looking at up a couple of days ago, and there's actually over 500 HSIs serving more than 2 million Latinx students. And there's also a new word coming up, which is emerging HSIs, which is 50% to 24.9% Hispanic institutions. So they're in the growth as well. There's currently 362 emerging HSI that fall in this criteria. And I think the both of these kind of parallels to the growth of the Latino population.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. I'm not a scholar of HSI, so I was less familiar with the number of institutions and also with how many emerging HSIs are available too. That's helpful to have that that background info. So from your experience, what are some of the major differences that you've noticed between the PWI and the HSI that you're attending now?

Alma Lopez

Well, I think the big difference, at least for me, was in the PWI that I attended- I was there for five years. I did my undergrad and my masters. First, the demographics, of course. My town where I went to school was 91% white, and the institution itself was 73 or 75% white, with less than 5% of Hispanic population.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Alma Lopez

I will say that they did rank number nine just this past fall in international students. They have a large number of general international students from about 100 different countries. But in general, the diversity is still 73% White. Now in UNLV, it is a minority serving institution, which is more of an umbrella term and a Hispanic serving institution. We are about almost 70% or 66% minorities. I think there's about 30,000 students in total, and 9000 are Hispanic and 8900 are white. So there's actually more Hispanic students than white students. And it's ranked one of the most diverse campuses in the United States.

Alma Lopez

So I think the first thing is just in general, like when you're walking around, who you see. It's not just white students. It's Hispanic people. It's just in general students of color. But some of the differences once- at least in Mankato in the PWI -there was more microaggressions that I experienced. And I've only been here at this institution this past fall, but from my experience in the PWI to now, I haven't experienced as much as of that. I can't really recall a moment where I felt this sense of like not belonging. And that was the case for me at the PWI. I don't know. There was some times where I'd be sitting in a class at the PWI and I was the only person of color there. It was just a room full of white students. And there was times where I just didn't feel like I should show my voice or I should really speak out.

Alma Lopez

And also, the faculty. Faculty weren't very diverse in general, at least in my undergrad years. Once I started my master's, I did have for really the first time a professor of color, and a Latino professor as well. I was blown away. I was so excited, so happy. But yeah, sometimes just walking around in the PWI, I sometimes would feel stares. It just felt a little uncomfortable with the looks. But it all leads back to the diversity. It's really very a white institution. And I think the big difference too is here in the area, in the HSI, I feel like there's more. There's classes offered that weren't offered in the PWI.

Alma Lopez

There's a Latina course that I'm going to be taking in the next semester. I'm taking a course on intersectionality. I have a couple Latina professors. There's just more diversity walking around. I feel if I ever had an issue or if I experienced something, I feel like I would have people to talk to. I'd probably feel more comfortable just reaching out to people. And at least in my institution here, there's some resources available. There's a first generation club. There's a Latina club. There's a mentorship club or a program where you can be paired with an undergrad- or just depending on your level, you can be paired with other people to help mentor each other.

Alma Lopez

I know at least I feel more engaged within the institution. But also outside of the institution, I feel like I have more resources available to me- more programs, more nonprofit organizations around the area that can help me. But I also want to emphasize too that the HSI, it's a label designation. That just means they're eligible for funding. But it also doesn't mean that they're forced to necessarily give you a better education. There's no requirements for that. But at least here in this institution, I do feel more welcome than I think I ever did in the PWI that I attended in Minnesota.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Some of the things that I heard you say have to do with the differences in diversity- not just among the students, which is the first thing you think about when you think about HSI, the student demographics. But then how you notice more diversity among the faculty, and then added to that, diversity in the curriculum too and the access to courses. Then on top of that, in your case- and I'm not sure this is the case at every HSI- but the surrounding community is relatively diverse too. So you have access to resources outside of the campus too. And all of that, I think adds up to you feeling more supported, and included, and like you belong- more so then in a space where you don't see people that look like you, and that are interested in similar topics as you for learning.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm glad that I am hearing from you about this experience. And I'm curious if this was something you even knew about or you considered when you were applying to grad programs. When you're trying to decide on going to grad school, were you thinking - oh, I want to go to grad school that's definitely more diverse than the college that I attend now? Were you thinking, I definitely want to attend an institution that has this classification, that's an MSI or that's an HSI? Or was it just kind of like a very great coincidence or something that worked out in your favor?

