167: The Urgency of Mother-Scholar Activism in Grad School with Janay Garrett

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette. Today, I have an episode that's actually really meaningful to me, given my own experience in grad school when I birthed my first child. We're going to be covering the topic of mother-scholar activism and mother work in graduate school. Our guest, who's going to be sharing more on this topic, is Janay Garrett. Janay is a mother of three fierce, beautiful and bright children, ages one, three, and five. Mother of three- I have so much respect for that. Currently in Connecticut with her husband, James, she is passionate about writing, scholarship, mentorship, and improving community contexts and supports under which families grow, including education, housing, environment, and community connection. Welcome to the podcast Janay.

Janay Garrett

Thank you. It's such an honor.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Likewise. I'm so glad that you said yes, and that you're here and we're gonna have this conversation. Ffor me, I feel like it's overdue because mother work and mother scholarship and activism is really meaningful to me. I would love for you to get started with just sharing a little bit more about who you are, what you do, maybe a little bit about your background and backstory, anything you're comfortable sharing about what got you to be where you are today.

Janay Garrett

Sure, thank you. Let's see. I always either go from the present to the past or past to the present. I think I'll start in my hometown today. I'm from Stockton, California. It's a growing city, very racially and ethnically diverse. I learned in my adulthood- very conservative, socially conservative, which I learned much, much later. I have a sister, Barbara. I'm the daughter of my mother, who was a single mother for some time, and my stepfather, who joined our life when I was about seven. I remember most of my childhood being raised by my grandmother, my great grandmother, on my mom and my dad's side. So raised by a Black seventh day adventist family from the south. Saturdays with great cooking, and family and community around me. I went with my great grandmother to serve at the food bank. I just remember being a family of service, whatever that meant to my families at that time. My grandmother was Catholic and then Pentecostal.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh wow.

Janay Garrett

On my mom's side- which is a very stark difference.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

But in each of those communities, I would say that motherhood, mothering was central. The matrilineal line for us was central. Cooking and being in community with each other was central. And I feel like it's something that as a young person, I probably really took it for granted. I lost my great grandmother and my grandmother very young. I think it wasn't until my adulthood that I started to see other mothers in community and in activism, and longing for reconnection to my great grandmother, my grandmother. The folks who really came around us as a family to be sure that as his children, we're safe and nurtured. But to also be sure that whatever my mother needed, as a young mother, as a single mother, that she had. Regardless of her resources, or regardless of her story, or whatever she had or didn't have that she wanted for us. Our grandmothers, our community provided for us.

Janay Garrett

So, anyway, I'm from Stockton. I went on after Stockton to Princeton. I went on to Cal State Long Beach. I went on to Penn, and still feel like a stranger to those places because of how different the community was there compared to what I was raised in- in terms of wealth and access. But what I will say is in those spaces, when I was a mother, when I became a mother, they were always other mothers or other grad students who were also navigating that in the same way. I think that's what really brought me to mother work and mothering in grad school as a central focus, both of study but also of understanding and meaning making for me.

Janay Garrett

And I would say it was always there, because in undergrad I studied sociology and education. I was always interested in the family unit as a conversation or relationship to education. Not knowing that one day, that would be ultimately the course of study I chose, and what shaped my own family, my own development as a mother. So here I am now in Connecticut. I am in my sixth year in grad studies at Penn. We have again, one, three and five year olds. My husband and I are both working at a charter school in Bridgeport, and serving babies and building safety in a school while also building safety for our family, which is a really special and different kind of orientation at this point in our lives.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow. That's so multi layered. And it's so interesting too, because I didn't know that about your background. I didn't know that this all really is generational, and it's across the lineage of your- you said your grandmother, your great grandmother. And that it's been an interest of yours for as long as you can remember- even tying back to undergrad. It's helpful to hear that, to hear that perspective, because I didn't come to it with that same kind of background.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

For me, it really started with my experience. Then from that experience, came the interest. My experience, specifically giving birth. Although I do have the matrilineal background- my tias, my abuelitas, and growing up with your grandparents, especially grandmothers and great grandmothers. So thank you for sharing about that. I want you to maybe share a little bit more, since you said you're coming at it as an area of study as well. For folks who are maybe not as familiar with these terms- mother works and mother scholar in particular- can you tell us a little bit more about what they mean to you or how you define them? How you work with these terms? Why that choice of those terms?

