171: Overcoming Adversity As A First-Generation Entrepreneur with Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring Podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette, and today I have a really special episode for you all, all about the topic of overcoming adversity as a first gen entrepreneur. Our guest is Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson. I'm sorry if I said your name wrong.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

No you got it. You got it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Affectionately known as Dr. Eve. I'll be saying Dr. Eve from here on out. Dr. Eve was raised in beautiful Charlotte, North Carolina, by a single mom in a low socio economic household. She went on to become a first generation college graduate and earned a PhD at the age of 28. We've got some things in common there- single mama, getting our PhDs. I got my PhD around that age. And now Dr. Eve is also the founder and president of Evingerlean Worldwide, an entity created to empower first generation scholars and professionals across the globe. Dr. Eve is committed to being a champion for historically underserved communities, creating safe spaces for growth, making pathways for social mobility, disrupting generational poverty, and building wealth through entrepreneurship. Oh, that sounded so good. Welcome so much to the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Dr. Eve. I'm so excited. Can you tell?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Me too. I've been waiting for this for what feels like the longest time so I'm glad we finally made it happen. I can tell. I hope that you can tell because I'm just like, this is so great. And you're so wonderful. Thank you for being open to have me in your space, and for today finally happening.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. I feel so grateful with the timing. I think everything just turns out- it just happens on on its own time. Right now we're recording in December, but this episode is actually going to be released in January. You're going to be my first guest in the new year. I feel like that's such a great way to start off a new year, with you and with your story. I want folks to hear more about you. Because ever since I learned about you and your work, I've felt really inspired by you. I want other folks who- if they're not familiar with your work- to know a little bit more about you and what you do. And then if you're comfortable, I'd love to hear more about your backstory, about how you got to where you are today.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Wow, thank you for that again and inspired- I'm like oh my goodness, me? I'm just me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Stop.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

I'm for real. It's like, you just said that, me in the same sentence. But it's very affirming. Let me definitely tell you that. As two women of color, especially, to be seen and to be appreciated in the work that you do just really, really means a lot. But that backstory and how I got here, and all the things, you really laid it out beautifully. Where I'm from and how I was raised, and Evingerlean Worldwide being the company that I run. We're known for our brands- the First Gen Lounge podcast, the first gen shop, which is a first of its kind of store, celebrating the first gen identity and first generation university. We do our programming and training and consulting typically for organizations, and orking with entrepreneurs who are pursuing consulting and speaking as a part of maybe their side hustle or full time gig. So I've dibbled and dabbled in a lot of things. At the time of this episode airing, I'll be in my seventh year of being an entrepreneur full time, and it's definitely been not for the faint of heart. It's definitely an interesting experience.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But my background is in higher education. I loved everything I was doing in higher ed, but I used to feel like I wasn't supposed to be in one space. You ever have the feeling, like I'm supposed to be doing something different, something more, something else, but I don't know what? And I wasn't someone who typically stayed in a job very long, because when I knew I wasn't going to be there, I was out. At some point I realized it couldn't have been necessarily the field or the people, the places- which honestly, this day and age, I'm thinking maybe it is and maybe it wasn't just me. With the way people are leaving now, I was like goodness gracious. I just guess I figured it out first.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm one of those people.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

You one of those people. Yeah for me, I stayed as long as I could and did the best that I could. But I got to a point where I was not well- mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. And for me, it was just taking a year off to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I mean, I had gotten a degree, fully higher ed. I wanted to be a college president. I was like, let me just take a year and maybe there's something else. About three months in- trying to be Suzy homemaker and it just was not working. You hear me? That's not who I am. It's not my destiny. So I was like, why don't I just try the speaking thing, finally. I didn't have a blueprint for it or anything. I knew people who did speaking. But of course, I was a speaker. I wasn't an entrepreneur and I didn't have a business. So many things I was so blind to at the beginning. Entrepreneurship wasn't a part of the plan or the journey for me. I was literally taking off for a year, and then trid one thing, and it became another thing that's become a seven year journey, which has been really good. That's essentially the backstory of how I got here.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But why the work? That's the next question. I think being a professional, and feeling like, is it just me? And being in these professional settings and trying to navigate- nobody else had been in a setting like this where I was from. My mentors may have been, but of course, their framework for doing things, in my opinion, depending on who it was, was different. But I just kept realizing- it's got to be because I'm first gen. And I knew that I was first gen. I learned that in grad school, ironically. Oh, I'm first gen. So I knew it was something. I think it's because I'm the first, and here's where I come from and here's what I've been through. But how am I showing up and presenting in these spaces where I'm not a good fit, or it's not working, or I don't know professionalism well. Is it because I'm black?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