Alma Lopez

I think it was for sure a very great coincidence and it worked out very well. Because I'll be honest, I had no idea that there were such classifications as a MSI or HSI. I didn't know that that was a thing. I think as a first gen college student, I really had no idea how to maneuver college or what even college was. I applied last minute to all the free institutions the Free Application week when I was in high school, because I didn't know if I could attend. I didn't know how I was going to pay for it. I didn't know anything about financial aid. So I just applied.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We both have that same story. That brings back old memories. That's a very common first gen story, of like- you just attend whatever you can get for free with all the waivers, and hope and pray that you can figure out financial aid, right?

Alma Lopez

Yeah, it's just a hope. You hope it works out, because there really isn't anyone to guide you. And also coming from a small town, there was no one to help me in any way. There was people helping other students, the white students, with their situation. But my situation is different, and that wasn't really taken into consideration at all. But I went to the school that was nearby, and I stayed there for again, both my undergrad and my grad career. But even before applying to my master's degree, I had no idea if I could do it either. I didn't know how I was going to be able to fund it. So I went to a professor, and I was just asking her- how does it work? Should I even consider it? I don't know if I can do it.

Alma Lopez

And she saw, I think, the potential in me and the desire to pursue a further education. I went in just asking for help with the application or how to go with the process, and she ended up getting me a job. I worked as a research assistant. Then she helped me build my resume- just by offering me that job, that research assistant job. And it was in conjunction with my only ever Latino professor that I had, so it was both of them. It was a study on nonprofit organizations, and it was both in the US and Honduras. So it was also like I was able to use my Spanish. It was just a very, very good experience.

Alma Lopez

But I really did go on a whim for my grad program, my masters. And they were very helpful. But I will say, my emphasis and what I want to learn is more about race and ethnicity and children of immigrants. But in the institution, there weren't that many race courses offered. I had one race course that I could take, and it was offered by that Latino professor. That was the only course that was available to me, at least within the department. And the professors were all very helpful. I always felt like I could reach out to them. But the curriculum wasn't what I felt like I needed. It didn't help me develop more of the knowledge and history of just race and Latinos in general, because it was just that one course.

Alma Lopez

Then I graduated and before I graduated, I was looking into PhD programs. I went through the whole same struggle again of- I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can be funded. I don't know how this works. And I applied very last minute, a minute before applications were due. I got some letters of recommendation from those same professors that really helped me out throughout the whole master's program. And I fortunately, got accepted and got three offers from different institutions. One of them being UNLV, another being the U of O, and University of Massachusetts. And I was looking at just the demographics of them. And I actually visited the U of O. I went to Oregon, looked at the area, just toured the institution.

Alma Lopez

But after just looking up all of them, and obviously taking into consideration funding and what they were offering me, I realized that the most diverse, and that met my needs, was UNLV. Again, I hadn't taken that into consideration for my undergrad or masters. But now that I'd be moving across the country, I realized that that's something I needed and it's what I want to pursue my education. I want to learn about myself, learn about my community, and be in a place where I felt just safe to do so. And Oregon- it's beautiful. It's such a beautiful state. But the town was about 87% white, and the institution, about 8% Hispanic. So although it was pretty, I knew that in reality for me to be better and for me to succeed, I needed to be around people who looked like me. I needed that support. It may not be the same for everyone. But I was in a journey of just wanting to learn more, because I never had that growing up.

