183: Navigating Unspoken Rules as a First-Gen Professional with Aaliyah J. Deggs

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette. Today I'm really excited. I get to record with someone who I just communicated with today, met today, and we're already here on the calendar. I love it. We've got someone here who's going to be talking to us about navigating unspoken rules as a first gen professional. Our guest is Aaliyah J. Deggs.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

She is a first generation professional from Kansas City, Missouri. She earned her BA in sociology and anthropology from Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia. Additionally, she earned her Master of Arts in higher education with a graduate certificate in American Indian higher education. Currently, she serves as a Res Life Coordinator at the University of South Florida. As a lifelong learner, she has many interests - and I'm sure many talents too. Some of her interests include low income students, first gen college students, minority serving institutions, food quity and identity, professional development and holistic wellness. Welcome to the podcast, Aaliyah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Hello, thank you so much for having me today.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yay. I'm happy to have you, happy to meet and to be in conversation with you. The first thing I want to hear is all about you. If you could tell us a little bit more about who you are, what you do- background and backstory, whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Of course. Again, my name is Aaliyah J. Deggs. I use she/ her pronouns, and I am from a low income, first generation background - from Kansas City, Missouri, of course. I came from a community of people who really loved and nurtured me. I was always supported. People - like even my high school counselors gave me money every week, or they made sure I had prom dresses for prom. I came from a really family oriented high school, which led me to want to go to HBCU. From attending a historically black college that's specifically for women, I felt like two of my identities were- I didn't have to worry about those things, because they were already the norm.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

It forced me to think of diversity in a different way, because everyone around me looked similar. So we can't bond over just being black or just being a woman. You have to learn other things about someone else to connect. That really exposed me to a different perspective on diversity. So when I moved to Arizona to get my master's degree, the demographics were very different. I had to learn for the first time ever in my life- I had to figure out, who am I in this space? Because how people here perceive me is not how I perceive myself. It's not how I've been perceived my whole life. And with that- again, I'm coming from a very family oriented, very communal background. And going into a large university like the University of Arizona, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm like, I got my bachelor's degree. I'm degreed, great. People just told me, keep going. Go ahead and get your master's degree. I didn't even know what I needed a master's degree for. And I'm like, okay. I'm just gonna go.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When you say everybody, who's everybody?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