Janay Garrett

Sure, absolutely. I always like to start with my experience at Cal State Long Beach. I got my masters at Cal State Long Beach. I was there from 2014 to 2016. I started right at the height of the Black Lives Matter movement. And I would say I was not as conscious as people know me to be now. Wen I tell this story, people are like- what? You? These are not theories you were connected to? These are not stories you knew? These are not ideas you knew? I was just not. I wasn't as connected as I am now. What I mean by that is the Mike Brown story was my first really entry point into kind of the Black Lives Matter movement, but particularly the work that people had been doing prior to that around police, and black lives, and community- and policing and community.

Janay Garrett

I remember that fall, Dr. Lindsay Perez Huber and Nina Flores were our mentors, were the ones who brought us in. And they gave space for us that day, the day of the court case. I tell this story often. I remember being in Cal State Long Beach's- there's a bar that's there, a student bar. And I remember looking around and people are jovial, right? They're eating. They're drinking. They're talking. There's music playing. And I'm peeled at my computer, trying to watch the news.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Then we go to class, and we're all like, okay, what's going to happen? And I remember Dr. Flores being like, hey, I know what's happening right now. I'm open to just us processing together. If you need something to do after class, I'm here. So that night, I remember watching. I was watching at a friend's house, and being like, I'm going to the freeway in LA. That is happening tonight. They were just like, hold on. You're new to organizing. This is planned. This is organized. That's not something that you're going to do tonight. We're going to talk through this. We're going to support you. And if you need to find ways to engage in activism in a traditional sense that people know the wore, like now, we'll plug you in places where you can kind of learn.

Janay Garrett

I would say that that kind of threw me into a trajectory of understanding- or wanting to understand - how people become engaged in transformative change- whatever that looks like. Whether people decide that politics is activism, or people decide scholarship is activism. Whatever the form looks like.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

I was really interested in that process of coming to- I have to be engaged in some sort of change. So I started organizing with BLM LA and Long Beach. I attended my first action in Berkeley that fall. And of course, at these actions, I'm seeing children who were chanting Assata Shakur, very, very clear on what's happening. But not overwhelmed by what's happening. They're developmentally sound around what's happening for them. So Dr. Melina Abdullah at CSU LA was a mentor and friend of mine. And I attended a panel where she was talking about her daughter saying, oh, I'm not going to do homework because this woman can't teach me any - this white woman can't teach me anything about being a Black girl. She can't teach me anything. She laughed- Melina laughed- and she's like, I know my daughter, and I knew she just wanted to get out of homework.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

She knows what to say.

Janay Garrett

She's like- so I made her do her homework that night. But what it signals is that she has a certain vernacular around what my advisor would call read, recast and resolve. She can read the world racially. She can restoriate or recast it for herself and find a path through, right? So I was like, okay. I was not dating at the time. I was not married - which I am now, obviously, with my kids. And I wanted to know- well, how do I raise a kid like that? That's literally my entry point into my - at that point, now, eight years of study. Like, okay, how do you raise - as I was calling it then- a critically conscious child?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Like, what does that mean? So I started talking to mothers of the movement, as I would say. Mothers who considered activism as central to their parenting. And what they told me was that they were creating spaces for their children that didn't already exist. They were kind of re-educating their children around stories that they were learning, either in school or in other spaces, that kind of weren't true to Black families in the United States. Some folks gave examples of what we would call, I would guess, media literacy now. Where it was like, oh, we're talking about Katrina. They read a book about Katrina. My son comes home to ask me this question. And I was there- the mom. I was there at Katrina. So I showed him YouTube videos. We compared it to the story. Then I showed him YouTube videos of narratives of people there, and we compared. Then my son made a choice for himself about what that meant for him, his own understanding.

Janay Garrett

From there, I was just like, okay. These mothers are phenomenal educators. If we considered their work in schools, how different the experiences for Black children and families would be in public schools. If we considered their work as curriculum. If we considered their work as a practice of educating, our schools and those experiences would look radically different. And from there, I was like, I need a developmental understanding. Because personally for me, at 30- well, then I don't know how old I was. At 34, I still have things from my childhood come up for me that impact me- good, bad or otherwise. I wanted to understand- what if there was a racial moment, or a trauma, or an experience around mothering, or parenting, that then comes up for you later? How is that situated within this conversation about consciousness? But how is it also situated within a conversation about life course and development over time?