So I just wanted to know if anybody else- is anybody else feeling like this? And started the podcast in terms of - well changed the podcast. I had started it, but changed what it was to ask questions of others about their experiences. And 240 some odd episodes later, clearly, I'm not the only one. The work though, for me, in being first gen was inspired by my own experiences, and wanting to find community- but also to pour back into those who are like you and I, to make sure that we can thrive and excel in the spaces that we exist and just feel good about life. So long answer to your short question.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I think that a lot of the listeners of this podcast are going to relate to what you just shared about your first gen experience, about wondering, am I the only one? About not quite always fitting in in spaces, and about perhaps wanting more out of life, and kind of wanting to figure out what that next step is. And for you, from what I'm hearing, because I may have interpreted this incorrectly, but from what I hear about your pathway is that it wasn't a straight and narrow path into entrepreneurship. You were initially interested in- you were taking some time to kind of figure that out, and you were interested in speaking. And somehow, you figured out- okay, this is entrepreneurship. At some point in that trajectory- you're seven years in now- you're like, okay, I'm an entrepreneur. Like now, the way your bio, everything- we know, you're a first gen entrepreneur. It's clear.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm wondering, can you share a little bit more about that pivotal moment? Or maybe it wasn't a moment. Maybe it was a series of events that happened for you that made you realize, oh wow. I have pivoted into entrepreneurship, and I am an entrepreneur. And also, what does that even mean to you? Because I think that we all define it differently. It's such a broad field. Iit can mean so many things. There are also a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be an entrepreneur. I'd love to hear about your view of entrepreneurship, and also a little bit more about that pathway of becoming- because that's a big deal, that becoming process.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Goodness gracious. I want to say, girl, listen. I was just talking to one of my best friends this morning, and they asked me- hey, how are you? Essentially, I shared how I was doing, and I said becoming- was the last thing that I said.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

You're exactly right in that becoming, because for me, it was a series of events and things that were happening. One, getting paid. So you show up as a speaker to get paid. But there's some point where an organization may be like, hey, where's your business ID? And where's this? Where's that? Doing stuff on the side is one thing, just kind of like- I think some people say under the table, right? Not that I was under the table, but I'm showing up, I'm a speaker. I fill out this W4 form. I'm giving you my social security number. But wait, you need what? And now it's filing taxes, and now it's going to workshops and seminars.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

It was an ever evolving process- and I'm still evolving- but of learning, because again, I never set out to be an entrepreneur. But I wanted to be a speaker. Then you find out one day- oh, people have a speaking business. Because the folks that I knew were speakers. But wait a minute, this is a business? There's something more to this. There are leads to get in. There's contracts to sign- let's not even get on the contracts piece. There's negotiation. There's travel. There's the presentation itself, and then starting to learn about value, and worth, and outcomes, and so many things. At some point, you realize, oh, this is bigger. This is much bigger than when I thought it was.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And then you get asked a question, are you a small business owner or are you an entrepreneur? That's something that a friend said one day. It depends on where you are. It depends on what you lean toward. But there was something about the entrepreneur that stuck out to me- because I didn't know what entrepreneur was. Let's just be straight up straight up. When I started, I couldn't have defined entrepreneur for you at all. And this wasn't that long ago. But it's like, how else do you think businesses run? I don't know- managers. So oblivious, honestly oblivious, to even think about- yeah, how do people start businesses? Or how does this happen? Where do you get money from? And all these things?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

So entrepreneur because of the whole venture, and even me liking to do many things, not really sticking to necessarily one just small business- although that's what I have. But I have many things happening within that small business, right? So here we are. But for me more than anything, I can't tell you there was one moment, of course, that told me you are, this is what you're doing. This is what you're becoming. It was being exposed and talking to folks and figuring it out along the way. But I'm glad that it happened this way, because I've essentially done it my way. That's what's been really great about it. Yeah, that's where I'm at with it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When you say I've done it my way, what does that mean? I'm just curious to know a little bit more about the way that entrepreneurship looks for you. I think that there's a lot of - what's the word- maybe mystery, or just a lot of things that happen behind closed doors when you're entrepreneur that folks don't see. They only see what has been curated or what has been shared publicly. But there's a lot that goes on in becoming an entrepreneur. I would love for you to kind of maybe say a little bit more about that.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Of course. Let me approach it this way. What are you and I? When we look at each other, when you see me, what do you see?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

