153: Wellness, Nutrition, and Guilt-Free Joy in Grad School with Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Welcome back everyone to the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette, and today we have an episode all about wellness, nutrition and guilt free joy in grad school with Dra. Hortencia Jimenez. I'm really excited that she said yes. Our special guest is Dra. Hortencia, who is from Huichol ancestry. She was born in the Sierra Madre in the state of Nayarit, Mexico and emigrated to the United States with her paternal grandmother and aunt. She holds a BA, MA and PhD in Sociology and is also a certified health coach and intuitive eating counselor- among many, many other titles. Welcome to the podcast of Dra. Hortencia.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Hola. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure and honor to share this space with you and your audience. I'm really excited. Thank you.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Of course, I've been meaning to have you on the podcast, y no se porque no te habia invitado- until now.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It was the right time, right?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Exactly. I've been following your work. I think I first heard about your work with the Chicana Motherwork Anthology. And since then, I've been following you on the social media spaces. I'm really excited. I love what you do. I love the message that you share, and I thought this would be a good time to have a discussion about wellness, about nutrition and also, how it intersects with joy. But for folks who are not familiar with who you are and what you do, I would love if you could just tell us a little bit more about yourself, and even if you feel comfortable sharing a little bit more about your backstory too.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, of course. First and foremost, I'm a proud mama. I have three beautiful kids- ages fifteen, thirteen, and soon to be eleven. So motherhood is a big part of my identity, of who I am. And it really intersects with my profession as a sociology professor. I teach at the community college. I teach sociology. You know, especially for our audience, it's so important to really center our parenting, our motherhood in academia and the different spaces that we occupy in the community.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Because we're always pressured to compartmentalize ourselves. I feel that I've challenged this since I started my Ph.D program, in deciding to get pregnant. But why am I sharing this? Just because motherhood is a big part of who I am, and it shapes how I see the world, the work that I do, and the issues or the social problems that I see in our Latinx community. I'm really invested in teaching at the community college, because there's- of course, you know- underrepresentation of us.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And I just feel this is my calling, my passion, to teach at the community college. Another passion of mine is education, but within the realm of healing your relationship with food and your body through anti- dieting, which is a sort of movement, of basically letting go of diets. The impact that that has had in my life is that because I did diets growing up, there was a lot of body shaming. And even now, I still go through that- even though I carry thin privilege. It's different.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And you know, there's a lot of eating disorders among Latinx community. There's a lot of food insecurity. I want to bring in a social and racial justice lens to the work that I do in the health and wellness sector, which is underrepresented of Latinx.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Especially on social media, which is another conversation. So I have all those. I resist to be just one dimensional. I'm everything at once, and it's complicated, messy, very nuanced. But that's who we are, right?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I love that. I love everything that you just said. And I think we need more of that. Yeah. So I'm glad that you're here. I'm glad that- I feel like you're the right person to talk about this topic. Actually, just a little follow up question. How did you get to- what brought you to this interest of wellness and nutrition? And also spirituality, I would say.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. Wow, it's so much. I feel like we need part two. Oh, goodness. Well, you know, my own lived experience as an immigrant. I had my own history of dieting, which is linked to so many other issues that we face in our community.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

I'm going to be very honest. How does the shaming of our bodies, how does the surveillance and social control of our bodies by patriarchy- that is enforced by the matriarchs in our family. It is so oppressive, and I'm healing. I'm 42, and I'm healing that right now. That has a big impact in how I treat, how I view my body and the foods that I eat. And so, really- I see that there is- you know, as an academic, I see there's a lack of representation of our voices in academia.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Then I start social media due to the pandemic. I was doing a lot of work in the immigrant community here where I live, and I couldn't, you know, we couldn't do a lot of stuff. So I decided to begin my journey on social media, and I opened an Instagram. I realized- I was trying to do research on social media to look at other latinx accounts. I was like, oh my goodness. Wait, it's just white women in the wellness industry.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Here you are. It's like, what's going on? I was processing it as I was trying to find my voice in this platform- still trying to find my voice and seeing the lack of representation. And I realized, oh, wow. There's all the dominant narratives and voices are centered on white women, thin privilege, or even on women in bigger bodies who are white. So I was like, okay, something's going on here, even on social media. Then I gravitated to a Black nutritionist, your Latina nutritionist, and there's another account that I really love. They're Black women and Latina woman who are just like, they're trailblazers on social media. I hold on to the work. I really look up to the work that they're doing.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And it's been a journey. It's been two years and I think that after two years, I finally feel that I am embracing my voice. It's very scary. I am just being so honest and vulnerable. It's not easy. Like we teach, I'm a professor. I teach these topics in the classroom. But to come on to social media, and you have a bigger audience. You know, it's intimidating. There's a lot. There's impostor syndrome. A lot of different challenges, but I think that I am morphing into a butterfly. I think I'm just gonna spread my wings now and be like, ya, ya no más calladita. No more being silenced.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And feeling intimidated. I have so much knowledge and lived experience and academic. Bring all this together, Hortencia, and share it. Even though it's scary to click post, I do it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And you know what? It definitely resonates. We can sense that. We can sense the authenticity. We can sense that it's coming from a place of centering yourself, and doing it unapologetically. So thank you. I would love to- if you're okay with that - to go straight into the topic.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Which is wellness and nutrition. I'm glad that you mentioned it, because when I think about wellness and nutrition, it does feel like a very white space. It's very white dominant. So I'm wondering- because I think we all have different definitions of what is wellness, what is nutrition?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And so maybe you can tell us- how do you define wellness and nutrition? Then maybe we can get into how that applies to grad school and grad students too.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Because I don't know about you, but I have a feeling that there's a lot of grad students out there that are not prioritizing their wellness and their nutrition.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, absolutely. Full disclosure, I am not a nutritionist. I'm not a dietitian. I am a sociologist who specializes on race, class, immigration- all these different intersections. I'm a sociologist who focuses on the sociology of food. So those are my areas of expertise. I'm also a certified health coach. But I do not give any nutritional advice- just to let you know, as a full disclosure.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