Janay Garrett

That brought me to Penn to study human development. In the Human Development program that I'm in, you get your traditional human development. What I mean by traditional is you get the science of- what is adolescent development? What is childhood development? What are the benchmarks and milestones of development and learning and growing? But it's called interdisciplinary studies, because a lot of us take up our own interests and find ways to kind of infuse it into our understanding of development. So I came in with this knowledge of critical race theory, and systems and understanding of racial difference in the world, and the way that systems impact people of color and families of color.

Janay Garrett

And wanting to understand, how do we take that- our systems knowledge, and a knowledge of human development- and consider what maybe empathy looks like? Maybe what care for children looks like differently? What supportive families looks like differently? Or even just what our understandings of - what I call a practitioner, a sort of justice practitioner. How do we can reconsider that even? Like how hard that can be for people with trauma. That was what I had come into Penn saying I was gonna study. I wanted to know how development impacts the things that I had already studied. And six months- not even six months, maybe three months into starting my program- we were like, oh. We have a baby on the way.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, wow. And that was their first child?

Janay Garrett

Yes. That was our first. We moved to Philly in September- or August, early September. And I would say by October, we had found out about our daughter. So it was quick. It was really quick.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Janay Garrett

And then I was like, I'm not taking a break. I'm the mom. She's going to my classes. I did that for all- I love that you laugh, because you know that, right? I was like, no, I'm not. I don't need - no. I came here to do my PhD. So we had our daughter, and then in 2017, we had our son. Then in 2019, we also had our-or no. Did I do that wrong? Yep. 2017, we had our daughter. 2019, we had our son. And then 2021, we just welcomed our baby, Joie.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Janay Garrett

Yeah, and it has radically changed my understanding of family development, mothering, motherhood, mother work. That was a long way to tell you how I got here. But I hope it was okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I want to hear more. I would love for you to expand more on that, on how that experience has also shifted or influenced the way that you're studying your topic, and the way that you're thinking about development, family systems? Yeah, all of that.

Janay Garrett

Sure. I would say that I had like a- I was thinking a lot about intergenerational care and connection when I started studying motherhood. But it wasn't until I had my son- and it was at the height of the conversations about the separation at the border, when the encampments were being set up.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

There were these really awful stories of children just being disappeared from their families, etc. And not that this isn't a part of the history before that point, right? But it was just constantly in the media, and constantly present in our consciousness. I was pregnant with my son, and I was doing my comps paper. And I found the Chicana mother work anthology. Prior to that, I had been looking at- in developmental psychology, there's matrescence, which is just the transition to motherhood. It has several domains around change in mothering or motherhood in a person's life when they birth a child. I still use matrescence as a part of frameworks that I kind of infuse, because it's a specifically psychology, developmental psychology, framework.

Janay Garrett

I was also looking at reading, of course, a lot of literature on - what is the word I'm looking for? The maternal mortality crisis. So it was just like, I was reading about all of this and saying, okay, we know medical racism is a thing. We know that resources is a thing. But there's something else here, right? There's some other way that we can approach this conversation to better support and better serve Black women who are mothers, mothers of color, etc. During this particular moment in our political history, I was weeping probably daily reading these stories. I was going to my husband and just being like, I don't know what it is. But I'm just like, I have to write about this. I was going to my advisor, and I was like, hey, my grandma's from Mexico. My grandma came here when she was 14. There's a connection to this, but I feel like it's not my story.

Janay Garrett

My advisor was like, why not? I was like, well, my grandma passed when I was young. I don't know where in Mexico we're from. I don't have- I feel there's kind of a separation from our story in a way that makes me feel like I'm not entitled to feel the way that I'm feeling about this. And he was just like, wait. But that is your story, and I want you to write about - not for publication. For you to write this paper that you're trying to write, for you to write this dissertation, for you to study this transition to motherhood, I need you to capture your story. And your grandmother's story is your story, Janay.

Janay Garrett

I remember just like- I have many, many visuals of myself now, pregnant and just crying in his office. Because I was just like- Howard, somebody has to do something about this. If nothing else, my scholarship has to help do something about this. So I wrote - my husband will tell the story differently. But he set up this table. I'm closing my eyes, because I can picture it. He set up this table in our living room. He slept on the couch, and I was just super pregnant. Our baby girl was in our bedroom. And I'm writing at like 2am. Because pregnant, you don't sleep for half the night.

