177: How to Support Nontraditional Students and Adult Learners With Dr. La’Tonya “LT” Rease Miles

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette. Today I have a really fun and insightful episode on the topic of supporting nontraditional students and adult learners returning to college. Our guest today is Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles, affectionately known by many as LT.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

LT is the Director of Sales and University Partnerships at Rehab education, a first generation college graduate and former stop out student. LT has established two successful programs first first generation college students- one at UCLA and the other at Loyola Marymount University, both recognized as first gen forward institutions. She regularly consults with institutions nationally concerning first gen students, and also has advised local high schools about developing programs on their campus. Finally, she established and manages a national Facebook group- that I'm part of too- called empowering first generation students. Definitely join that if you haven't yall. She's also the chief strategist for the first gen and juice brand. Welcome to the podcast Dr. LT.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Thank you Dr. Evy!

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We were just chatting before the recording and I mentioned to LT how a lot of us know her from many different places. I know her from my time as an undergrad at UCLA. I feel like I would love to know more about your backstory- maybe a little bit more. Not just who you are and what you do, but your background, backstory. How did you become the LT that you are today?

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Oh my gosh, origin story- as I'm surrounded by superheros. First of all, thank you so much. I mean, gosh. You and I have known each other decades now. It's crazy. We don't have to date either one of us, but just to show the long history and longevity. I'm so happy for you and proud of you as well. So I'm physically located in California, in San Francisco Bay area. But I am an East Coast girl at heart. I'm from the Washington DC area in Northern Virginia, right outside of Washington, DC, and grew up there living with my grandparents for a good part of the time, and with my mom who's like my ride or die. I'm my mother's only child. She was a single parent. So - well, not obviously but - pretty close.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It's so funny. I don't know if you felt like this or if this was true for you. But it was very evident for me that I was the first person in my family to go to a four year, but I didn't really think of myself as first gen. Those aren't necessarily- your mindset can be pretty different.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Just based on the conversations in my house, and knowing that no one went to college, I knew I was going to do that. But that identity of being first gen didn't come about till way later. But even before that, before the getting to college part, there's just little things that you realize in your family. And that also set me on a path. So I just give a lot of credit to my mom for her hustle and for her creativity - just things that helped get me along the way, for her sacrifice. She was a teenager when she had me, and she just told me I could do anything. She's just like my biggest fan and cheerleader, so that really helped. And for me, it's one of the early lessons and realizing that even when our families or communities don't have a lot of college-going knowledge, they do fill us with some things.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

So my mom just did the best that she could.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love hearing a little bit more about your background and about your relationship with your mom, because I know that you recently recorded a video with her all about first gen legacy. I know that today's episode is not about that, but I would love to hear a little bit more about that.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah. It does tie in though.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Because I know you want to hear about being a non traditional.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Well, that's the thing. I was the first to go and complete, but I wasn't the first to attempt. There were a number of people in my family who- thanks to the military or what have you- took college classes and whatnot as adults and would be considered non traditional in that way. That includes my mom, and that also includes myself too. We'll come back to me, I know.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

But I've been meditating and marinating on this idea of legacy. I'm sure you have too, because you have your own family.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

You have your own children to think about. What does it mean to be first gen and your children are not, you know? I started that series, but wanted to kick it off by talking to my mom to hear about her pathway as a non traditional student taking classes here and there for over 20 years before finally going to a four year school and graduating. So that video you're talking about was just the intro. The next video will be more about her time at community college, and then eventually going on to a four year school and then a master's degree.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's incredible.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

She did it all in her 40s. It was crazy. So yes. I hope you listen to the other video. She was just so adorable.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm gonna link them in today's show notes, so folks can also watch the videos with you and your mom.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Please do.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When I saw it, I was like, wow. Her mom looks so young.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

She looks young, but she also is young too. Like I said, she was 16 when when she was pregnant with me and she had me when she was 17. I can't imagine.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. You've known her for a good portion of her life. That's amazing.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

For real. I was like her little ride or die partner.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