My mentors and the people who love me and care about me. They're like, all right, you're gonna be an academic. If you want to be an academic, this is the steps. You have to go to get your master's degree. So I'm like, okay. I was an RA, a resident assistant. So I worked in housing, even as an undergrad student. When I went on to get my master's, I continued that. You can be a grad student and have the RA role, and I did that. Then I'm realizing- something is missing. I'm just doing what everyone is telling me to do.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I'm going through the housing process. I'm going to grad school. And yet, I feel like I don't know who I am. It was the first time in my life where I kind of had an identity crisis, and it was really important to me to put myself in spaces where I could learn because I was like, I need to learn this for me- not someone else telling me, go do this, go do that. And I'm like, okay. So being in Arizona really taught me a lot as far as taking risks. Even if you do fail, at least you tried, at least you know- and it was your your fault. It's on you, not on anyone else.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So today's topic is really important to me- because, again, I was just following what everyone told me until I had to make decisions for myself, which allowed me to meet other people. Because I would have just had my head down going through school. But I was like, no. Let me jump out here. Let me just send a message. Let me just contact this person. Let me be my actual self, which is an extrovert. I always want to connect with people, always want to learn. And when I took my own agency back, I felt like I was able to start to really navigate and master the the experience of being a first gen in those academic spaces.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. I think that a lot of people are gonna resonate with how you shared that you felt maybe a little lost, or like you weren't sure who you were. And relate to the experience of just keeping going and doing the things that a lot of external sources are telling us to do - and positive, with really good intentions. A lot of times it's people that love us.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But it's these extrinsic type of sources instead of pursuing goals and dreams that are from us. So I'm wondering, what was the aha moment that helped you to start to focus on yourself and to get out there a little bit more? I'm just curious if there was an aha moment, if there were multiple. How did you get from point A, being lost, to point B- I'm gonna do something about it?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Okay. So I went to grad school for free. I mean, free through - I had a housing assistantship, which pretty much paid for housing, room, board- got a stipend. Then I had a grad tuition waiver, so it paid for my tuition. And I got a scholarship to cover the student fees. So ultimately, I just went to grad school free and that was my goal. I'm like, I just want to go to school free. I don't care about anything else. And that was the aha moment. Because I didn't realize- yes, money is important, especially from a low income background.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But I didn't think about the community and the environment that I was going to be in. I didn't think about- oh, what other...I'm not just an academic, I'm a human.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I have other interests and I love community. And I didn't always see that around me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh my gosh. I'm just thinking, HBCU to U of A? That's a huge difference.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, significantly. And even again- some of those mentors kind of told me like, you don't want to be pigeonholed as just an HBCU professional. Go out and expand and be well rounded. I'm like, okay. I'm just listening. Then when I'm actually here- I'm like, you all wanted me to become this well rounded professional and I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what that means.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You're like- if this is what that means, I don't know if I like it.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I'm like, what does this even mean? So I think the moment where I realized - my finances were great, but I wasn't. As a person, I wasn't okay. By October of my first semester, I was ready to go, because, again, I wasn't nurtured in the ways that I was used to being nurtured. And I experienced a lot of outward racism for the first time in my life. A lot of people will say- oh, you can't experience the world without interacting and engaging with people who don't look like you. But that wasn't my truth. That wasn't my story. And when I finally found people who looked like me, our stories were completely different. So I always felt like othered no matter what group I was in. So I was like, okay, well. This is my reality. This is my story. How do I go from a deficit thinking to like an asset based thinking?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

At the time I did not use that language. I was more so like- this is who I am. Let me just figure out how to work this.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Because I have to be here, because I can't go home. I don't want to feel like a failure of my community of investors.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's that higher ed background coming in. As soon as you said deficits, assets- I'm like, there's that MA.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes. And I'm like, I can't go home, because again, my community invested so much in me that I had to... this was my way of giving back to them. So I'm like, I can't give up. I have to figure out- how do I navigate this space? This is what it's going to be for the next few years. How do I make it work for me? That is the lightbulb moment of when I started to join different organizations- not only at the institution, but in the community. Then I get to learn about the city that I was living in.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Mentoring is important to me- obviously, as I talked about mentoring already so many times.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I started to mentor 6th graders from a local high school.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I joined an organization for internship called Metropolitan Education Commission, where I went into high schools and helped them with college access work. So like FAFSA. And I worked with primarily their Black and international students.. Those were the moments where I found those connections. But I put myself out there, because I was like, I cannot be miserable for two year. I have to find joy. I had to find something to sustain me. And I love music, so I was always going to concerts. I got that unlock. I can go to a concert all day, any day. But also, what about those days where I'm not at a concert? I needed something else. That's when I really started to just make it work for me. And that is my probably my biggest advice to first gen professionals- try everything. Put your name in the hat. And if it doesn't work for you, it wasn't meant for you. Go on to the next opportunity.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes. Before we go into the topic of unspoken rules and the hidden curriculum. If you're comfortable sharing, I'm curious how you arrived now at University of South Florida?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Pretty much...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You finished your MA. Then I'm like, there's a gap there. Now you're working in a completely different state.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, because I knew I wasn't going to be able to stay in Arizona. To me, it was a two year commitment and commitment is very important to me. It's probably one of my core values professionally. If I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna commit to it. So I was like, I'm committed for two years. My master's is over two years. And since I was already doing the housing work- and I enjoyed that. I love connecting with students outside of the classroom. I got to learn about them in ways that sometimes I loved and other ways- I'm like, I don't want to see you leaving your room at two in the morning.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But with that, I didn't know what else I wanted to do right after. I'm like, okay, I got these two degrees. I don't even know what they really mean. At one point, I wanted to be a college professor. But then I realized, I didn't want to do that after a while. And I just relied on having the housing background. So I applied for different housing positions across the nation. This was the only- USF was the only school that I applied to in Florida. But actually, they reached out to me because I had never even heard of the institution. And I like some of their key points and highlights.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So I put my name in the hat, and they hired me. I was like, yes. I came to the campus. It felt right. It felt like a mixture of both of my experiences. Like it was diverse enough. To me it's very diverse to be a predominately white institution. And it was still in Florida, which was not too far from Atlanta. So I can go back and see my college friends if I wanted to. To me, it was just a great location to where if I can get to different communities that I've created, it'll be close enough. And I knew I didn't want to be on the West Coast anymore. That's how I got here, just going through the housing process. And I've been at the University of South Florida for four years now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. Four years- time flies.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Then you're the perfect person, because I'm sure you've learned a ton about being a higher ed professional, being a res life professional, in the last four years. So I'm curious, if you could go back in time, what are some of those unspoken rules or some of that hidden curriculum of being a professional that you wish you knew back then?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I wish I knew how to advocate for myself more. I think I was so focused on just being grateful for the opportunity.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