So you're not gonna tell me what to eat?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

No. Te digo que comas todo lo que tu quieras.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I love that.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

But even having said that, given my knowledge, when I think about wellness, it was hard at first to think about- to embrace wellness in a way that it didn't feel like it's this sort of white perspective or narrative. And I think it's embracing wellness from our spiritual and indigenous ancestry. So wellness, it's gonna look different for everyone. It's your well-being, so doing things that are going to take care of your soul, your spirit, your heart, your mind, your body. That's very unique to each person. So wellness is a combination of different things, right?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It's not only just having- we go into nutrition. For me, nutrition is having food that is going to nourish you.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So there's no labeling food as good or bad, or giving it moral value. I think that is the dominant narrative when we think about nutrition from a western, white standpoint. As a sociologist and a health coach in the anti dieting, nutrition is food that's going to nourish you, food that's going to give you the energy that you need for the day, and that's going to change every day.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

How farmworkers view nutrition and what they need is different from someone who might be working in construction, or who might be working in the service industry or a white collar profession, right? So it is very tailored to that individual. Yet, we have nutritionists and all these so called experts basically telling you certain foods are bad for you, that you shouldn't eat them. And oftentimes, this comes from a very biased and racist framework, right? There's a lot of undoing there in the nutrition sector, in stigmatizing and labeling or culture food as bad. And this morality comes from colonialism and white supremacy.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes. And that sounds like that has something to do in common with grad school too.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Because the history of institutions of higher education is that they are very catering to the elite white men for whom they were built for. So it's no surprise that a lot of academic spaces can be toxic, and as such, may not be prioritizing an individual's wellness.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Exactly. That connection of- when you said the connection with wellness and nutrition and grad students. First, we're acknowledging that as students of color, navigating higher education is already very challenging, very difficult. And being in a predominantly white space, there's so much that we carry, right? All the microaggressions that we may experience, the discrimination, the racism, the imposter syndrome. I mean, this can get really sad and depressing, verdad?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Feeling out of place- everything. But that's so important, because that's going to affect our well- being. We feel it in our bodies, right? I feel like- think about carrying a backpack through our education. Then we get to grad school, and grad school se siente bien pesado.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It's like, oh gosh. It just gets heavier and heavier. Because not only do we feel that responsibility as first gen to get that degree, but somehow we become the spokesperson of our community because that's how they view us in class. So we have all these stressors and triggers, and the history of intergenerational trauma. We're carrying all that while we're in grad school. And hey, you know, we're not taking into account our finances. What if you don't have a full ride? What if you need to work?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Right? What if you're a parent. What if you're a single parent? There's all these different aspects that's going to affect your well being.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And frankly, a veces, the last thing we do is to take care of our nutrition, our eating.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Nos malpasamos, we might not eat on time. We might be eating while we're working, while we're studying, while we're driving. I mean, I can name all that- everything. It's like sitting down, and being mindful while we're eating, right? I oftentimes feel like, from personal experience as a grad student- food, eating sometimes became second priority. You know, like- get that done. I wouldn't eat on time. Se descuida uno.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And then your wellness too. You're like, okay. Do I get this done now, or do I go on a walk? I'm too stressed. I need to go on a walk.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So it is challenging. And I think- you know, going back and being critical- we don't have the infrastructure, we don't have these systems in place in grad school, especially speaking as a student, a parent. It's hard being a student of color.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Like when I was pregnant, honestly, I couldn't think about my brown body. I was pregnant. I experienced so much, so many microaggressions.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