She never felt like a sister. The authority was clear. But definitely like a partner for me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. And I know we're gonna get to the topic, but I'm curious how it is- as you reflect on your backstory, how it is that you got introduced to this work of working with first gen students, working with non traditional students- now, adult learners. There's a lot of threads of working with students who- we come from very different backgrounds, or we need a little bit of extra support, or we are not the quote unquote traditional student by whatever is defined as traditional- whether it's age, gender, race, ethnicity, the community that we come from. So how did you get to that? We recieved a doctor title, so you went to grad school, got a PhD. How did you get from that to now- re-up.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Girl, we need more time for that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Or just like a quick thread of how you got into that line of work.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah, for sure- then just remind me if I'm not answering it fully. But let's start with something that you and I both share. Both McNair Scholars, right? At the time, I was a student at Howard University. That was my second institution. I was a student at Howard University. And let's be real. I came from a family where if I had literally gone to college for one day, turned around and came back home, that was a major success- because no one had done it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

So the idea of graduate school- I was like, what? That was crazy. So I thought, I'll get a master's degree. I thought I'd get a master's degree in Afro American Studies. That was the plan. I remember, Evy, that I saw this flyer for a McNair Scholars program when I was a student at Howard. And I was like, oh my- I just saw the stipend.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Hey, you're not the only one who noticed those things. Me too.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I was like- research, that's cool. But I needed money, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I just didn't know what research was. So I applied for it. And that McNair program- for everyone who doesn't know, McNair's a federally funded program. What was unique about the program there is that it was drawing students from different schools in the DC area- much like the one at Claremont, bringing students from all over.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It was actually housed at American University, but I was a student at Howard. So that was my first introduction to what is grad school beyond a master's. What is a PhD? What is research? I mean, that changed my life. The McNair Program is what set me on the pathway toward getting a doctorate. And then, true story- like I said, I'm an East Coast girl through and through. And I'm being encouraged to apply to grad school in this place called California at UCLA. I'm like, what? My whole plan was to stay on the East Coast, no lie.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

My plan was- my number one choice was UPenn and then Rutgers, because it was just right up the road.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

And I had an advisor who said- LT, you should consider UCLA- seriously, it felt like a foreign country. But all that to say, , that's what got me on the pathway- still not realizing I'm first gen. Mind you, in a whole TRIO program, not knowing I was first gen. It wasn't until I became a McNair director myself- well, I was probably a coordinator at UCLA. I'm making my way through my graduate program in English and literature. My plan is to be a faculty member, but I'm also working for the McNair program. And it was a graduate student there who said- Tracy Buenavista, Dr. Tracy Buenavista- who's like- LT, you know your first gen, right? I'm like, what? Epiphany.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's wild.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah. So once once I had that language, it changed the course of my life. It changed the trajectory of my professional life- just wanting to bring the same level of awareness to other people that I had. Because I suspect there was so many people like me who - you kind of know, but not really. And you need some language to help explain your experience. So that's what happened with me. Let me pause there. I know you want me to talk about getting to re-up. That was the educational background. But any follow ups to that?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think that that's great. That's a great segue into talking about working with nontraditional students, too. I know that McNair doesn't necessarily- doesn't solely work with nontraditional students, but it does attract some of them. And a lot of the work that you do now is about supporting students who are returning or going back to school. So I wanted to have a conversation- maybe you could get us started with talking about, for folks who aren't as familiar with the terms- just like we at some point, we didn't know what first gen meant. What do we mean when we say non traditional versus, say, adult learners? Then even like, in your bio- stop out students.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I hear terms like reentry students. There's a lot of different terms. But there's some overlap between some of these. Like non track, for instance- what do we mean when we say we work with non traditional students or support non traditional students?

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yes, ma'am. Let me start with- these terms are contested terms, right? These aren't ones that everyone necessarily agrees with. There's some debate right now, if you go on LinkedIn, about what why are we using non traditional? But at the same time, terms are actually helpful too. Even if you're pushing back against it, having a definition is really critical. But I would say that the the term non traditional is really a response to the way that schools for the most part are structured right now. Whether people are saying it out loud or not, a lot of the policies, programs and resources assume that a student is 18 to 24 years old, and for the most part, a dependent- financially dependent on parents. So when we look at the way- let's say move in orientation. Oh my gosh, orientation is a good example.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It's very much assuming that this is a student that's going to be escorted by their family and dropped off, right? So what it doesn't mean- what it doesn't reflect is the reality that most folks in post secondary education are actually over those ages, and maybe in school part time, may be a caregiver- whether it's for their own parents or families or they're parents themselves. That part of the equation is completely- not completely, but it's very much invisible. So for me when I'm hearing the term non traditional, it is acknowledging those groups of people right there. I realize now that at one point, I was considered not traditional. Again, didn't didn't have language for these things, of being first gen. For me, I was also system impacted. For most of my childhood, my father was in jail, in prison, for being food insecure. All these things that I personally had an experience with. So it was really interesting.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I mentioned being at Howard University as a first gen student. My mom was super supportive, but mom didn't know what she didn't know.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