That I was kind of just like willing to be a team player when I shouldn't have been a team player. Now that I'm creating more boundaries, folks are not used to it because I'm always the one volunteering. Like,I can come. Yes, I'll do that. Yes, I'll come to the late night program. No worries. You need to pick you up from the airport in the morning? I got you, no worries. And now I'm like- 9 to 5.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

That has been very challenging for me to navigate, because I'm always a helper. I always want to- like, if I can do it, I will. But lately, I'm telling myself, just because you can doesn't mean you have to.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So I think being a team player works for work for me at the beginning of my career, because I was- I don't want to say awarded. That's not the language I want to use. But I was exposed to more opportunities, because I was willing to put myself out there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But now as I am transitioning into a more mid level career search now, I'm like, what do I really care about? I want to stick with that. I don't want to keep exploring. Yes, that's great. But now I've done enough exploring to know what I like and what I dislike. And so initially, I would say, please explore. Find out what you like. But then once you find it, stick to it and create a niche, because the job that I have- everything is generalist, a little bit of everything.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

And that's great. But then, when it's time to be a specialist, you're like, I don't know what to do because I have so many things. I don't know if that directly answers your question.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You mentioned advocating for yourself as one of the unspoken rules and learning how to set boundaries, which is hard for a lot of us- but especially I think, when you're starting out and you're trying to, in some ways, learn the ropes and prove yourself. And I wanted to mention the team player comment. You mentioned something about being a team player, and I do think you can be a team player while upholding your boundaries.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, I know that now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. But I'm curious about other unspoken rules, because there's a big shift and a big difference when you go from being a student to being an employee. And from being an employee to then perhaps being a manager, or working with folks who are in positions where you are in a position of authority, or in a hierarchy above them. Any other unspoken rules or things that you have learned during your time that- again, as a first gen student- maybe you might not have been aware of?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, I think about departmental cultures a lot, because a lot of times people tell you you're just supposed to get a job after you get your degrees. So you just look for a job and you look for a certain salary and that's it- which kind of goes back to even my graduate school story of-it was free so I'm going.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Thinking about, what are the departmental values? When you look at their websites, what are their mission statements? Do they align with the things that you care about, and the things that you want to be a part of? I didn't really look at- I wrote them down. But I didn't understand them or ask questions about them. So I wish I would have asked a little bit more questions, like, hey, you have this in your mission statement? How does that show up in your work on a day to day basis? After every interview, they ask, do you have any questions? I was asking very general questions. Aain, I wish I would have really asked, how do their policies and their values play out in the day to day work? That could help me understand what would be my role, and how can I assist in helping them accomplish those goals.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