A lot of stereotypes for getting pregnant, and a lot of violence. You know, academic violence. That I wasn't going to succeed because I got pregnant. I was going to have kids. So that's hard enough. [Words] my wellness. I mean, I'm gonna try to carry my baby, my pregnancy. But I'm still trying to survive in an institution that doesn't have the systems in place to offer programs and services and the support for student parents. Pos muchos menos alimentacion, right?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Right.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So we need that combination. I know that there's some institutions who have some of those- community colleges and universities, and I'm sure you can stick to that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. I mean, I can relate too, because that was also my experience as a graduate student, as an individual who also got pregnant in graduate school, and facing a lot of violence, a lot of toxicity. Just not- it was not an encouraging space, or healthy space for me. And in fact, it affected my birth. I suffered complications. That's a whole other story that I've talked about multiple times. The folks that are listening to my podcast are like- you're always mentioning that. That's called trauma.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It's called trauma, and we need to keep talking about it. Because it takes courage, and I want to thank you for doing that. We need to continue to have these conversations, and normalize them. Normalize that it's hard, that there's violence, that there's trauma, and we still feel the repercussions.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So healing our relationship with food, it's also like healing those traumatic events that happened to us when we were in grad school, for being a brown woman, but then for being pregnant.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

You know, for birthing a dissertation and a baby.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes, yes. The one thing that I'm hearing also, when you're talking about the graduate school experience that is very common is that there's not a lot of room for reflection. There's not a lot of room for mindfulness. There's not a lot of room for being in the moment, in the present moment, for you to consider things like your health, your nutrition, your wellness.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I know you said it's different for everyone, and you're not a nutritionist. But are there any ways, any tips, anything, any insights, consejos - anything for grad students to start to consider even reframing, or reminding them about being more intentional? Things that they can do, integrate into their very busy lives to prioritize wellness and nutrition a little bit more?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, I love that. And you said it. I think the first thing is reframing the toxic narratives that we grew up hearing about our bodies and about food. That's the first one. That's the first one, and that's the hardest one. It requires being vulnerable in recognizing - what were the messages that you grew up listening about food around your house? And identifying those messages, and identifying the people. Oftentimes it is people that love us. It's our parents, or it's our family. It's our friends. People that might be close to you. It's hard to realize - like, yes, they love you. But they also said things that were hurtful and that were oppressive.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So it's one, acknowledging- what are those narratives? And the oppression behind that, and liberating that. I think when we recognize that- and I think that's part of my spirituality. It's like, damn. I grew up with all this stuff. And I carry and I feel that. I don't know if you saw me, I was like ugh. Todavia lo siento pesado.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It's still heavy. For grad students - like, damn, you're already struggling. You know, it's already hard enough in grad school. And now I'm like- here I am, Dr. Hortencia, telling you- well, you should also consider thinking about those oppressive narratives while you're in grad school. Like, okay, that's hard enough already. Pero no, es importante, because I think that's part of our liberation, right? It's a shift in narrative, and it's reclaiming our cultural foods in a way that is going to be right for us, for that individual.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Let's just talk about tortillas, right? That's a good example. Tortillas en pan, or arroz. Those are like- no comas tantas tortillas porque vas a engordar. Don't eat too many tortillas because you're gonna gain weight. I mean, it sounds so innocent, but that can affect you, right? That's one thing. It's reframing that. Like, tortillas are nourishing. Tortillas are ancestral foods. Tortillas - whatever it is, corn, fertility, no se. I'm just going on.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Y todo- the corn y todo.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. No, en serio. Think about the food. Don't give it a moral value. One is reframing those thoughts, or identifying them, right- and identifying the people in your life. Trying to set boundaries is another one. Pero tambien, it's like having- it's gonna sound funny- having a relationship with food. Honestly, hablale tu comida. Like when you're cooking- if you're cooking it, if you bought it frozen, whatever it is. Develop that relationship. Even if you don't have time to eat or even make home cooked meals, just honor yourself for the food that you're going to eat- without judgment. That's hard. That's hella hard. We live in a very judgmental society. And I'm asking you- stop judging your food. Stop judging how you eat, what you eat. We're already judged enough in society as women of color, right? So why are we gonna keep adding to that? But that's definitely a process.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Then another thing is- I have a hard time with mindful eating, and I'll tell you why. Because it sounds so white. I have a hard time- I was trained as an intuitive eating counselor. And when I was going through the training, I'm like, okay. How does this apply to my immigrant community? How does this apply to farm workers?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Porque it ain't not resonating with me right now. I'm like, I'm resisting this right now. So okay, when I think about mindful eating, it's like- again. I always think about this as a white thing, right? But if I bring it back- again, decolonizing our mind, decolonizing our food. But decolonizing our mind is like okay, so what does it mean to be present?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So if I am on the run, if you're a grad student and you don't have enough time to cook or even to eat, it's just giving gratitude. Mindful eating is going to look different. So move away from a white perspective that is very oppressive, and that is not inclusive. You're going to define mindful eating in your own way. It can be 30 seconds. It can even be a minute. Y esta bien.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Because you might not have the freakin luxury to just be like, I have 20 minutes to just sit here and mindfully eat.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And talk to my food.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Like no, no se puede. You know, some people do a prayer. Some people eat in nature- whatever it is. So I'm just really here to just challenge you to think about wellness, intuitive eating, mindful eating.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I was gonna mention intuitive eating. Can you say a little bit more about that?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Because it sounds similar to mindful eating, but I wonder if you can expand more on that. That's something that I'd like to say that I practice is more intuitive eating.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Because growing up, I never really trusted myself or my body, and what I ate. It was- tienes sacar todo que esta en tu plato. You know, you have to eat everything that's on your plate.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Then I would eat, and I would get over full. And at one point, I don't even think I realized what it felt to be actually full.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It took some training for me to eat, to eat slowly, kind of more intentionally, and then allow my body to do its thing of letting me know that I'm full without feeling over full or without still being hungry.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Exactly. I appreciate what you just said, because our eating habits, our relationship with food is tied and it's intricately connected to our socialization- how we were raised at home. And you and me were part of the clean plate team, where no te levantas hasta que te acabas la comida.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Because otherwise- those other poor kids.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, they make you feel guilty. I still struggle with that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