Alma Lopez

And UNLV is among the most diverse in the country. The area itself is, again, very diverse. There's a community. So I eventually ended up choosing UNLV. Again, there was a lot of other factors as well. But a big factor also was just the diversity because I knew that I could feel supported. And I never actually visited before I made the acceptance. But just looking at the area and looking at the professors- there's a couple Latina professors, and one of them I actually cite in my work. I cite her work in my thesis, and she's a professor here. I'm glad I made this choice. I'm very happy to be here. I'm happy that when I walk around, I see fellow students that again, look like me. I feel like my professors, I can reach out to them at any time. When I go out to the store, there's other people like me. I hear Spanish being spoken nearby- something I never had. So ultimately, I'm so happy I made this choice.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, I really love interviewing folks from different stages of their academic and professional journeys, because you have so much to share. For instance, what you were talking about with the differences and what you've learned about UNLV, and how it's impacted your research in a positive way. I'm thinking about how I've been supporting students in applying to graduate school for over 10 years now. And the first thing that people usually think about when they're thinking about creating a grad school list and applying to grad school are the rankings. They're like, I want to go to a top school and I think about all the big schools.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But it's less common that I'll hear someone say- I want to apply to a school that has this number of representation that matters to me, or a school that, like we said, HSI, MSI. There's other distinctions too that I'm just not remembering off the top of my head, of institutions that have relatively high demographics of underrepresented, or just minority-whatever word you want to use- of the Black, brown students. You name it. And that's important. I guess what you're kind of reminding me is that it's important to know the things that are going to help you to feel supported and are going to help you succeed in graduate school. And that it's okay to pursue a program because it has the diversity that you're looking for- especially because in your case, it aligned with your research too. You knew there's faculty here that I want to work with. There's someone here I actually cited.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I hope that folks that listen- because some folks that listen are thinking about applying to grad school- that it's something that they keep in mind. It's not just about- let me search for the top programs in my field. But it's also like, let me see in what programs I'm going to feel represented and supported, because that could make or break your experience in grad school. Or at least, your experience in grad school may be less rocky, because you'll feel more supported. Also, the location matters too, because if you're in a location where you don't feel safe, or you don't feel comfortable- you're saying, I hear Spanish when I'm going places. That's a sense of comfort. That's a plus, I think, in your case. Now that you've had these two very different experiences, I'm wondering- what do you wish that you knew that you now know about these two types of institutions, and about your grad school journey?

Alma Lopez

Yeah, I think, first, I wish I even knew that they existed. But I think also the discussion of- yes, it is a Hispanic serving institution. But it's also a designated label. They're all different. And because it's a Hispanic serving institution, that doesn't precisely mean that there will be structured programs in place to fully help you succeed and things in place that they will do. But there will just be more Hispanic students on campus. But every institution, again, is different. And I feel, at least here, that there are some programs in place to help me. But I also want to highlight again, it doesn't mean because you're in a Hispanic serving institution, you won't experience struggles.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's the truth.

Alma Lopez

Yeah, regardless of the classification, there will always be ups and downs. And when I moved to Vegas for the first time, I was so excited. And I still am very excited. I'm very happy that I'm here. But I did experience a sense of just feeling overwhelmed.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh my gosh, isn't the institution multiple times the size of your small town- just the campus population?

Alma Lopez

Yes, just the campus population itself is bigger than the town size that I grew up in. It was incredibly overwhelming. But I'm so grateful to see myself reflected not only on the campus, in the community, just everywhere. But again, I did experience that moment of just feeling completely overwhelmed. And I felt a little sad that I realized all that I missed out in my life from being in a small space, a white space, where a lot of times I felt unworthy. But then I realized, being in this space, being in an HSI and being in the community where there's a large Latino community, I realized that I am not unworthy and I deserve to be heard. I'm worthy to be seen. I am worthy to receive the support I need, and I'm worthy for my experiences to be taken into consideration. So it was a big moment of just overwhelm and a little bit of sadness, but ultimately grateful. Still, I'm very happy that I'm here. But yeah, I just want to highlight that - at least coming from a very white space to then coming to a space where there's diversity, I did experience just a moment of overwhelmingness and feeling just a little sad that I missed out on these things. But ultimately, extremely grateful.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, you have a unique experience in that you grew up in a predominantly white and very, very small town. But that kind of culture shock happens to a lot of us in going to college and grad school if we end up moving away from wherever we're from. A lot of California students struggle to move away from California because there's a lot of shocks with the diversity, with the weather, etc. The same goes the other way around. If you're from another state and you're moving to the other side of the coast, there's this big kind of culture shock. Or even in some cases, it can be called reverse culture shock to go from - you're like, wait. I saw all these white people, now it's all a bunch of people that look like me.