Janay Garrett

Yes. When people say- sleep while I can. I'm like, but I can't.

Janay Garrett

So what he used to do for me is in our bedroom, he set the TV up right by the bed and would give me the iPad. I used to fall asleep to Harry Potter and magical shows, whatever. I would wake up at probably like ten, eleven, maybe twelve, and I would write from that time until the sun came up.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Janay Garrett

He would just stock me with snacks, put my favorite shows on, set me up in the kitchen. And he would just sleep right there. So I wrote a paper about then, how my scholarship kind of emerged. Through reading the Chicana motherwork anthology, I wrote a paper about how in developmental science, the concept of risk and resilience is a very- it's a very clinical word. Risk being measured by certain kind of quantitative markers. Resilience being like you've overcome adversity, quote, unquote. What I was trying to do is through framing that with mother work and critical race theory, I was trying to argue that the notion of risk and resiliency is -not only is it- what's a good word to say? It needs to be redone. It needs to be reconsidered, revised.

Janay Garrett

But like how dare you call me resilient in the face of this violent, oppressive state, right. I'm like, I'm not. Don't call me resilient. I am literally trying to ensure the livelihood of my children, of other generations, other mothers' children. There's something spiritually visceral about that that was just missing in any kind of literature that I could find, unless it was mothers' stories. So I would say that that is where I found my like- this is what I'm going to continue to write about until I can't write anymore. For me- you asked how I think about mother work, right? Patricia Hill Collins talks about mother work as the labor of mothers of color, as just a general way to describe it. But that labor being more than others, because we're not only looking out for ourselves and the survival of our children, we're also looking out for past and future generations of children.

Janay Garrett

Right. The other work too.

Janay Garrett

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's not even those who are biological mothers, yeah.

Janay Garrett

Yes, yes. And again, it's not gendered. It could be an auntie, somebody who's gender non conforming, whatever. But there's a community of people- what we would call the village.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

Invested in ensuring that our children make it- and not only make it but I would say even now thrive. There is not a whole lot about thriving. It's often about survival. So I would say that- after having our son, after writing and just kind of in some ways birthing, my own writing, for me, that's what my activism kind of emerged as. It was like, in every space that I'm in, if I see an opportunity to better improve a space, or a program, or a community for mothers or other mothers or children, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And I can't not see it, right? Even now, when my writing has been on pause, because I'm trying to rear my children and work and carve out this-my kids are in school. It's a whole nother iteration of mothering that brings up fear and worries and things that I didn't feel before they were in school. Even now, at night I'm thinking about things that I want to write. And how right now, I'm being mothered by other mothers, who are helping me be a better mother, andjust the beauty of that process and that experience.

Janay Garrett

Physically being away from my school- my graduate program- also, it's very isolating.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

So trying to still write myself into like- you're working full time. You're a mom in a new community. You're a wife, you're a sister, daughter, whatever. But you're still also a graduate student working towards- almost a senior grad student working towards finishing your PhD. Trying to continue to hold on to that, so I don't lose that. Okay, I'm just not going to do it. Or, okay, it's not for me. It's like, no, no, no. You're gonna, you're right there. This is part of your mother work, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Janay Garrett

This is something you're gonna give to your children. This is something that you're going to give to other mothers. Yeah. I hope I answered. I know I have a roundabout way of answering questions. But I hope that kind of gives you a little bit of how I've thought about mother work and how I've kind of made it my own. But really, how it's helped guard me and helped form me over time. Because not having it would have been difficult. Not having a framework, or an idea, or a community to kind of root myself in, it would have been so much harder over the last few years to just be and do and write.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. In hearing you talk about not only your topic, but also how everything you've studied also informs your day to day life, it informs the work that you do in your full time job, it informs the work that you do at home and in helping to navigate the system- educational systems that now your kids are part of. What comes to mind to me is just that sense of urgency that comes with this topic, because it's not just an area of study. It is your life, too.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I'm wondering- I know that the title for this episode, it has that term- the urgency. Can you talk a little bit more about how mother work continues to remain urgent in your life? I feel like you're saying-I want to make sure that I finish my program and complete this project. But I feel like everything that you're doing is a kind of work. Even if you're not physically writing, you're doing the work and it's going to inform your dissertation. It's going to inform what you do post-PhD. I'm really excited for you. But I can also kind of sense that urgency in your voice, of like - I want to get this done.