I still struggle with it. So it's acknowledging our food traumas that we have with our food and our families.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And then we lose that connection with our bodies, because our eating and our fullness is dictated by our family, by an adult, by someone in authority. When in reality, we need to trust our bodies. You know, we need to trust our kids at a very early age, that they know what's best. When they say they're full, they're full. Why shove the food?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

[Words] Muchos parents hacen eso. It's very violent. That's another conversation.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So we lose that connection with our bodies and our hunger and satiation cues, todo eso. Entonces, for intuitive eating, it's this interrelationship or dynamic between our body, our bodies' signals, cuando nos estan diciendo that we're hungry, that we're full. Pero tambien, es nuestra mente - the messages that we get around food. It is intuitive eating, this dynamic process where we don't judge your food, where we are honoring that journey. But that's very difficult, because it's like how do you tune in to your hunger cues? How do you tune into when you're full, or when you're craving, when you've done diets, or when you were forced to eat your food growing up.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

That requires a lot of dismantling those practices that were oppressive in the past.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It's scary. Por eso, mucha gente no lo quiere hacer. They want to be dictated. No one's going to know- like even a nutritionist. They'll make you a meal plan, or they'll tell you all this. But at the end of the day, it's like, your body's gonna let you know. You gotta trust your body. So I often think about- intuitive eating was a framework that was created by two nutritionists, registered dietitians. And I love their framework. But at the same time, I want to offer a critique. When I think about intuitive eating, when I was going through this sort of vocation, I was like, this is like our ancestors. They call it intuitively eating, but from an ancestral way, we've been doing this for thousands of years already.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Connecting and listening to your body. And then, llegaron los colonizadores and then, you know, all that violence that happened. So intuitive eating is, I think, this white western concept. But we've been practicing that for thousands of years.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It's just a matter of remembering.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, remembering our ancestors' practices, right?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah. And it's gonna look different for everyone. I know I keep going back to that, because it's true. It's about individuality, bio- individuality. You think que te quiero mucho esta preso porque no te vaya decir compra. If you buy me clothes, how do you know I'm gonna like that clothes? You're not gonna let someone else do a whole wardrobe change, right? But why are we letting other people dictate what we eat? What we eat and how much we eat. That's just -that's wrong.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of unlearning, and it takes time. I think that's what I'm reminded,is that it's a healing journey.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si, it is.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And it's like, as soon as you realize- oh, this is a thing that I should be working on, like problem solved. It's a whole process, right? Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah. And part of intuitive eating too, is recognizing that health is not based on the scale. It's not based on the numbers. It's not based on BMI.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It's so important. I think there's so much resistance to that. People think like wait, anti dieting is anti health. No, it's like these paradigms, these ways of understanding health and nutrition and body is from my Western perspective that is rooted in white supremacy, frankly. So we got to name it and call it out with the ways that it is.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I mean, if you look at the charts, you're like, oh.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Even like my children's growth charts.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