And she hadn't saved money for me. So I owed a housing bill at Howard University, and it had lapsed. You know how you have a bill then you go into the next school year. So it was just sitting there. And at one point- it was the spring of my junior year. I came to my res hall and had- I kid you not- a notice to vacate on my dorm door.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh wow.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It said you have 24 or 48 hours to move - pay this bill or move. And I didn't have money, didn't know who to turn to or anything. So I essentially had to stop out of school for a period of time to figure out- how was I going to pay this bill? It was frustrating because my current balance was up to date. I just had that old lingering balance. Then the school kept telling me- well, you can't apply current financial aid to an old balance. It was ridiculous.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

So this population that I'm intentionally serving at re up is - like that is my own story. There was a period of time where I felt like, I'm not gonna finish college. I didn't know how to pay that bill. I was a junior. It was the end of my junior year, so I had all these credits. And Howard, of course, wouldn't release my transcript because I owed money. I was like, how am I going to transfer? I would have to start over as a sophomore.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah. I ended up getting married. I worked full time and I got married, because I was like, this isn't gonna happen. Meanwhile, my husband was - well, he was my boyfriend at the time- in a similar situation. He had academic troubles and financial troubles. He ended up- oh my gosh, Yvette- he ended up joining the military reserves to pay for school. It's like, I'm sitting on the couch. I see these commercials. Let me join the reserves. Girl, he got sent to Kuwait.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh my gosh.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

He got sent to Kuwait.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm sorry.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

That disrupted my husband's schooling actually for 10 years. Anyway, all that to say, he was out of school. I was out of school. And we said- we decided to get married. Thankfully, I was able to return. I went to a different school, but I was able to go back. Then he went back after we moved to the state of California. My mom went back to school later. So that's actually the history in my family. That sort of stop but not complete is way more common than actually starting and completing. So I get to impact who I was back then on a systemic level in the role that I have now at re up.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. I mean, like you said, your story is actually not uncommon. I was reading on the re up website, and I saw this quote that said that adult learners over the age of 25 make 38% of the total undergraduate student population in the US. This was from something that was posted in 2021, so it was data from prior to that. Those numbers, I'm sure, are way, way up now. So if that's such a big part of the student population, it doesn't make sense to me that that population is rendered so invisible in college campuses. And I'm wondering- because I know that you have partnered with institutions and to try to support this population. What can institutions do? There's so much that can be done from top down, bottom up. Like when it's from the students themselves who want to go back, to peers, to programs, to faculty, staff, and even up their admin. What kind of supports do these students need or benefit from?

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I love this question. I love it. First of all, let's talk about who these folks are likely to be- first gen, people of color often. Well, it could come- many folks from a variety of income backgrounds, for sure. But again, we're not talking about the typical- I'm thinking you might see on a TV show, for example, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

This isn't about Greek life and partying and whatnot. These are people who are often looking at school truly as social mobility- as opposed to personal fulfillment only, right? Like my children have the great privilege and benefit of only just worrying about their own passions and what not, and that's not why all people going to college. But when we acknowledge the fact that, let's say school might not be a top priority for everyone, because people have other responsibilities, that changes the way that we should be messaging to them, and reaching out to them, and supporting them.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

And what I've really appreciated about the approach that re up is taking is that we say from the outset when we're working with a campus partner- hey, for the population of students that we're reaching out to, we're not talking about a quick turnaround. This isn't like- hey, I'm gonna message you on Instagram, and have you come right back. We need to check in with you. Hey, Yvette, how's it going? How are things going with your family? How are things going with your job? Have you talked to someone about your desire to come back to college? This is going to be a long play. So if a school is only interested in quick turnarounds and gains, you're going to totally miss this population, and you're going to be frustrated.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Again, the other thing I'll say is we need to be thoughtful of how we're being student ready- and not just making sure the students are campus ready. I think that's really been the approach with this population. We'll sit here. We'll wait for them to contact us to say that they're ready, as opposed to be taking the initiative with the student. Last thing I'll say about that- I think the gap that reup is filling is that to be honest, a lot of schools don't have the bandwidth to do that. They don't have the resources, bandwidth, staffing, resources it takes to really truly reach out to this population. And that's the gap that re up fills. We have student success coaches and data and technology that can reach out to those students with an appropriate message. So it takes the heavy lift off of the institution.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And when you say that institutions, a lot of them are not equipped for this- does this primarily fall on the admissions- different offices on campuses, or are there...