For sure. And I think you make a good point, because also sometimes, some folks - myself included in the past- have this impression that just because the department may go by a similar name, it doesn't necessarily mean that they uphold the same values. You might be applying to the same department across multiple institutions. Then you read their website, and they've got a slightly different mission statement or the wording is different. And then you talk to them and you realize, wow, these are two very distinct places. Or they might have something on their website, and then you talk to them or you talk to employees, and you realize that doesn't quite match with what they're actually doing.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, for sure.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And that's stuff you don't know. You can look at the website, but you won't know unless you talk to people.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

You have to ask. You have to talk to people. When I was job searching, I made it a point to talk to at least three to five people who worked there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. Okay, this is a really good tip. Let's say it again for the folks who missed it. You said you talked to how many people per job?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Three to five.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Some units don't even have that many employees.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

If they didn't have that many employees, I was like, that means I'm going to have to do a lot of work. So I don't know that was gonna be the place for me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That is another good point. I'm glad you're mentioning that.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, because I'm a person that - taking one person's story is great. But I also know that there are other stories out there. So if I'm talking to at least three people, and I notice a common trend, I'm like, that's something that I need to pay attention to. Because three different people who don't even know that I'm talking to each of them are saying the same thing. And I try to do things across different identities as well. I've always talked to people who look like me, a person who didn't necessarily look like me, and then may be one person that I assume shared at least one or two identities.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I kind of asked them some questions about that. Like, how do you feel represented in the department? Do you feel like you're heard? Or what are some things, some initiatives, that you've led? Did they trust you to lead these initiatives? Different things like that. Because to me, I wanted to come in and feel like I'm contributing. I didn't want to just be a worker. I'm not that person. I always have ideas. And as you can tell, always have so many interests. So I always want to know- how can I still work with you all while still doing things that I'm passionate about and that I care about? So I talk to a lot of people.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm trying to do the math. I feel like that- I don't know, how many positions can apply to when you're talking to that many people?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I applied to ten.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Okay.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So about 30 to 50 people I talk to.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. Hold up, hold up. There's gotta be a system here.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Did you find them on linkedin? Did you find them on departmental sites?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I went to the departmental sites. I looked at different things. And I didn't all do this in one sitting- I want that to be very clear. It was a series of months. I didn't just talk to everybody in the week. I want to make that clear.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Still. I'm like, 50 people in a series of month? I'm doing the math. That's still a couple people.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yeah. But it didn't feel like that in the moment to me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I went on their website, looked at a few things that folks were doing. I would email them like- hi, my name is Aaliyah. I'm interested in X position. I would love to chat with you. If you are available, can you please let me know your availability? Pretty much some variation of that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

And some people would actually email me back and call, or some people would just respond via email. So it wasn't all on the phone per se. Some people never even responded at all. But I always made the attempt to at least talk to someone. I think those conversations were some of the more determining factors on how I made my decision, because sometimes they were brutally honest. And other times, I had to push a little more. Like, so how is it really? How is it on a day to day? I was trying to probe them a little bit more. But it worked out for me, I feel like I came in already with a mentor, because I met them in that process. And the folks that I met that I didn't go to the same institution, or I didn't work at the same institution as them, we became friends on Facebook and LinkedIn. So they became a part of my network naturally.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's great.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