Janay Garrett

Yeah, it's definitely- my advisor's Dr. Howard Stevenson. He always says both and. It's a both and.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Janay Garrett

I would say the urgency never left. I think when my spirit is moved to write, there's an urgency around it. Because I've always been a person who my writing has to apply. I can write it in very verbose ways. I can write for journals. But that's not where my heart is. I want my work, somebody to take it and be like, oh okay. This community over here needs this, or like this momma needs this thing today.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Janay Garrett

Part of that practice, I send my writings to my mom, and she'll-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh wow.

Janay Garrett

Yeah. I always write things to her. I remember when I was writing my comps paper, she was like, mami, do you mean to write Latinx with an x? Because Latine is the term now. But she was like, did you misspell this? I was like, no mom, this is what this means. And she was like, oh okay. So she would give me feedback or contribute in ways that she knew how to, but then it would breed a conversation for us about like-oh, this is how mothers are talking about this now. Or this is how I think about your mothering when you were- when I was younger. It's brought us even to a place of like, she'll say, I don't remember. But I think you tell me that if I don't remember something, that might be about my trauma, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow.

Janay Garrett

It's really beautiful the ways that we've been able to kind of talk about even her own experiences, as I'm mothering. And it's led us to really difficult conversations, where I've said, hey mom. I don't want to parent from an anxious place. So I need you to pause. I know you're worried as a grandma, but I need you to pause for good. There are times where it's even led me to build boundaries that are difficult, because the context under which we're raising our children is really different right than it was for her. And that's what she worked so hard for. I'm getting chills talking about it.

Janay Garrett

It's a really interesting thing that has evolved for me over time. Because I think when I first started as a mama, I wanted my mom to know I was a good mom. I wanted my mother in law to know I was a good mom. I was so anxious about the external understanding of what I was doing. And that was an internalized sense of self. It was an internalized gaze of like, if you don't do things in a certain way, your babies aren't going to be safe. Over time, I learned to kind of transform that into an advocacy for myself and my babies, meaning like- I remember with our third [word]. Each of my kids, I had a C section. Each time I had very textbook, really serious issues around medical racism, that you read stories about. But with [word] I was like, oh I study the maternal mortality rate for Black and Latinx mothers. I'm gonna have lots of questions for you.

Janay Garrett

I would tell each and every doctor and nurse. And granted, you don't have to have a study or a PhD in it to do that, right? There are lots of ways that mothers have shown us over time the way that they advocate for themselves and their children. But that was my way. It was like, I'm gonna tell you who I am. I'm gonna tell you exactly what I expect from you out of this. And I'm gonna tell you if you don't do that, I got a community around me that's going to make sure that this is right. I'm also going to make sure you don't do this for somebody else. So yeah. I think over time, it went from a very, kind of self - you have to go through it. But a self - I don't want to say self centered, but it was really an internalized and internal conversation and dialogue that I was having. To one that was like okay, if I'm having this issue, there are hands down other mothers having this issue.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

There are hands down other mothers who are having this issue who don't have people next to them fighting. You know, I have been in and left spaces- workspaces, academic spaces - where it was like, you're not doing right. I have done the work of telling you you're not doing right, and I cannot ethically be in this space if you're not going to do right by these folks.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

Either that, or I'm gonna fight until. So yeah, I would say over time, that's how both my practice of mother work and understanding my commitment and urgency to other mothers and community and people around me has changed. But also how it's informed even how I think about the way that I write about it, because I've had people be like, oh is this rigorous? Oh, let me tell you how rigorous this is. This goes through this many people. I've talked to this many people. This is aligned with medical racism data. This is aligned with data around, rates around health and wellness and mental health for women of color. This is connected too. It's so urgent that I'm not going to drop the ball around what I know.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

So that I can then give it to somebody else.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You shared so much there. I'm thinking about how you mentioned that this has informed the way that you advocate for yourself and for others, and how you have realized that if you're experiencing something that it's not just you. It's happening across, and that's why we have things like the maternal mortality rates, which directly impact Black moms and mothers of color. So I hear the sense of urgency. But then at the same time, I am wondering- for folks who maybe have not had that kind of experience, maybe have not birthed a child. Maybe they are child free, and and intentionally child free, but they want to be part of that village, and they want to provide support. They want to become more informed and perhaps even be involved in advocacy work or activist work. What are some ways that you would recommend for them to get to know more about this work or to support anybody nearby that part of their village? Or how can they get involved? How can they do their part of being what some folks call allies or co-conspirators, or just supportive of those who are in that struggle?