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I mean, at some point, it's going to touch enrollment management regardless. But sometimes, it could be in academic advising or students success. Those are the common ones. But you got to have some kind of conversation with enrollment management at some point, though.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

But, again, enrollment management often is focused on the next incoming class, getting in those...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Or getting them in, but not necessarily retaining them.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah. I mean, I was a transfer. Were you a transfer? Ican't remember.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was not, no.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I transferred twice, and I know how it is as a transfer. Transfers often are lower on the priority list, and then below that, sometimes, often are these adult learners or stop out students. They often are transfers, but they just are lower down the list. It's harder.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, I can imagine there's also a lot of myths potentially about adult learners, non trad students. I'm wondering, what are some of those myths that you've heard about? What are some things that you wish that other people knew about this population?

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Number one myth is that they don't want to go back. And that's not true.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you for saying that. Thank you so much. I do think that's a very, very common myth. It's like- oh, if they wanted to come back, they would just contact us. It's not that easy.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It's not. That's why we have to meet them where they are, right? Here's what can happen sometimes. And again, I'll use myself as an example about not wanting to come back. I desperately wanted to go back to Howard University. However- I mean, look at how I was treated as well. There was some friction there for me, right? I really, really wanted to complete. I was working really hard. And I'm not saying this has to be the case. But I actually had really strong academics. I had a 3.8 GPA. I was an honor student. And Howard was just like, sorry. We can't help you. Like where was someone to reach back out to me and say, how are you doing?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Honestly, that would have made such a difference. If someone had just said- hey, La'Tonya, we see that you're not out. What can we do to support you? That's one of the big sort of misconceptions that we have about the population- that they're not interested, or like you said, if they were, they would say something. Then we also know is a very heterogeneous population as well. You'll see folks from all kinds of racial backgrounds- a lot of people of color, but certainly not exclusively people of color as well.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

So campuses have to show a level of empathy and creativity, change some of these policies for returning, for example. If you've already been a student there, do you have to go through that whole process? How can we remove the friction for those students- or even that policy that they had about my transcript, like holding up my transcripts and whatnot. It's ridiculous. Here I was, an honor student, 3.8. I could have been an alum of Howard- I mean, I am an alum. But I could have been a graduate of Howard University.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

And now University of Maryland gets all the credit.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was gonna say- their loss.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Their loss, yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, I get the sense that I have listeners who are themselves non traditional students, who are themselves adult learners, who- like you mentioned-some of them may be student parents. Some of them may be caring for dependents, other types of dependents.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