Alma Lopez

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I just think that is so interesting, because it works in so many different ways. But also, there's so much potential for growth in putting yourself outside of spaces that you've kind of been raised to be the norm in your life. We're getting close to wrapping up the episode. I want to know if you have any words of advice for first gen students. There might be someone out there who has a similar experience as you, who is from a small town, who is dreaming big, who wants to go to grad school. And they're deciding- that's the big question that I get. That's one of the most common questions I get. How do I create a grad school? How do I decide what program is good for me?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And very few people are -like in your case, and in my case too. When I was an undergrad, no one taught me what these acronyms were. People just -I think once you advance in your education, you take these terms for granted. People just blurt out all these acronyms. And when I was an undergrad, I remember always writing down all the acronyms and looking them up later. So there might be folks who are thinking- I want to go to grad school. I am not as familiar with PWI's and HSI's, and I'm pretty sure I'm attending a PWI now. Maybe I want to go to an HSI. But basically, just general words of advice for first gen students of color, for first gen children of immigrants, who are dreaming big, are thinking of moving outside of their home, and thinking of going to grad school. What kind of advice would you want to share with them?

Alma Lopez

I think first is if you do end up choosing a PWI- there's no shame in that choice. Ultimately, every decision, it's yours. You know what needs you have and what works best for you. I would just at least look into the different programs. There could be some programs offered in the PWI that are not offered in a HSI, or a professor you'd like to work with. And the location matters too, because although HSIs are growing, there's definitely way more PWIs. I think to my knowledge, there's no HSIs in Minnesota. I didn't even know they were a thing. So again, location is a big factor. I had the incredible privilege of having funding in this institution. I have a tuition waiver and I get paid. I didn't get help with my relocation expenses, but already having the privilege of getting funding is immense and I was able to make that relocation. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have had the chance to come here and the chance to attend a HSI.

Alma Lopez

So I think definitely taking into consideration the location, the program's funding, and just in general, what is best for your overall goals and overall health. I think regardless of that choice, whatever you end up deciding on is already breaking so many barriers. There's so many barriers for people of color entering academia. They exist. The system works against us. The system is not built for us. But here we are. We continue to push and fight, and I'm glad that I'm here. I'm glad that I have this opportunity, and I'm able to- hopefully, that's the big goal- to help other first gen students, other Latino students, other students of color. And I think the big thing is just all about helping each other out. There's more to be done. No matter the institution, no matter where you are, there's always more to do. But again, regardless of the choice, it's already breaking a whole bunch of barriers and it's furthering a lot.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Hearing your story, hearing the advice you have to share, it just reminds me that being first gen child of immigrants, for a lot of us, going to college and going into grad school is an entry way to better getting to know ourselves, better getting to know what we want to do with our lives and our long term goals. And the institution that we go to actually plays a big role in shaping who we are and who we become. So it's not a quick decision. It's something to think about from many different angles. And in today's conversations, we got to think about the demographics and the resources and the supports. I'm glad that you shared your story. I think that a lot of folks are gonna find that helpful. For folks who want to continue this conversation, reach out to you, follow you, connect with you, how can others reach you?

Alma Lopez

You can reach me on Twitter. I'm starting - I want to start posting more and get more involved in meeting other people. My handle is PLopez_Alma7. I will double check and make sure that's correct. Also email- I have my university email, which is Alma.Lopez@unlv.edu. I'm always happy to meet others. And if I can give any advice, or if I can learn from someone else, I'm always glad to have that conversation.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm so glad. We will make sure to add your Twitter account and your email to the show notes. We'll definitely get the correct info from you before this gets published. I want to thank you once again, Alma, for coming on here, for sharing your experience, the knowledge that you've gained, so many consejos. We appreciate you and I want to thank you for this conversation.

Alma Lopez

Thank you. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to do so.