First gen women of color entrepreneur, edupreneur, multi passionate individuals. Go getters.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Okay, okay. I love that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We collect firsts- that's one line that I heard from another speaker on the podcast. Her name is Dr. Lisette Sanchez. She says I'm first gen. I collect firsts. And I love that. I think about that as first gen entrepreneurs.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

That's dope. I really love that. So now think about this. When you think about business, who do you think about? Who do you think about first?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Well, I mean, I think that from the public perception, I don't picture folks that look like you and I. But for me, personally, when I think of entrepreneurs, I also think of brick and mortar type of businesses. And I think about people like my mom, who's first gen- sorry, she's first gen in the US, Mexican immigrant in the US, who had to start her own brick and mortar business to make ends meet when struggling to get any other job. I know that a lot of other immigrant families have had to turn to entrepreneurship as a means of getting by. So I think about two things. I think about publicly the big names- not people that look like me. But then privately, intimately, personally, the folks in my surroundings, in my communities who have had to sell to support their families.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

I love that. Without I guess neccessarily realizing how much you hit the nail on the head, you did. Because how your mom had to do it, how I have to do it, how anybody else does it. People sometimes think it's one way- that you have to have brick and mortar, that you have to have a business partner, that you have to have a big team, that you have to have a large brand to be successful. And for me, what's important to me? What is success for me? What is making impact for me? I was fascinated with this online space. People- if you never realized it before, realize now. I am an online business. I have been online since I started. Yes, I go in person to go do my speaking engagements. But my store is online. My podcast is online. Everything. My university- when you go to that to get anything, my online courses, online programs, online trainings, everything has been online.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And even to be a Black woman in this space- because there are a lot of people who have businesses and they think, I'm going to start a business. I need to find a space. I need to get a loan. I need to have this. I need to do that. And I'm like- well no. What makes sense to me? What do I want to look like? Even down to my branding. You and I have talked recently about me coming onto the show, and I'm like, I don't have a full face. And I'm not this, and I'm not that. Because who you see right now is who I am.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

I had to get out of this idea that I needed to show up in a business suit and a blazer. Don't get me wrong, I love a blazer- love a blazer, love a denim jacket. But for me, I wanted to make sure that whoever I would be, that somebody like yourself in others could see themselves in me, that I could redefine what entrepreneurs look like. So for me to be in a hat with a hoodie on and my hoops, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love it.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And I'm an entrepreneur. It doesn't mean I'm not professional. It doesn't mean that I'm not skilled, because I'm all those things. I can deliver, and I know when to look like what and where. But for what it's worth, I want another woman who's comfortable, like I'm comfortable, to say I can be that and I can do that. And I don't have to look a certain part or be a certain way. So it was very important for me to not only foster a space in this online world where I'm seeing many people who don't look like me, making bank honey- big bank, okay? They do live events here. They do things. But I'm like, this feels right, because I can be remote. I can work in Dallas, or I can go to New York, or I can work in California. And I've never been a person- like we talked about shortly, just recently- I've never been somebody who's been bound to a space.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

So it didn't make sense to me to try to do a brick and mortar, because I wasn't going to be happy with that. I'm happy that I can still fulfill orders- and granted, there are some things that still have to be traditional in some ways. But I don't have to worry about storefront things or that overhead that comes with it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

There are other things that I do have to worry about. But nonetheless, it just works for me. Hire a team. Hire your people to do your fulfillment. And I can be fulfilling stuff or getting things done from a completely different state while I'm working on a speaking engagement. There's things that work for me. But the point being, I don't want people to get so tied to - because this person did it this way, I have to do it this way.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Do it the way that makes sense to you and learn and pull from the things that make sense.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

So that's where we are with it. And not every person who's doing this is a white male.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We're here to show that.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

We're here to show that, absolutely.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

For the folks who are listening on a podcasting app, I want to encourage you all to check out the video - because this is going to be on YouTube as well- so that you can take a look at how awesome Dr. Eve looks with her cute hoops and her cute Dr. Eve hat, and her cute swag with the black hoodie.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Thank you. Yes, girl, yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Can you tell us what your sweater- I see millionaire. But what does it say- future...