That's right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I'm wondering, if they they themselves are those types of students - or if someone is listening who maybe put a pause and has that desire to go back to college. Or even sometimes, it's graduate school, too. That's the other thing, too.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We're having a conversation about college. But there are a lot of folks who go to graduate school and they put a pause on that, or they leave when they're all but dissertation- when they're ABD. What kind of advice would you give to the individuals themselves who are at this particular crossroads, where they have felt in some way, shape, or form pushed out by the institution, but they have this desire to finish? What do they do? It's so hard, because like you said, not a lot of institutions have the level of support to really help to ensure every single person is retained and successfully finishes. So it sometimes is on the students to themselves seek out help, and it's hard. It's really, really hard.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Here's what I love, though, about working with this population. It's that sometimes, we don't have time for games anymore, right? I think about who I was when I started at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as a freshman, versus who I was by the time I got to university of maryland, which was my third institution. And mind you, I was married at that time- or close to being married. Some of those things that seemed important- joining a sorority or being liked- they weren't as important to me. I was much more focused, nad I had learned to really speak up and really advocate for myself. So you have to remember that you have it in you to do that. Even though the folks that are around you may appear to be younger or whatnot. You often know what you need and you have to be your best advocate.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Having said all that, that can be tiring at the same time. So I think it's really helpful to connect with people who are in similar situations. For better or worse, I think UCLA has done a really good job of bringing communities of students together- like at the Transfer Center. I'm just using UCLA as an example. Other schools do it too. But having a transfer center, having programs for students with dependents. Finding those types of communities are really important. But here's the thing. This is why so many so called non traditional and adult learners are at online for profit places- because they make those policies so easy. It's so easy to apply. It's so much harder to get into UCLA than it is to go to the University of Phoenix or Strayer or what have you, because they reduce that friction.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Now, having said that, you can get into those schools. But how many folks are completing? That's a whole other thing, because those schools ren't providing the actual human support that you also need to actually get through. So there's the getting in, and then there's the getting through. Then there's also the going on to graduate school part. I will say, I'm very proud of the fact that we were at the McNair program at UCLA- very intentional about identifying students with those so called non traditional backgrounds. Maybe they had worked for a while, or they had families, like Darlene Eglee, for example, a number of folks. So that they feel welcome, not like some kind of freak there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And those are the programs that really make a difference. That's why so many folks, to this day- it's some of my closest friends are folks that were in similar programs. That's how we met. Having that support- having the mentors, the femtors, having spaces where you're not the only one, that makes a big difference. You mentioned some of the examples, whether it's the students with dependents, or the transfer students center, or- I worked at UC Santa Barbara, and they have the ONDAS program, which is primarily for first gen students- both first gen and first gen transfer students. And that makes a big difference, to show up in a space where you see yourself represented in some way, shape or form.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It matters.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. And that's one thing too- if folks decide to go on to graduate school to look out for those resources too.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah, definitely ask. Ask for those resources. And look, family, I know it can be really tiring. But sometimes it's just not on the radar of the institution, and people can make a difference. At the same time, though, if people are feeling so much pushback, then that might not be the best fit for them, as well. It's one thing to say to an institution- hey, this is what I need. How responsive are they? That's really the next question.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. And no institution is the same.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

That's right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You said you started at Howard and then you went to Maryland. So just because you may have had a not so great experience somewhere doesn't mean you can't have a better experience and finish somewhere else.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's something I'm taking away. Yeah.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Well, you need to ask this question, too- we have to acknowledge that sometimes the institutions have caused harm, right? And how do we redress the harm? Again, that's where the human touch comes in. That's where the listening comes in. I may say to you, I'm not interested right now. But check back with me in a couple of months- and doing that. So being accountable, and actually following up. That just instills good faith. I'll say it again. If Howard had reached back out to me or helped me out, I'd be a Howard graduate. One of the reasons I chose to become a dean is because I first of all said to myself, if I was ever in a position to help a student the way a dean ended up helping me get into the University of Maryland, then I was going to do it. And then once I became a dean, realized- oh my goodness. Schools really can make some of this drama go away. I didn't say this. You know what I owed $1,100. That's all I owed them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh my goodness.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

$1100. And studnet LT was like, oh my god- because all I could afford was $50 a month. 50,50,50- that's a lot of months only paying $50 a month, right? Dean LT looked at that like, oh my gosh. You make that balance go away?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

If it meant retaining the student, you just you apply a grant or whatever. You give the student work, whatever. You make that happen. As a student, we don't often see that. We just see the bill that's in front of us. And like, okay- well, I guess I just gotta go to work. So yeah I feel like I've been very blessed and fortunate, both on an institutional level to make a difference and now like on a national, much bigger scale to really - like I said- give what I didn't have.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You just shared some hidden curriculum stuff right there

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Because as a first gen student, a lot of folks don't necessarily know that there are people that will advocate on your behalf, that some things you could potentially negotiate. Just like- I've gone on my own financial education journey, and finding out- oh, you can negotiate your healthcare bills? What? This is a thing?