You may have never even met each other, but we know of each other and we follow each other on these platforms. That was a way that I created my network without even knowing that I was doing it, but it ended up benefiting me in the long run.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's really good. Those are already some really great tips. Reaching out - you said three to five people per place that you were applying to. And then, also what you mentioned earlier about the department and their values, their mission, all that -making sure it aligns with your own. I feel like there's so many unspoken rules.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm curious- going back in time to when you started this position- you had a really good sense of, you said it felt right when you accepted the position. Then you having to move- that's a pretty big move from Arizona to Florida. And you're there at a new institution in a new role. I mean, you're already familiar with ResLife. But take us back to your first month in that position. Not just the culture shock, but also having to learn a new campus and how it works and runs. That's also a thing. That's also part of unspoken rules. I feel like every campus is a little different too, no?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Very true. They're very different. I think for me, I moved a lot. So moving wasn't necessarily the hard part. Let's be clear. I do not like moving. I don't think anybody wants to move. Let's be clear. But I'm originally from the Midwest, and then I moved to Atlanta. Then I moved from Atlanta to Arizona, then Arizona to Tampa, Florida. I was always moving very far from home. So with that, I learned to maintain relationships from wherever I was, because I was always in a new place. That part didn't scare me. I think what scared me the most was the identity of being a student- I didn't have that anymore.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes. That's a big identity shift, too. Can you say more about that?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yes, because now I'm like- well, my schooling is learning this department. This is my course that I have to take right now. And I went straight through school. From high school, I went to college. From college, I went straight into grad school. Then I went into my entry level job. That's all I've known- working and going to school at the same time. There were times where I had maybe two or three jobs going to school at the same time. So now I was like, all I have to do is focus on work? What is this? I'm so used to being busy. I'm so used to having calendar and color coding, and every minute was counted out of doing something.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Now I just have to work and I go home at five. Sometimes I'm on call because that's the nature of the position. But I was like, what do I do after five? It was just very different. And now I was making the most money that I've ever made, too. So I'm like, well, we have to budget. Yes, you still have to have a savings. I still had a lot of financial literacy parts down, because I knew I could never be broke ever again in my life.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But just really thinking about, wow, this is a large institution in the state of Florida. But this institution is also young in comparison to the other Florida schools. So understanding that dynamic. Then specifically for our department, I would say our department's love language was quality time. And that is not my love language.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

What does that mean when you say that? They want you around all the time or what?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yeah, like- let's eat lunch together. Let's have dinner together. Let's meet up together- together, together, together. And I'm like...okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thats a lot. What's your love language? Now I want to know.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Words of affirmation.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So I'm like, okay well, since this is my first month here, I have to agree to this -because I'm new and they have to get to know me and all those things. And I don't want to be a person who was perceived as standoffish. But deep down, I'm like, my battery is depleted of human interaction. I need to go recharge. I need to recharge. I need to recharge.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And you're an extrovert. I'm imagining myself as an introvert. I'd be like- I need alone time during my lunch today. I'll see y'all later.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But it was like, all day every day. And our training, it was five weeks of always being together from nine to five every day for five weeks. I'm like, wow. I haven't even been around my family this much in the last few years. That was really hard. And when we talk about the unspoken rules - it's kind of like you're voluntold to do certain thing. It seems optional. But you know everybody around you is doing it, so then you're like- do I want to be the oddball out?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

If I say no, what does that look like? So there's a lot of perception. You're thinking about how you're being perceived. You're thinking about how you're perceiving other people. And if someone does this, what does that mean? Because you're still learning the department. I think with that, it was really hard coming into an institution that already knew who they were. They weren't really trying to change anything. They're like, this is how it's been done. This is how we're gonna keep doing it. Let's roll with the punches. And I had a lot of questions. I was curious about this. I'm like, well, the website said this, and then where's it? And they're looking at me like- girl, shut up. And I'm like, what?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wait, are most of your colleagues- were they already familiar with the institution? Had they been there or gone there?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Some of them were. I want to say half and half. There were people who'd already been there for a few years and then there was a cohort that - we came in together. We came in through very different institutions as well. So we're all coming from different places, having different experiences, from different backgrounds. Everyone didn't have a Master's of higher education. Some people came in from the business perspective, or psychology and communications. So we were very diverse in experiences. With that, that's always a great thing.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But it also poses challenges when those same values are not being- what's the word I want to use...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Upheld?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Upheld, or like, they don't need it in that moment? Like, oh it's great that you have it, but it's not what we need right now- type of thing. So yeah, learning the department was very different, especially because I couldn't leave to go to class anymore. Like if something was going on, I'm like, I'll tell my supervisor then I'm going to class. Now I'm like, no, I have to address this. I have to learn all the policies, because the policies were very different. I think that was the hardest part- and not understanding why certain things were happening. Because I had a different experience. I'm like, this seemed easier. But now this seems like five additional steps. Why is that? So I would always ask my supervisor- like, how did this come about? Did something happened to make us have to do all these steps? I was always very- I always have questions. Always.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