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yes, future first generation millionaire.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Nice, nice. I love that.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Thank you. And it's in the shop, so if you plan on being a future first generation millionaire, go ahead and cop you one. Represent.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes, we'll add a link to the shop in today's show notes for sure. We're here to also talk about first gen entrepreneurship and adversity in entrepreneurship in particular. I'm in that steep learning curve right now. I'm only a year into this full time entrepreneurship journey. So I'm really feeling the adversity right now. But I'm wondering for you, seven years in, what has adversity looked like for you? What are some of the major hurdles? I'm assuming there's more than one? Because I know that's true for a lot of folks who are in entrepreneurship and have stayed over the years- because not everybody stays. So yeah, what are the some of the major hurdles that you have overcome, or that you're in the process of overcoming?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

I definintely appreciate that question, because we should talk about this more clearly, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Back in the beginning, just getting started and not knowing what to do- so many people think that your first year- like some folks, oh I made 10k in the first five months or the first two months. No, I didn't. I didn't make nothing, because I was trying to figure it out. How much did I have to give for free, and what is it like to build this business? You know, being B to B, or B to C. Who's my ideal customer avatar. When you don't know those things- I was just figuring stuff, figuring it out, trying to know what to do, who to talk to, how to communicate. Again, how I could help solve problems within these organizations so that they would want to hire me and bring me in. Hell, even asking to be hired, to pitch yourself at all, to say, I've got these amazing talks. And to establish for me at the time, what my talks were versus I can talk about anything for everybody because I just need to get out there. Whereas I had to get more laser focused, right?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But that challenge, and just not knowing who to turn to, or what questions to ask because I didn't feel like I had those resources now did I have a business background, to even be like, okay, I need to start here. So it was really YouTube and Google that got me started, and going to seminars and meeting people, and finding out who around me were entrepreneurs. And beginning to again, take in all the knowledge that I possibly could. I had a personal situation happen, which kind of set me back for a couple of years. Again, personal life happens. People are going to pass.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

There are going to be financial things that may come up. Sometimes, it may be stuff with health that comes up that puts you in a space where you can only do so much. The difference between even at the time being a solopreneur, and then having a team. Typically, my team is made up of those who are contractors. It works for me for where I am in my business. But at the time, if I stopped, my business stopped. And that's something that a lot of people don't really get to think about or don't really consider. Like, if I'm out of the office, no emails are getting answered. No phone calls.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Versus, for others- that's again, something that can stop. But you've got to build to get there. Then when I got to a place where your girl was- every weekend, I'm in Texas. I'm in New York. I'm going to California. I'm going to DC. I'm going to different parts of North Carolina- the penny hit. Nobody could have prepared me to watch my business crumble overnight. So hear I was- not because I did something wrong, not because I said something absurd on social media, not because I offended anybody, not because I failed to deliver on something. It was literally the act of God that are in contracts that can get everybody out of them- everybody could be out of it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Because at this point, who'd have ever thought. And I had finally felt like I made it, like was getting to where I needed to go in the ways I needed to,. and was feeling fantastic about it. I had to really grieve through the loss of a business that I had been building at this point, I want to say for four years. How do I even figure this thing out, because I don't have many tangibles, because I'm service oriented. But even the tangibles- because in service, people started cutting stuff off. Services were the first things to go. Most people will tell you that. Then we think about the speaking engagements, if they're not having these- and people aren't prepared to move to virtual. Though I'm prepared, because I've been zooming. I told somebody, we used to joke- oh we've been quarantined the whole time? Like what? Because I've always had online meetings.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

A way of connecting people just through zoom. I was very familiar and ready to go, but others were not. So there was no way to essentially pivot more smoothly. And all I had that was tangible at the time was a book. Even trying to convince people of more the online programs that I had yet to really develop- because I'm like, I'm out here speaking right now. I'll get to that later. How do you save yourself? Then to think, I can't call family and say I need 50k to get through this.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