Janay Garrett

Yeah, yeah. It's a phenomenal question. Often, I think, when we usually give recommendations to allies, I think we start at resources almost immediately. Like, okay, if you have a new family, start with food.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Or start with a cleaning their house or daycare. And those things are definitely urgent. I think that the period that feels so vulnerable is right after. When the food stops coming, when the appointments are slow down, when baby's starting to sleep a little bit on their own, and it goes silent. There's a period that it just kind of go silent. Maybe it's just me. We have phenomenal people in our village, but there is a period where it just kind of goes silent. And even research would show that maternal psychosis and mental health and some of those, it's a year- up to a year or plus after. It's like, right after that period when everybody wants to hang out with me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

And what I would say is for me, I go quiet. People- you don't see me on social media. My friends-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

What do you mean, you go quiet? Like when you have a child, or after that? At what point?

Janay Garrett

I recede. During that quiet period, I also go quiet.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, I see.

Janay Garrett

I think because it's - for me, when I started writing about this, I started writing about identity shifts. And I didn't mean it in the sense of self identity, I meant it in the sense of connection to community. How other people see me as a friend, or a colleague, because it was like, I can't show up to the same things. I can't call you as often. I can't answer as often. Oh my gosh, I have a poopy diaper and you're calling me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Or my kid is sick, and I'm terrified. Or like- I was nursing all night, every hour, and I couldn't possibly tell you how much pain I'm in because I don't even know how to describe this. It's the period where there's that silence. And what I would say is if you have friends who even in the first five years have had a child, and you have the capacity to just be that friend that regularly checks in and doesn't expect anything from them other than like, hey, I'm checking on you. I'm here. I'm not gonna cry, but I'm probably gonna cry after this. Those are the people that -on the worst days, I happen to get the text from that friend, right? That's like- okay, there it is. It was those people.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

They're checking in on you. So many times, you're just in charge and having to take care of everybody. And it just feels so nice to have someone actually check in on you? You're like- wait, it's been how long? And you're the first person to check up on me, to ask me how I'm doing and ask me seriously how I'm really doing.

Janay Garrett

And really mean it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

And I think sometimes, it's hard when you also want to do that for other people. There would be periods as a mom where you're like- I remember grad school, I had at least five or six friends who had babies at the same time. And I was the one that was like, let's write. Let's go here. I got you. But in the last few years, I've experienced being the one who can't do that. I am literally like, I can only be right here right now. I know you're going through something, you're going through something, you're going through something. And I cannot be that person right now and I want to be. Hey, baby. You okay?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Speaking up babies.

Janay Garrett

What you need baby?

Janay's baby

I'm hungy.

Janay Garrett

You're hungry?

Janay's baby

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Okay. Yeah. You got to spidey?

Janay's baby

I want the Play Doh.

Janay Garrett

Okay. You got it from the counter?

Janay's baby

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Okay. You want to say hi?

Janay's baby

Hi.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Hi. How are you doing?

Janay Garrett

Big Spidey.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love your spider man. Look at how red he is- red and blue.

Janay's baby

Yeah his cap is red.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, that's really cool.

Janay's baby

I see you got the spider here.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, what color is that spider?

Janay's baby

Oh, black.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, black. Just like you're shirt and my shirt and you mom's shirt.

Janay's baby

Yeah, it my space-

Janay Garrett

Your space shirt.

Janay's baby

Yeah it's my outer space shirt.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Outer space shirt.

Janay's baby

Yeah. It has space ships.

Janay Garrett

So how about you go to the couch now. I'll come get you some food.

Janay's baby

Okay. Mommy?

Janay Garrett

Yeah.

Janay's baby

I want you to put on spidey.

Janay Garrett

I can put on spidey team for you, okay?

Janay's baby

Okay.

Janay Garrett

Can I have a few more minutes?

Janay's baby

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Okay, I love you.

Janay's baby

I love you.

Janay Garrett

Okay, see you in a little bit. Go get your water, okay? Can you close the door for me? I'll be right out.

Janay's baby

Okay.

Janay Garrett

Thank you.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh, my gosh. That was so adorable.

Janay Garrett

He's the sweetest kid. Goodness.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That couldn't be any more perfect.