They're like - so you were looking at a growth chart, but what is the standard for this growth chart? Oh, it's a white child, you know, or it's the white formula of that child or whatever it is that they decide that is the norm.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And the same goes with the BMI. It's like the BMI- but whose bodies are the BMI measured after.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Exactly. Yes, exactly. Absolutely. You know, as parents, I think about my own kids going to the doctor. I start getting nervous, and I'm a health coach. I tell my kids, lo van a pesar, and don't pay attention to the doctor, what they say about your weight. And I tell them why. I tell them that's BS. And my kids just look at me like, we know mama, we know. Like yeah, we get it, but it's still gonna affect them.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Because the doctor's telling them that they're overweight, you know, but it's based on this very biased measurement.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So part of intuitive eating is recognizing the diversity of bodies, recognizing that health is not based on your weight.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

You know, there's people in bigger bodies. And one thing is you don't need to love- there's parts of my body that I don't love. I'm not gonna mention them, pero yeah. But I'm making peace. I accept my body. I have to respect it in that- and respect and look differently right? But intuitive eating is not like oh, I love everything about my body or I embrace everything. Well, that's great if some people are able to. But intuitive eating is saying body appreciation, body respect. You know, when we have kids we have that - I call it jello, my jello skin.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

The extra skin.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

The extra skin and then the stretch marks. I don't like that. I've been conditioned not to love that. But you know, I am embracing them. That's part of who I am as a mother, of having three kids that I birthed. I gave birth and those stretch marks, y esa...

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Battle Scars.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah, it's part of who I am, you know? No me gusta, but part of intuitive eating is- okay. I appreciate that this body, that this belly, man I was able to carry three kids at different parts of their life.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes, that is incredible.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah. So it's just challenging and shifting that narrative. It's a lot of narrative reframing.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. The other thing that has come up in the conversation is, there's a lot of external messaging that comes at us, that causes us to feel shame or guilt in our bodies, in what we eat and how we take care of ourselves. And I don't think that that really allows us to focus on joy, and to love ourselves, and to consider our self worth and all of that. So I would like to kind of start to talk a little bit more about the topic of joy, and also the embracing guilt free joy. Because you're saying there's a lot of the messaging that we have to reframe, to help us to feel better in our bodies, but then also feel better about ourselves. And I do think that gets us closer to feeling joy, because the more you love yourself, the better you feel, que no?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si. And you know, there's a lot of amazing books. Este de Sonya Renee Taylor.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh my gosh, yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

That's a great book.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

The body is not an apology, right?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

The body's not an apology- that's an amazing book to read. And there's this book written by Lalah Delia. It's called- the title is, Vibrate Higher Daily: Live Your Power. She starts off her book with the following. How do you thrive in a world that does not honor who and what you are at the most real level? And how is it okay that we have come to this? How do you thrive in a world that does not honor who and what you are?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So when we think about joy- and I think this is really relevant, because it's hard enough as women of color to go through the educational pipeline and get through grad school. It's hard to find that joy in a system that was not created for us when there's so much oppression, right? It's hard. It's like you're battling. You're going upstream. We're not meant to thrive, right? And so finding joy in our struggles is hard.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

It is possible. And that's when I have to go back and think about our families and the strength of our ancestors, so that we can continue that journey, and finding joy- finding joy not in the capitalist accolades

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And your sense of worth. So I know, I'm kinda, I'm still talking about joy. Because joy is like, I feel successful. I feel accomplished. But I really want to invite the reader not to get caught up with- you know, yes, it's important that we're succeeding, that you're getting that degree. But don't measure your joy, this external success on these capitalist ideas, ideologies. Measure them based on- do you feel happy? Do you feel happy? Do you feel content? And that's hard.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And nourished tambien.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And nourished. Because academia, no te valar eso. You might get your degree and be miserable. And you know that. We know that. We know faculty who are top notch y todo, pero their personal lives are not very joyful.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. You said it. No pero, te siento. You know, it is true in a lot of instances.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

But maybe that brings them joy. That's when I realized, I don't want this for me, right? This is not the type of life that I want, and joy and sense of fulfillment. I want to be in the community. I want to be close to my family. That's what's gonna bring me joy. So, again, joy, not measuring it from these accolades. But like, como te sientes? The inner work, that's hard work.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I know.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

I encourage people to go to therapy, you know. Therapy es muy importante, porque si no estamos bien, if we're not well spiritually or our mental well being, then that's going to have a big impact on everything that we do. And we want to do things with intention, you know, with the best intention.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And it's all tied together, verdad?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Going back to like, all these systems want us to compartmentalize. Even with our health, it's so compartmentalized, like physical health, and then you have to see all the specialists. And then physical health as separate from mental health, and then mental health gets stigmatized.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But it's like, you gotta think about it as this whole- you are a whole human being. So just as much as your physical health is important, so too your mental health is important.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. And having those conversations or finding that support system in grad school- the mentors, the centers, the resources outside of academia in the community, the agencies. That's very important for our well being, because if we don't have those types of support systems, it's going to make it a lot difficult for us. Like that journey, it's already hard enough.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So having a supportive system is part of that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I mentioned earlier too, the topic of guilt free joy. I wanted to stress the guilt part too, because in my experience in grad school, there was so much guilt. Anytime I was taking care of myself, anytime I was doing something other than being productive in an academic way, I felt bad. And I notice this with the people that I work with, with some of my current students- even folks that just message me, who follow me, who listen to this podcast too. There's so much guilt still.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Of like, even when I try to rest, I feel guilty resting. Or even when I try to rest, I live at home and my mom tells me to go clean.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. Yes, que [word]. Right, not only in regards to food- feeling guilty even for the certain foods that we're eating- but feeling guilt for taking time to nourish your body.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