That's good. That's really good. I always think that you have to ask a lot of questions when you're getting started, especially if you want to learn, if you want to learn quickly. Why not? I know some folks don't want to be perceived of as like rocking the boat or not knowing enough. But it really helps to ask a lot of questions.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Sure.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

The other thing though too is earlier you mentioned that the difficulty with transitioning your identity from being a student to now being an employee- no longer having school as that kind of safety net, where you're having an issue, you can say, I'm gonna clock out and go to class. But also, with no longer being a student comes the transition of working a nine to five for the first time. Whereas before, your schedule might have been more flexible. With a nine to five, it's a little less flexible. But then I can imagine if you're used to working flexible hours, but also probably working a lot because you said student, multiple jobs- how does that then carry over to this job in Res Life? Where I feel like- I worked in ResLife as an undergrad. I never worked the mid level or any of the advanced, upper level roles. But I lived in the dorms. I'm familiar with that culture. And the folks that I know who have a background of res life, I've heard that it can be a 24/7 job, especially when you're on call. Can we talk about that a little bit more?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yeah, let's talk about it. I think for me, I didn't have the best grad school experience. So I was burned out. I was just burnt out. I came into the job burnt out- because I kept trying to find community so much that when it came time for me to be at the University of South Florida, I was like, great. I'm not in school anymore. I can breathe a little bit.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But then that one month of breathing turned into two months, and I'm like, this is different. I'm so used to doing stuff. I didn't know how to sit down. And there were things that I wanted to do. But now I don't have a connection to academia in the same way anymore. Say if I wanted to publish or write something, I'm like, wait, how do I do that? I didn't know how to do it. I don't even know who to ask. I'm like, can I use my new job location? How do I cite myself? You know what I mean? When you write certain things, they say your name from this institution. And I'm like, I just got here. Can I even say that? Can I use that? So that was challenging at first.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I also, again, wanted to make community outside of work. So I joined a dance team. I just wanted to meet other people, because I knew I needed a balance from the work. Early, I knew, we spent too much time together. So I'm like, how do I not get so focused on just my work friends? I want to make friends in the community as well. That was a little bit challenging, because people didn't understand it- because they didn't do it. Their friends were at work. So I'm leaving, and they're like, you're not going to the kickball game? I'm like, no, I have something else to do. They're like, ou have something else to do? Yes. That was interesting. That was very interesting.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Going back specifically to the identity of not being a student anymore- there were new, just more responsibility that I didn't realize was gonna happen. I can't even think of a specific example. But it just felt like, oh crap. If I mess up, I'm getting fired. Or at least, there was more developmental things in college. They're preparing you for these roles.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

If something happens, again, you have that safety net. You have a mentor. Your supervisor's helping you out. Yes, I still had a supervisor. But it was like, you're professional now. I'm like, what does that mean? How do I...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

They're like, just do it.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Just do it. I don't even know what just be a professional means. Then, again, this training was five weeks, whereas in grad school it was only two weeks. So I signed up for my dance team around that time, and they're like, you're in training for five weeks. I'm like, wait, nobody told me. I kind of started off rocky, because no one shared the calendar with us of like, hey, this department - in February through this, this is what the expectations are. There were no expectations. It was assumed that you knew. And I struggled so bad with that, because I'm like, again, I'm used to two weeks. Five weeks training, that's a lot.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