Janay Garrett

You can keep it in, by the way.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I mean, it's up to you. I'm totally down to keep it in, because this is the work. This is it.

Janay Garrett

Literally. But yeah-

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We're gonna get close to wrapping up too.

Janay Garrett

Okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Because I know, we're getting close to time. And after asking you about that sense of urgency and about what others can do- which I don't know if you have any other things you wanted to share about that.

Janay Garrett

Sure.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But the next thing I wanted to ask is just words of advice. Maybe if you have other things about what folks can do to offer support, and then also words of advice for especially first gen students of color, mothers, parents?

Janay Garrett

Absolutely. I think that aside from checking in with people that you know, if you are in graduate or professional spaces, workspaces, etc, get to know the policies around- can families be there. How do they fund people who are on leave? How much time and space is given? Are there breastfeeding spaces? Can they bring their kids to class? And if they can, what is the actual culture around that? Are they gonna get weird comments, or professors being strange about it. I think that there's always a way that other people can advocate for change in those spaces. And someone might say, but you don't have a kid. Why do you care about this? Say, because these are my colleagues, my comrades.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

There doesn't have to be a reason, but I've had people say things like that to me before. Like, well, why do you care about this? You're a fifth year doc student, right? And it's like, because I'm out of funding, but these students need funding. [Words.]

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Janay Garrett

So yeah. I would say that wherever you can connect and tie both connection and resources for people, do it. And don't assume that because someone looks like they're doing it well- I've had so many people be like, you make parenting look so easy. I'm like, great!

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Folks only see what we share publicly, you know?

Janay Garrett

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Sometimes even among those of us, among our loved ones, we don't always open up.

Janay Garrett

Yeah. And it's beautiful. I love my children. I wanted to have children. But it doesn't matter. We should care about them- parents, birthing people, non- birthing people- just because they're human beings.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes.

Janay Garrett

Care and still be connected to them. So I would say that. And of course if you can offer material resources when people need it, do it. Fundraise for them. Donate to places that fundraise for families. Do it. Mutual aid got us through COVID, right? Then I would say in terms of advice, I've made a lot of, I would say what I would call heart and spiritual mistakes during grad school around my family. What I mean by that is like, I don't know that I had a lot of- he's singing. I had a lot of fears and worries. So there were times where I was so guarded with my kids that it was off putting to people. And I didn't know how to communicate that.

Janay Garrett

Or there were times where like- my advisor in racial literacy work calls it freeze- flight, fight, or freeze.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

There were times I freeze. People would do things like touch our kids hair, and I was new to that for our kids. Our kids have beautiful locks.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

Or like, someone kissed our kid one time and I was so angry. I didn't know what to do. And I wish I had known. Now I'm real quick with it, because I can advocate. I learned over time it was easier to advocate for my kids than it was for myself. That was a really important understanding for me. And then two, what was an important understanding for me was that a lot of people in the world don't know what it's like to have and interact with kids, right? Young kids, kids of color, whatever. For whatever reason. But particularly in grad school, that was my experience. And if they do, they might be coming from a totally different upbringing, a totally different background. So being clear and not being afraid to be clear about what's important for you and your family as just off top, that is so important.

Janay Garrett

Because at the end of the day, me being liked by my graduate school colleague was not more important than my children's health, was not more important than me doing well in a graduate course, ended up not being more important than what was happening from my family. Even more so the pandemic- it was super clear around that. It was just like as much as I love and respect my career- I recently walked away from a phenomenal position because I felt like I had to choose between myself and my family. For whatever reason. It was just like I'm away from my family too much. My brain is so full of my job that I don't have enough space for the mental and emotional decisions that I have to make for my family.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

So I would say- to try to be more concise- is one, learn where your boundaries are and be okay making those clear for everybody. Because nobody's going to know those things until you communicate them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

And then, two. Baby, can we stop turning that off and on? Is that okay? Here, do me a favor. Can you take that in there for me? He's a pet a pig book. Can you go read it for me? You gonna take your spider man with you? Yes. He's flying?

Janay's baby

Yeah, he has wings to fly.

Janay Garrett

He has wings to fly. So sweet.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I love his energy.

Janay Garrett

Part of the reason that I feel so urgent is we had a school this week tell us they couldn't handle him. and he was disruptive. Mind you, he's three. And -

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

What three year old listens?