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

This is a thing.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, finding out that you owed $1,100. There might be someone out there who owes a certain amount and thinks- I could never afford this, and also that it's not going to go away. Whereas you could talk to other people who could advocate on your behalf and maybe figure something out.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

You just don't know.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's the thing. A lot of us don't know to ask, and don't know who to ask, and don't know that there are folks out there willing to help. I'm just glad you mentioned that because a lot of it has to do with knowing to ask for help and then knowing who to ask. And then not giving up, because there are going to be a lot of barriers . There are a lot more barriers when you're saying the institution is not built to necessarily support these types of populations. So you have to put yourself out there a little bit more and a lot of us don't know that we can do that.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Leave it to me to tie this back to pop culture. I think this is why there's that moment in the last Spider Man movie that really resonated with those of us who are first gen. There's this moment where Peter goes to Dr. Strange. And Peter nor his friends got into MIT. So he goes to Dr. Strange, and he's like- hey, I need you to go back in time. Can you reverse time to a place where I wasn't the villain? So then, therefore, I can get into MIT. And then Dr. Strange says to him, did you just call? Couldn't you just call MIT and have them rethink your admission? And Peter's like, I can do that? When that movie came out, so many people tweeted me or texted me, like LT did you see this? I felt that you know. And it's just what you're saying. At that moment, Peter Parker is seeing the hidden curriculum. Like, oh, I was told I didn't get an MIT. Case closed. And I know that there's this other pathway, this other door. Like oh, no fool, you can just....

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Those are the side doors. I keep telling people- I'm like, remember there are front doors- what you see, that's in front of you, that's on the website. But then there are side doors

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That are only available if you network, if you build community, if you know folks, if you have your little group of folks who advocate on your behalf. And again, a lot of us get left out because we don't know. So thank you for reminding us, and bringing it back to pop culture too.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It's right there. Peter Parker- first gen working class hero, for sure.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We're gonna get close to wrapping up, but I wanted to see if there's any other closing words or advice that you have for folks who hear about these experiences and see themselves being reflected - whether they themselves have gone back or are thinking of going back. What kind of advice or closing words do you have for them, for folks thinking of returning to school- whether it's college, grad school, you name it.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Yeah, I'll just reiterate and stress something I said earlier. Number one, you have it in you to achieve it. For many of us- again, don't want to make assumptions necessarily- but many of us have overcome a lot of obstacles. And I suspect a lot of those obstacles are way harder than going to class to be honest. So keep pushing forward. And then number two, find your community and if you don't find it, build your community. I've had to do both, for sure. Never representing myself only when I'm in a space. I'm representing all the other people that helped me get there.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

But absolutely, there were times where I'd show up and I don't see myself represented. I don't see my people represented and I have to build the space. As rigid as sometimes these institutions can be, there is a level of fluidity sometimes too. And I'm always a glass half full person. I'm always an optimist, and I think there's often opportunity for us to create and to build as well. Sometimes it's not even in your home institution. For me, I do a lot of building in digital spaces, digital communities as well. So don't be afraid to do that for sure.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Speaking of digital spaces, for folks who really enjoyed this conversation and want to follow you, support your work, want to be in touch- how can folks reach you?

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

It's crazy. As you know, I'm everywhere all over the place. It always feels that way. It feels that way. It's crazy. For folks who are still on Facebook, we do have the empowering first generation Facebook group- 7200 people. It's crazy, all over the world at this point. It's a good place, especially if you have some questions or you're just wanting to identify best practices or find community. There's that Facebook group. And there's an Instagram called first gen and juice which is really focused on the representations of the first gen experience in mass media and popular culture. I am right now speaking to a Catalyst Award nominee from last year.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Grad school femtoring, nominated for best podcast last year- congratulations on that nomination. But yeah, we want to highlight and let people be more aware of the representations of first gen-ness in so many spaces- whether it's podcasts, TV shows movies like spider man, or books. So yeah, people can follow first gen and juice. And then I'm just on LinkedIn as well.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'll add all of that. It'll be in the show notes - your LinkedIn page, first gen and juice Instagram, the Facebook first gen Facebook group. And then of course, earlier today we talked about first gen legacy. We'll make sure to add the video as well.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's going to be so dope. Come talk about what it's like to be a parent.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm really excited. You've got so much going on.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

I'm blessed.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love it. Well, thank you so much, LT, for being a femtee- or a femtor, I'm sorry. I'm the femtee. A femtor to so many of us, and for coming on the show today. I loved hearing more about your backstory that I actually didn't know. And I think a lot of us are gonna benefit from this conversation on supporting non trad, supporting all the different types of populations- adult learners, reentry, stop off students, you name it. We all deserve that kind of support. So thank you so much.

Dr. La’Tonya Rease Miles

Thank you lady. It's a pleasure.