From 9 to 5, nearly every day. Again, I'm like, I made a mistake. Now, it's so early, I'm already making mistakes. What does that mean? I'm like, dang, I wish I was in school so I can have a reason to stay longer. It was just a lot of thoughts. I keep trying to think of an example to share, but nothing is specifically coming to me right now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm glad that you mentioned that- this concern over potentially making mistakes, or all these things that they just expect you to know. And how, unfortunately, that's why a lot of people don't try new things or go out of their lane, because they're afraid of messing up, or they're afraid of getting fired, or they're afraid of all the things. I just wish that we could normalize that- the not knowing - and show more grace, and offer to help. Sometimes there's only so much that- five weeks is a lot, but you can't cover everything in five weeks.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Agreed.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

There has to be that learning curve period where it's okay to say- oh sorry, I didn't realize you didn't know. This is the way that we do things, and let me explain further. I experienced that as a higher ed professional too, because I worked in a scholarship center. I also worked for a research center. I also worked for a McNair program. And at every stage, you join and you're expected to know the language. At every stage you join, you have to know all the acronyms. You have to know all the procedures. Some places don't even have training and they just throw you into the water assuming you can swim- no floaties.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

To me, that's frustrating. And I was that person that asked a lot of questions too. But I don't think it's a sign of any flaws that we have or of weaknesses. Instead it's an indication of some of the hiccups in the system.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. It shouldn't be that you're expected to know everything. It shouldn't be that there's so much information that's gate kept, that only folks that are in the system now. And if you're new going in, you kind of just have to figure it out along the way. Anyway, I guess I just wanted to validate your experience

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Oh thank you.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And say, this happens to a lot of us, especially when you're first gen and you're new at an institution, too.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

There's also those- some places have transition reports or whatever. I read through them, and I'm like, I didn't learn anything. People would say, read your transition reports. Talk to other people. I'm like, okay, I did that. And yet there's something missing here. I would always feel like something is missing. And I didn't know what that something was, so I wasn't able to properly articulate what I needed.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Because I didn't even know what that thing was in the middle. I feel like sometimes, a lot of first gens, we feel something. We know something isn't right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

But we don't know how to articulate or we don't know the language. Or we don't who we can talk to you about it, because especially when you're new, you don't know anybody. You don't have that mentor relationship yet. You haven't really built a strong enough rapport to find out- hey, this is a leadership member that I really trust, who has my back. You don't know that yet.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So it was really challenging in the beginning, seriously. And knowing that- what am I going to do after? When you talk about the no longer being a student identity, that was the other part of my, of my brain. Like, I know I'm in housing right now. But do I want to do this long term? What am I going to do after? When am I going to leave? Because this is the first job that I had that didn't have the end date. We kind of talked about that a little bit. This is the first job that I had to put in- like, hey, I'm leaving. I had to put in my two weeks notice. Whereas all my previous jobs...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

There was an end date.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I already knew. I came in knowing.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You can give yourself an end date.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yeah, I give myself an end date. But how do I know when I'm ready? One of my top strengths is futuristic, so I'm always thinking ahead. With me not being in school, I'm like, so what do I do next? What's next? Should I be- do I want to be a dean of students? And if so, should I start talking to people now? What should I do? Should I start going to conferences? Should I start going to webinars? I was just trying to figure out what would be my plan- because this is entry level. I wasn't intending on being here as long as I did. But I know this job, people come and go. I already knew that. So when is it my time? And then how do I even approach it? What does that even mean?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

The other part of it is we get six credits of free- you can take classes for free to six credits. Now I'm like, okay cool. I kind of have this opportunity to go back to school. But then I had to wait a certain period, because I was a new employee. When that came up, I was like, I want to do it. But then I realized, working full time and going to school may not be the best decision right now. Or I'm burnt out from that. I don't want to do that. The good thing is that I had so many different options that I appreciated. But at the time, again, I couldn't articulate that experience, or what I was feeling, to even get some guidance. I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. And they're like, Aaliyah, you know what you're doing. I'm like- but I don't. Something is wrong. I just don't know what I'm doing.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And is that a stage that you feel you found yourself in more recently? Or do you feel like you've gained some clarity since then?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