I need 100k to invest in this. And let me turn it up on my ads a little bit for this, because I'm not running Facebook ads. I'm B to B. I'm looking for my people in different spaces through referrals and LinkedIn. And here I am. You left your job, your comfortable salary some years ago, to be able to pursue this entrepreneurial thing. And yet, stuff just keeps happening. So what do you do? Things are going to come up.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But I'll tell you this. I've always had in mind this vision that- it's just, I can't shake it. I can see what's there for this business, and what I'm doing. It still feels unbelievable, because I'm thinking with what I've had to be able to do any of it, how the hell did I get here? But it's like I know. There's a knowing right? That's helped me to get through all of it, and say - this didn't work. Now what next? So I have no speaking engagements. I'm gonna cry and boohoo, and cry and boohoo. And these contracts, one by one- hey, we're gonna have to reschedule. We're gonna have to cancel. And I'm like, I can't tell you no.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But there goes 5K. There goes six. There goes your livelihood and your wellbeing. And you you can't even say when anything is going to turn around for you to even be able to get back on your feet. So okay. What can I do now - while I'm crying and boohoo-ing- what can I offer now to do something? Okay, here comes the first online course. And people were gobbling it all up in the beginning. Then eventually, people got exhausted of online programs.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

So it's just been a wave, even to now. The greatest adversity is I'm growing. Gotta get more people, got to find more money and funding to be able to do things that only was online before. But now it's requiring that I'm going to have to maybe find a warehouse to put stuff in for the store to fulfill some of these large orders that are coming in, because of how things have grown. And out of the pandemic, came the shop.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

One of the best things I've ever done for my business. But now I've got tangibles, things that people like. I mean, they love the speaking and stuff too. Don't get me wrong about that. But something that - people like to hold on to things.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

So how do I do that? Now thinking insurance, contract versus employee versus distance, versus all kinds of things. But I love it. It's the only thing that's kept my attention. Again, just to give you the fullness of what that's been and how I'm overcoming. I know that it's something greater than me. I have a vision. And though it's not crystal clear, I just- this feeling of the people I'm supposed to touch and the way I'm supposed to touch them. It's there, and I refuse to let anything stop me. That's how you get through it. And you ask questions to people around you who have experiences and ideas and things that they can offer to you. I'm willing to be vulnerable and say, I need some damn help. Or hey, I don't know what I'm doing with this, can somebody. Or hey, I just need to cut this off, because it's not working. And that's what's gotten me to seven years, and I'm praying for- I want to say 70 more, but I'm not sure at this age. But you know, I'll take it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's wild because, you know, earlier you mentioned that you wouldn't stay in your jobs long, because you know you were ready for the next thing. And now that you're in entrepreneurship, I don't get that sense. You're saying 70 more. Because there's so much that you can do with it.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

There's so much growth. That's the potential that's there.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Another thing that I heard in what you were sharing just now is a strong sense of conviction. Oerhaps what some people call a calling, or a sense of intuition, or following your gut, or listening to the voice in the back of your head- not the limiting belief one, but the one outside of that, behind that.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I can't help but think, how do you arrive at this moment where you trust in yourself enough to listen to that voice, to have that strong sense of conviction? Because I know I can relate to that. I have this strong feeling of like, I know why I'm doing what I'm doing, who I'm trying to support. This is bigger than me. I want to make a bigger impact. It feels like it sounds silly to say, but it feels like a calling. It's bigger than even me. And I mean, I don't know how to tell others- just listen. I mean, I say it all the time. Listen to your gut. Listen to your intuition. Trust yourself. Your body has years and years of experience- even outside of your lived body, like the experiences of your ancestors too.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Ooh, come on now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm like, how do you teach this stuff? As solo educators, how do we encourage folks who maybe have that voice too, but they're just not quite- maybe they aren't feeling as confident, or maybe they- I don't know- need a little bit more experiences to trust in themselves a little bit more. But yeah, where did that- where does that come from? Where did that sense of conviction come from? I don't even know if there's an answer to that.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yeah, you just dropped the ball today in a good way. Well, I want to say another B word- and not the bad word. But B, O, M, B. But I don't want to be in trouble. We're not doing anything wrong here- because you know they be listening.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But you just know. You just know. Like you knew. You knew. At some point- and I used to say this to people. At some point, it becomes too painful to do what you're doing now. It becomes too limiting. It becomes too burdensome. It becomes too much, and you just can't stay trapped or wrapped up in this thing. And you just know. When I'm going to listen to this show, maybe six months, a year from now, and be like, girl- because I mean, again, if only you knew. Because there are things in my life now- just to be very candid with you about- that, how do I know that I'm ready. But then you look back and think- at every moment in time, didn't I trust myself or didn't I know something? Wasn't there something that just grabbed you, right? And made you say, I got to. I got to. I'm scared. I don't know. I don't feel like I have all the answers. But something's got to change.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Until people get that uncomfortable, and until that that voice becomes from little- like little little Stuart to Shrek, and screaming, people aren't going to change. But they've got to realize that what you're looking for is typically on the other side of fear. And I am seriously thinking about talking to you about this out loud. I'm thinking, my gosh. I can't wait to hear this and see where my life is six months and a year from now, because of this very question. How do you know? Just all of this- how do you know? How do I know that I'm ready to hire somebody in person, like in the States. Because I do outsource across these four various things.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But how do I know that this warehouse is a really good idea? How do I know that I'm really going to hit this six figure mark at this particular time, just for this one part of the business alone? How do I know? I don't know. But I do know. Because the way I'm changing., the way that I'm moving- like you said, and I love the perfect word. The conviction is just too much. It's too strong. I've thought several times- take your ass back to work. Just go back to work. Make it easy.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Get your insurance. Get your little check. But I'm thinking, do you know how beautiful my life is right now? Do you know the joy? And like you said, I can't see myself doing anything else. Even the thought of going back to work, that's painful for me. Physical pain comes to me when I think about that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, my god. When you say that-