To take care of yourself, to slow down. Again, I just want to emphasize how important it is to go back to our childhood, to identify those narratives that were oppressive. Why is it really hard for us to take care of ourselves, to take a step back, to slow down, to rest? Because there's that internal voice saying, no haces lohan. You have to be doing something.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Or thinking about our parents tambien.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh, my parents didn't have the privilege of resting. So why should I do that?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, exactly. But we have to go back and build on the work by these wonderful women of color feminists, who say that self care is radical care, is political, right?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So reframing that, and saying, my self care is political, is radical- whatever that may look like. And everyday will be different. So we need to have a lot of compassion for ourselves and for others, because our families put a lot of pressure, even maybe our community, even our colleagues, other people may put that pressure. And we don't want to feel like que los vamos a fallar, or that we're going to let them down. But ultimately, we have to go- there's this saying that says, despasito que llevo prisa. Despasito que llevo prisa, meaning like- I can't say that. What's the translation?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I don't know. Go slowly- I don't know.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Go fast. Slow down, because I'm- I don't know. I can't figure it out right now. Despacio porque llevo prisa, meaning that- I can't find a correct translation for that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It's so hard to say these dichos in English.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, it's like slow down, slow down. We gotta slow down. When we slow down, we're able to accomplish more, but we're taught the contrary. Everyone tells us the opposite. And since I lost my grandmother in March, that has been hard. It has been hard in many ways. Part of it is like- going back here is - I cannot live my life at the pace that I was living in the past. I was- I felt like an owl. I felt like I was flying. I felt like I was spiritually disconnected. It's this big transformation and realizing - I don't think my grandmother would want that for me. I don't think my ancestors want that for me.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And they're reminding me that I need to go back and center myself and my essence of who I am as an individual. That means challenging these capitalism and white supremacy ideologies about productivity. So yes, self care is radical. It's political because it goes against capitalism, patriarchy, white supremacy, todo lo demas. White supremacy and these institutions don't want us to take care of ourselves, because we're powerful beings and we can do so- we're doing so much ready, imaginate?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

I don't know. I feel like it's a way to get you busy and disconnected from your essence, from your spirituality, from your calling to do all these amazing things. I know that might not resonate with a lot of people, but this is what I've been reflecting spiritually. When begin to challenge these capitalist ideologies and white supremacy, that's our ancestral wisdom. We gotta let our ancestral wisdom rise, you know? And it's been oppressed through our education system. But you know, we both are academics. The indigenous epistemology is so important.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

But it's not valid in academia. And I'm here inviting our community to tap into that, because that is powerful, and that is radical.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

That's transformative. Once you do that, man. Quien te va parar?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I'm reminded- even this platica, like having a platica, having conversations. It's like the oral histories of all the folks coming behind us. And you're talking about the kind of leaning into your ancestral knowledge- this is not what's encouraged. It's not encouraged for us to learn from experience, to learn from our ancestors, to learn from the things that cannot be easily documented, cannot be easily archived.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And scientifically proven.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh my gosh.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Gosh, that's why it's so hard. I feel very vulnerable talking to you about this, because these ideas and these feelings and this spiritual connection is not validated in these systems. But you know what?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But yet I feel like when you're closer to it, and in tune with it, you feel it.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, it's powerful. Like yes, exactly. It's not easy. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of work. There's a lot of intergenerational trauma, a lot of healing in the process of connecting to our ancestral wisdom, and into our ancestors and what they would like us to continue to do. That's what guides my work. You know, when my grandma passed away, my ancestors told me how to honor her on her funeral. It's like, wow. It felt deep. I was like, wow. Then I allowed my ancestors to guide me, and to continue to guide me.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