100% gained a lot of clarity. I think now, I do a great job of not waiting on other people to validate me and to validate my experiences. I really took to social media and started to create my own content, started to create different things, and join different Facebook groups. Any other thing outside of work to fulfill me, because I knew it couldn't all be about work.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

And I think I gained the department's respect because I didn't depend on them 100% for every aspect of my life. I really love that because it goes into the next point that I want to talk about of credit. Sometimes you don't get the credit that you deserve. You have so many great ideas and you share, and you see that idea come into fruition. But then somehow, your name is not even attached to it anymore. And you're like oh...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yep, been there.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Again, as a first gen, you're like, I know this is happening. But how do I address it? Because now- are you not going to listen to me again? You start to get in your head again. So for me, social media and creating a professional identity and platform allowed me to give myself credit. It allowed me to say, hey, I came up with this idea. Here you go, for the world to see. That has helped me significantly in my professional journey. Now I don't feel the way that I did. When I came in, I felt like I didn't know what I was doing. Now, I'm like, I know exactly what I'm doing. But I want to approach it differently. And now I want to try this thing, because I saw it work for someone else and I feel like it will be beneficial to me.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I think now I'm just refining. I'm not starting from scratch. I'm just doing some maintenance work, and then putting in my own, sharing my own ways of doing things as well. Not just depending on what other people have done in the past, or what's the norm. I'm also like, hey, I have ideas. Let me share those things as well. I definitely feel so much more confident in the work that I'm doing, and I'm able to motivate and sort of coach the younger ones after me, because I'm not the young one anymore.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's great.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

So reminding them like, yes, we do a lot of things all the time. But write those things down.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Keep track.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Yeah, keep track of it. Keep track of your big accomplishments. Keep track of your small- even if you made a slight change to a policy, write that down somewhere. That's your legacy when you leave. So I think I've been really focused on - what is going to be my legacy once I leave here? And on a broader scale, what do I want my professional identity to be? When someone says, Alliyah J. Deggs, what do I want them to think about? What do I want them to say? That has kind of helped me be more intentional with the things I say yes to or not.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's great. That was like a whole personal development pep talk right there. And actually, it's funny, because my next question for you is what words of advice you have to share for first gen students of color, BIPOC students - folks who are about to maybe their first job out of college or grad school? I know you already shared a lot of great advice. But is there anything else that you want to share or any closing words you want to leave them with?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

I want to say that you are not a blank canvas. You already came to wherever you're going to with information, with experiences, with thoughts, with ideas. Don't be afraid to share those. Yes, learn the culture. Learn how to share them, but don't be afraid to share them. Because sometimes, depending on where you are, they can make you feel like- they as in where you are, the organization- can make you feel like they helped make you or create this professional. When in actuality, this is just an extension of the work that you've already wanted to do or had interest in anyway. So really know that you already come with so many great experiences and gems, and you are here just to further that. This is a stepping stone for you to get to your next goals. That is what I want to leave you all with. I really want you to feel empowered, and know that you're going to have so much other support around you. And know that you are the driver of your journey.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love that. Thank you, Aaliyah, for joining us today. For folks that resonated with what you said, what you shared, with your story, with all the advice that you shared- if they want to follow you or connect with you, what's the best way for them to reach you?

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Thank you so much. You can follow me on Twitter at @AaliyahJDeggs. You can follow me on Instagram at @AaliyahJ.Deggs. And LinkedIn- I really love LinkedIn. Again, Aaliyah J. Deggs.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Awesome. We will include that in the show notes for today. Once again, thank you so much. It's been so nice. This iis how we met, through that social media network.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

See, I'm telling you all...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It works.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

It works. Please put yourself out there. Please don't be afraid.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love it. Well, thank you again.

Aaliyah J. Deggs

Thank you so much for your time and allowing me to be on your platform.