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Relatable?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes. I mean, as someone who is chronically ill- I am someone who's chronically ill. And I literally get stomach aches at the thought of going back.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Because it's like- again, it hasn't been perfect.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Who's funding these things? I'm so funded. I've gotten a couple of grants. I've taken out a couple of loans. I've done things. But as soon as it comes in, it goes out. Then people say, oh, you're making all this money. But there are operational expenses.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

That yall haven't accounted for. People can say- I made six figures. But how much of that was profit? So don't be fooled by the six figures. But point being-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Can we-

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

You want me to get into that?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Well, a little bit. But what I want to get to is, going back to this conversation about-there's a lot of stuff that folks don't know about entrepreneurship. Like one thing is- it's one thing how much the business makes. And it's another thing how much you make. A lot of folks are making just a fraction of what the business comes- because of having to pay taxes, and overhead, and all these other things that you're paying for that no entity, no institution, is paying for your zoom, or your bookkeeping.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You're paying for that. But I guess the bigger question for me is not just that, that conversation of folks have this impression that you might be making a lot more than what you actually might be making. And two, that there is a problem with wanting to make a lot of money. But what do you wish that others knew about entrepreneurship, who haven't pursued this path? Because there are a lot of misconceptions, and there is a good deal of judgment. I know, I've experienced that. I've felt that from folks in higher ed spaces. When we've been kind of taught this message of like, be happy with the breadcrumbs that you get, and you should be doing things for the love of it, and not necessarily for the pay. I remember hearing someone who was a colleague of mine, who would say- oh, we don't do this for the money, because we don't make any. Then everybody would just laugh. And I used to think it was funny. I don't think it's funny anymore.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But it's - laugh at it, though. You laugh at it. Because you couldn't have convinced me that I needed to care about money.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Because do good. And who am I to think that I should make money? Because I don't come from money. Now I'm like, okay, yall can kiss my ass with that. Because at this point, money is a tool. Money is a resource. And wealth is important, because think about how many of us come from these tremendously difficult, adverse backgrounds, whose parents are leaving us nothing because they don't have it to leave. So all of our lives we spend hustling and bustling trying to make it to have a better life and take care of them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We're in the sandwich generation. Taking care of our parents, and then if we have our own kids, taking care of them too. Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yup. Then how do you prioritize? How do you tell mom, or cousin, or brother or sister no. When you know that they may not have it, right? How do you set that boundary?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But then you out here taking trips and living your best life and buying $10 honey. So there's things that you know, when you think about entrepreneurship- really for me, it's freedom. Freedom is my number one value. It's also the potential for wealth, because if I'm in a job and I just got my doctorate, or I just got this certification, and you only gonna give me two or $3,000 in my raise- and I still am going to have taxes taken out of that, and insurance, and I still have to do all the things. It is an opportunity. If you even see how the tax system is set up, it's set up for business.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