Janay Garrett

He's three.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Toddlers be toddlin. Tha's what I always tell people.

Janay Garrett

Then we ended up- my current job, we ended up- there are some black women who are mothers of older children. They called a local grandmother who raised their kids. They were like, hey, we have this mom who can't find childcare. She's having a hard time with her three year old and her one year old. Can you take them? And we brought them there. She's in her 70s, but just the most amazing spirit. We came to pick them up on Friday and she goes, nothing's wrong with that boy.

Janay Garrett

Nothing's wrong with him. He's a sweetheart. He did great all day today. Bring him back Monday. We've got them. Don't worry. You go to work. You worry about nothing. You bring them back. But I say all that because I went from being a person who never took a misstep in her career, never had a misstep. Yes, baby. Okay, bring it to me. You know what I mean? I had prided myself on the steps that I took in my career. I was that person that was like, I'm gonna do this thing. And I'm going to do it. If I tell you, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

And what changed for me in motherhood was not that I couldn't do those things anymore.

Janay's baby

Mommy?

Janay Garrett

Yes? Okay. I got you. I grew to understand that those things weren't rooted in a sense of self, right? Those desires were rooted in an external. I either want a want a certain feeling or a certain validation or whatever it is.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right.

Janay Garrett

And it wasn't authentic to who I was. So when I was doing that type of work, or when I was engaged, I was always anxious. I was always worried about not being perfect, not being right, something being off. What motherhood has done for me - and really mother work and community has done for me- it's really humbled me. It's helped me understand that nobody gets by on their own.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah.

Janay Garrett

I learned small practices, like - when you really need a mentor, text 911. I need 15 minutes of your time. A mother taught me that right. I was like, they're famous. They're busy. She's like, 911. I need a moment of your time. So small, simple practices were it. I couldn't have gotten through really big moments 3000 miles away from our family- are bio family- had I not had other mothers around me saying, this is how you get through grad school. This is how you get through this difficult moment with a mentor. This is how you get through this really tough snag professionally. This is how you find your kid child care in a new state. You find your people. You guard your heart. And you keep your family close, because at the end of the day, any professional and educational space, the machine will keep running. The machine will keep working.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

With or without you.

Janay Garrett

With or without you. It's a hard truth. It's a truth that I learned to not take personally. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to rage against it when I'm in it, right, for other mothers to feel a sense of connection and community. But at the end of the day, your health, your family, your well being is far more important. And there are other ways. If for some reason this pathway you're on isn't going to align the way you thought it would, there are other ways to get there. That has been a really beautiful realization for me in this moment, because I'm probably the happiest I've been, and so is our family. That feels good, and it was because of really difficult decisions and really hard moments, where other people came around us to say- you're gonna get through this. But you're not going to do that alone and we're not going to let you do that alone.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you for your words. I feel like you just affirmed so many folks in everything that you shared. You affirmed non traditional and non linear paths, and prioritizing oneself, prioritizing your community, communicating your needs, communicating your boundaries. All of these are just- a lot of it is easier said than done.

Janay Garrett

So much easier said than done.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But even just listening to one of the many gems that you shared, of the many tips that you shared today. I think that they will be better off for it. For folks who resonated with what you shared, and who would like to stay in touch or connect in some way, shape or form, how can they reach you?

Janay Garrett

Sure. Instagram is always a great way to reach me. Even when I'm not posting, I pay attention. I don't know about Twitter lately.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I know.

Janay Garrett

But on every platform and email, I'm JanayMGarrett@gmail.com, or on Instagram or LinkedIn, social media. I did that on purpose a while ago because I noticed that whenever I was having conversations with mamas, it was like, can we talk later? In the true nature of a mom with three young kids, it might take me a minute. But I will respond. And it's okay to bug me over and over again. So if it's been three, four days, please send me a reminder message or text, and be like, hey mama. I'm still here. I would love to connect. Because it's truly just like- right now, we're flying by the seat of our pants for a minute until we get a little more steady. But yes, please, I would love to stay connected with folks.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Okay, thank you so much. I can relate to that too. It's like a lot of back and forth for us to get to just talk to us, two busy moms.

Janay Garrett

I'm so glad. I'm so glad we did it today.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Me too. Thank you so much, Janay, for coming on the show, for sharing so much knowledge and wisdom and truth. It's been great. Thank you.

Janay Garrett

Thank you. Thank you.