And it's like, I had an aha moment. My ancestry is Huichol, and I'm like, okay. You know, my ancestors are the caretakers of the peyote. I've lost that because of the colonialism, you know. But if I am not in - I can't go and be in certain spaces in Mexico, and I might not be able to take care of the peyote or do certain traditions or certain rituals. But then my ancestors are saying your work is healing, right-either your academic work, the work that you do in the community, your health coaching. Honestly, that's how I see it. I am part of that lineage, and I am using it in a different way. And that's the calling, and I am allowing myself to be guided to do that work. But that is an ancestral connection. I don't expect your community who's listening to fully understand, but I feel it here. I have that connection that is so strong, and that's what guides the work that I do. And I want to cry now.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I just want to thank you for sharing. Thank you so much for sharing. I really felt it. You know, just in my experience, from having lost loved ones myself in the past, I think that there's this closeness that you really feel when there's- it's almost like the opening of a portal when there's a life or death situation, whether there is a birth or a death in the family, that raw feeling that you get, and the messages. And if you open yourself up to that messaging, it can be really healing.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

For me, I lost my father when I was twelve. And I have a very bad memory, but I distinctly remember him coming back in my dreams to give me that last message. I still remember what he told me, and I'm never gonna forget that. I just really don't think I'm ever gonna forget that. So I can sense that you had something similar in terms of that feeling that you got with the passing of your grandmother, and that you are honoring her in the ways that you know best.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Hopefully folks who listen to this podcast- because there is a lot of grief that folks are going through. I just recently released an episode all about how do you navigate grief, especially different professional forms of grief and life transitions.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And when dealing with grief, it's important to open yourself up to the messaging and to allow yourself to see where it takes you. You know, to feel the feelings and to do what it is that feels right- the calling, whatever it is. For each of us it's different.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah, absolutely. And this is an invitation for the community who's listening, that we need to normalize our feelings. We need to normalize our grief. We need to normalize- if it's anger, sadness. All these different feelings that we have, we need to normalize them. We need to embrace them, because academia strips us from that, from being tuned to our feelings. We're not supposed to feel. We're not supposed to be sort of this emotionally engaged.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

That was my grad school experience, and how can I not be invested in my community and the research that I was doing, if it was going to have an impact or if it was affecting my community. We are taught to basically put up a front and not show our emotions.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

I'm here to really challenge that. This is who we are as human beings. Of course, we need to find if it's a safe space, if it's going to be a space where you will be honored. I mean, there's a lot of things to consider. It's very contextual, but we need to normalize crying. We need to normalize all these different feelings in grad school.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

You're telling someone who is a chillona.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. You know, I didn't realize I was a chillona until maybe a year ago. I was like, oh. Now I know why I'm a chillona, because I was never allowed to cry. And I was crying when I realized. I was like, oh, I felt so much. I went through so much oppression growing up. Porque lloras? No estes llorando. And I wouldn't cry, and I would cry silently or I would cry hiding.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Now, I just cry because it's like, all this oppression that I felt. Now it's like, I cry freely. And I let my kids know.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

You know, I feel like crying and today's a tough day. I am very expressive to my kids about how I'm feeling. Tambien, when I'm mad. I'm like, okay kids. You know, you're pushing it. Ya estoy enojada. So you're communicating that, because we don't want to continue those intergenerational cycles, right?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Because that's not good for kids. So yeah, let's normalize our feelings. Let's normalize our grief, our sadness, our happiness. Not just the happy things, like toxic positivity and social media. Aqui estoy para decir.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

That's a whole other topic tambien. yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. But it's connected, because we're supposed to always be smiling. We're supposed to be happy. And yes, we are. You know, I'm happy about things that I've accomplished, about all this. But I feel like when I share how I feel, it's like- ay, you're pessimistic. Just get over it. It's like, you just don't know how to sit with my feelings. We're not taught to just be in the presence of others when we're not okay. It's like we have too numb those feelings like that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Like the "how are you" question?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

When people ask, how are you? And you're expected to say, I'm good.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I cannot say I'm good if I'm not good.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes, I'm like that, too. In meetings- oh, I love doing this at the grocery store, everywhere. Being a sociologist, I try to disrupt these spaces all the time in a very organic way. And people are like, oh, wait, what? When I even ask them, people are like- oh. Because they were so conditioned and trained to use this- like, oh, I'm doing well. But when you're like, no, I'm not. People are not ready to respond. Because you're not expected to. You're expected to just pretend everything's okay.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. Right now we're getting close to wrapping things up. I feel like you already shared a lot of really amazing closing words, but I'm wondering if there's anything else that you wanted to share, like any other closing thoughts or advice for first gen students of color as my primary audience. If they are struggling with any of these things, whether it's prioritizing themselves, their wellness, their joy, feeling their feelings, getting back to kind of tuning into ancestral ways of being, decolonization- all of that. We could go on and on.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

I know, I know.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

There's so much.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Or any more dichos?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si. I really thought about this last one, thinking how I would like to end. I have so much, so many tips that I would like to give. One of the first one is be unapologetically you. Be unapologetically you. Be who you are in the different spaces that you navigate, especially if these are white spaces. You have so much ancestral wisdom. You have so much power. Tap into that. Don't let these white institutions to take that away from you. That's one thing.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