People are out here mad about some of these political things with businesses. I'm like, beause yall don't know. There's a reason- if you think about our foundation as a country. It hit me like a ton of bricks a few years ago. To be married, to have children, to have a business, that is the American dream. That's the real American dream. And if you can figure that out- because of the tax write off that you get for stuff, for business, just alone. You're like, I can write what off? Do what? And that's fully legal?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When I first learned about that stuff, I thought it was a joke. I was like, what? No way.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And it's no joke.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

It's no joke, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was like, are you sure? Are we gonna get in trouble?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Because it's written in black and white?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But because we don't know- so let me work my job. Let me work two and three more jobs. Let me get more good money.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Okay well, the New Year's coming, let me increase my price. Let me give myself my own raise, and then let me make sure that I can assure the quality of life that I'm looking for. So me having to change my prices for things is a reflection of me keeping up with the industry, knowing the value and understanding what I'm bringing to the organization in terms of helping them reach their goals.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And if I know people who don't look like me are charging two and three times more than what I'm charging at some of the same places? Come on now. You can't play me for boo boo the fool no more.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But even for what it's worth, entrepreneurship, and operationally, I'm charging this cost because I have costs. I have people to pay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

I have ring to do. I have insurance. I have computers. I have leases. I have gas. I have paper, and I have conferences, and I have vending. I have licenses.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

People don't think about that. Maybe you're reaching out- and oh, I can pay $500 for this. Baby, that don't take care of my podcast editing. That don't help. It's like, I appreciate the thought. And to feel like- especially as women of color and people who come from educational backgrounds that we're supposed to do people favors in corporate spaces.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Then on top of that- I mean, I've had far fewer people in corporate spaces reach out to get something for free than I have in education, nonprofit spaces. Because of course, the mindsets in the world are completely different. Whereas for this nonprofit space, we need to ask and get as much as we can free because we don't have the money. Corporation organization will reach out- hey, we're looking to get 500 of this, and it's paid. Whoa. I'm not used to this.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But I can get used to it. There are things that, even if you're thinking about entrepreneurship, and again, how you want to function. If it's real estate, if it's classes and courses and certifications in your local government, and your LLC fees. You have to fund it all.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yup.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Your business has to fund it all. I don't get the luxury anymore- because this is a luxury, if you think think about it- to go to work. And maybe you can pay for this conference. But I can know my office is going to be totally decked out in the way that it needs to be. But I gotta buy that furniture now. Now when an employee is sick, I've got to pay for that other person to come in and do whatever thing needs to be done. And let's not even talk about the human resources piece, and finding the right contractors and people to do the work.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And what that turnover looks like. Then having to find another, and how that can hold up a project. I can talk for days about this. Maybe we can do a part two. But I will say service based and product based. And if it's product, if it's suppliers, if it's vendors, if there's supply chain demand- I think it was Canada who ran out of lettuce. So they got sandwiches sitting in the little thing, the display, with no lettuce on them. They were like, we have a lettuce shortage. Well what do you do when shipping delays are happening? And again, stuff is not being imported within enough time. Then there's gas stuff. There's so many things to think about. But industry matters. Then again, consulting, service based versus product based- there is a vast difference. One with services, you can make far more money in terms of that profit margin. But then with products, while you can sell more, you may have a smaller profit margin because of what you've had to invest in it. So there's a lot. There's a lot.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It is a lot.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

But it's also why I stay in this,, because I never stopped learning or growing or finding something that I'm kind of like- oh my goodness, that was amazing. And I get high off of it. I'm like, give me another fix. But it is beautiful, because you realize too how powerful you are as well. The other thing is I'm not limited to serving here. I serve a global market. Yes, I have to think about so many things. But it keeps me sharp and keeps me open. Thank you for that question. I know I'm a little long with these, but I'm like she's asking good questions.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh no, I'm glad. That's what I wanted you to share, because we're not having these conversations enough. There's a lot. There's a lot that is left unspoken. And there's a lot of questions that I know that before I went into this world and pursued this, I was often wondering, so how does it work? Why do they charge so much? They must be making so much money if they're charging this much hourly. And I had that judgment too, of like, how dare they. But now being on the other side of things, I realize that a big part of it was being caught up in an environment full of scarcity, that it was hard for me to see outside of that.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Then once I got out of the scarcity and the toxicity of certain spaces- I'm not saying all academic spaces are this way. But a good amount of them are.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

There's some really good ones out there. Shout out to them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. But being outside it, I realized, oh wow. There are so many opportunities out there that I didn't even realize, because again, I was made to feel like- you should be grateful for what you're getting. You should be grateful for this job. You should be grateful for this salary that's under market- only to find out I was getting paid almost $30,000 less than my predecessor. Stuff like that, where I was like - I don't know about this.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

That happened to me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Once I was outside of it, I could think more clearly about kind of why I was feeling that way, why I was making those those judgments. And I want folks to know. I want folks to have a better idea and to also have another option. Because your background is also higher education, just like I am. We probably have a love of learning. What I love about entrepreneurship that you just shared so clearly is that there is never a time you're not learning. It is never boring.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And the sky's the limit in terms of what you can do with it. It's just another option for folks to think about. They don't necessarily have to go this route. Maybe it's a little bit too much right now, hearing all this. It's like, I don't know if I want to sign up for that. But I know there might be a couple of folks who are listening to you, who are listening to our conversation and thinking, maybe I want to go that route. Or maybe I hadn't thought about it, but now that I'm hearing about it, maybe I want to go and try it out. My next question for you is what words of advice do you have for folks who are a little curious or interested? Or maybe they're already on that path through a side hustle, and they're thinking about maybe making this a full time career?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Tthat's really good. Your business can fail. But would it be better to find out what could have been than to never know? So take the chance, explore it. See what can happen at the very least, because me getting to this seven year mark was because I wanted to explore an idea and see what could come of it. And the part I didn't say that I told my spouse- hey, let me just see the year. Let's get to two years. If it's not anywhere by two years, and then three years- and he's fully supported me in that. Because there was more to be curious about and more to do and more to learn and be exposed to. I just couldn't stop. I got addicted. But I wouldn't have known had I not taken the chance, had I not been willing to do what was uncertain. Because I didn't know. But you have the ideas. You have the skills. You have the ability. You just gotta try. And again, it's better to have a failed business than a dream that may never come true. That's a bar. Run this back.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's better to have a failed business than a dream that never comes true. That was so good.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Goodness gracious. I just hit myself with that one. Glad I did. But really, at this point, you know, I can say that I tried. If for whatever reason I do decide that- let me just go ahead and choose a softer life, and move into a corporation- which is what I would do honestly, after this go around. I got my eye on tech, because I really want to partner more with tech companies. Because again, they are just really innovating in some special ways. But point being, I could. But at least I would know. But it's also knowing and seeing what's happening that I just don't want to stop. That could happen, but you have what you need within you. You have what you need within you. Don't doubt it. Just go for it.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

And you don't have to rush. I'm not in a rush anymore. This is a lifelong thing that I'm in. I'm not trying to hurry up and move to director in two years or get to president in 10. I'm just on a journey, and I'll build it nice and slow. Then it'll get real big. I mean, it's gotten bigger than I thought now. But I never really had a true thought of how big. I started thinking numbers in the past few years. And I'm like, golly. But don't sleep on your journey yall. Don't sleep on it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That was so great. You shared so many gems, so many quotes that I can pull out from just that one answer, that one response to that question. It's been really, really nice having this conversation with you. I know that folks who may be introduced to you for the first time are going to want to hear more from you. For folks who want to stay in touch, who want to follow your work, want to support everything that you do, how can they follow you? How can they reach you?

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Absolutely. So I am, like I said, in these internet streets, or innanet streets. I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, all Eve Hudson PhD. In any one of those you find, you can get links to my websites, be it the first gen shop, the first gen lounge, or first generation university. I mean, a quick Google search as well. But if you look either one of those ways- I ain't tryna make it too hard. But anywhere you are that I am, Eve Hudson PhD would probably make it the easiest.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Nice. I will make sure to add the links to your websites and to your socials in the show notes so that folks can easily find you. Well, that was our conversation. I want to thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for sharing all your words of wisdom, knowledge, experience. I feel like I learned a thing or two myself as well as a relatively new entrepreneur. So thank you. I'm so glad we made this happen, and I'm excited for folks to hear more from you and to follow and support your work.

Dr. Evingerlean D. B. Hudson

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you again just for the opportunity, because I know that it's your space, and to have me is an honor. I appreciate what you do and how you do it. And I really pray and hope- and I believe- that hat you have going on is going to continue to flourish in ways that it's gonna just make you sit sometime, and be like, my goodness. So stay the course. Stay the course. And again, thank you for this opportunity.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you.