The other one is be very compassionate with your journey in life- compassion for yourself in your journey in grad school, when you're eating, relationships, everything. Compassion is hard. We are our worst critics, right? We're really hard on ourselves. And I'm learning to be very compassionate with myself. So that's hard work.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Number three, set boundaries. Sounds easy, but it's hard, especially with family, especially the toxic family members, setting those boundaries. And again, boundaries are gonna look very different. It might be like, I'm gonna pick up the phone, because I'm being triggered. That's even setting a boundary- deciding when you're going to pick up the call, if you want to or not, if you're going to engage in that conversation or reframing whatever they're saying. So boundaries with your loved ones is important.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Then again, the last one- since we started with health, wellness and nutrition- is, don't be hard on yourself. Don't be judgmental and feel guilty for the food choices that you're making, especially when you're a student. If you are experiencing food insecurity, or if you don't have a big budget, be okay and be flexible with your eating. If that means that you're eating a combination of pre-made food that you buy at the store- you're buying a rotisserie chicken, or if you buy already food that is pre made, pre packed that is frozen, that is canned. You know, all that is food.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So I'm really inviting you to just nourish your body with the foods that you have available, that are available for you. You don't need to always eat fresh fruits and vegetables. A lot of people don't have access to that. People don't have access to time. So nourishment is individual, it's individualized.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

So I'm here to just tell you to begin that journey in dismantling and challenging those narratives about food. Don't give a moral value to food, because that's where the guilt comes in. Like this is healthy - we healthify food. Food is just food. It has different nutritional value, yes. And you know what? Those Doritos- when I was in undergrad, they got me through school. I experienced food insecurity. And los maruchas - the noodle soups. That's what caught me through school when I was an undergrad.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yeah, maybe it's seen as bad food or processed. But you know what? That was what was available for me back then. And so I am healing my relationship with noodles. I still am, because it causes trauma.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

If you need to eat processed food because that's what's available, don't let other people shame you. Especially with minoritized communities, that's the first thing people do. We're shamed for food choices. But our food choices are shaped by all these other external things.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. Well thank you for that. I think that final message is especially important, because it's one thing to say we're gonna focus on your health and nutrition, and do this and that. But we actually don't know what's going on on the other side. We can't assume what anybody's means, capacities, circumstances are. So I love that you're saying that, like just work with what you have, what's within your means. And to kind of eliminate the guilt, the shame, and the good bad messaging.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes. Because that's rooted in white supremacy, and it's racist and elitist. So how can I come here and tell you eat whole foods, eat vegetables.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

All organic.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

All organic. No. What am I doing? I'm just perpetrating further oppression and racist thinking and elitist thinking. But you know what? Us in the Latinx communities, it's so internalized in many ways. We're already labeling people because they're eating frozen fruit, or they're eating canned fruit, you know? Si no les gustan los vegetables, that's one thing too.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

But the fact is that people need to have autonomy for their food choices. But again, there's other structural issues that we need to address about the food supply system. That's a whole different podcast. You know, why? Why do we have to make certain concessions with our food choices too?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we didn't get to cover all of that, like the food deserts and availability, and classism, and all that stuff.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

But that's important, right?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Especially since you're bringing all this together as a grad student. It's like, sometimes we feel bad for the food choices that we're making. But you have to remind yourself that this is based on our social class. It's based on the communities that we come from and what we have access to or not. And give yourself a lot of compassion.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And it might change tambien, you know?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Like you said, you're healing your relationship with the noodles.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Si.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And your circumstances are probably very different from when you were eating ramen noodles.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Exactly, yes. And not to be in a place where you're like, oh, this is better eating or this is healthier. Or this is what you should be doing - that's problematic.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeayh. Okay, so for folks- I know I said that was the final closing words. But for folks who have resonated with what you said today, and would like to stay in touch in some way, shape or form, how can they reach you?

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

They can follow me on Instagram at Dr. Hortencia Jimenez, and that's the only platform I have right now. I had TikTok. But I closed it when I started my grief. I was like, I just need to focus on one thing at a time.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

You can do social media. Also, you can send me an email at uturntowellness@gmail.com. And I'm sure you'll put that in.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes, they will be in the show notes.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

You can reach out if you have any questions. I'm more than happy to engage in conversation.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Ah, thank you so much Dr. Hortencia. It was so lovely to have you on today sharing your wisdom, your knowledge, your experiences, y todo, todo, mucho mucho mas. I really appreciated our time together, and I'm so glad that you were able to share space with me today.

Dra. Hortencia Jimenez

Pues, muchas gracias. Thank you so much for reaching out, for inviting me. It was fun, and I wish everyone the best of luck in their grad journey, in higher education. You know, take care of yourself.