149: Repurposing Your Education and Controlling Your Career After Grad School With Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Welcome back, everyone, to the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This is your host Dra. Yvette, and today we have an episode all about repurposing your education and controlling your career after grad school. Our special guest is Dr. Zakiya Akerele.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

She is a third generation educator, passionate about lifelong growth and learning. Oh, I love that. She holds degrees from Florida A&M University, Columbia University and Fordham University, in areas including International Educational Development, Philosophy, and Religious Studies, and has served as a professor in other capacities in higher ed institutions, social justice, political and NGOs in the US and abroad. Dr. Zakiya is also the author of Dump Your Degree- How to Repurpose Your Education, Control Your Career and Gain Financial Freedom, which provides practical advice for students, grads and early professionals on navigating their careers. Welcome to the show Dr. Zakiya.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I'm really happy. I'm excited. I feel like that that title is a really strong title. I love it, though. I think that those are the conversations we need to be having. At some point, in this recording, I would like for you to also tell us a little bit more about your book.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I'm gonna have you get started the way we can start with most of our guests, which is for you to just tell us a little bit more about yourself, your background, your backstory, and everything that led up to you becoming who you are today, doing what you do today. I know that's a big question, so whatever you're comfortable sharing.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Where do I start? Basically, like you mentioned, I'm a third generation educator. My grandmother was an elementary school teacher for many years. She retired as such. My mother owned an Early Learning Development Center for many years. Then myself, I got passionate about higher education. I was a professor for many years. Right now, I'm a full time author. But education is my thing. I love learning, reading, anything that has to do with continued growth, as mentioned.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

One of my passions is helping people to follow their passion. And being an academician, being in the academic background, I see a lot of people who are really good at learning, but once they get out into the real world, or after they graduate, face certain challenges in finding who they are. So one of the things that I have taken on as my mission is to help guide people to living out their passions, using their education, but not boxing themselves in or limiting themselves by it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Right, right. And do you feel like in your circumstance or in your situation- you said you're a third generation educator?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

For some folks, that path is not as straightforward. They're not like, oh, this is in my blood. Did you ever wonder or want to stray from that path in your own trajectory, when you went to college. You have a wide range of degrees.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

They don't even match, but in a way they do. I had no intentions of being an educator. I wanted to go to law school.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

This is interesting. I want to hear more.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yes, so I had intentions of going to law school. I actually was a poli sci major that fell in love with Philosophy and Religious Studies- learning about cultures and traditions and how people get their roots. That just fascinated me. So when I had taken some electives, I was like, wait a minute. I can change my major to this and still go to law school? They were like, yeah, you can major in anything in undergrad. Ok I'm changing my major-changed to religion and philosophy. Plus people said using a philosophy degree had some crossover with legal studies and the law. So I said, okay, great. Took the LSAT, and didn't do that well.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

So I was like, what am I going to do with my life? But because I had fell in love with, like I said, religious studies and philosophy, I said, you know what? I want to teach this. I want to work in a field where I can educate people on being inclusive, learning about cultures. I ended up doing that and getting involved in conflict resolution between interfaith groups and things like that. That's what kind of opened the door for the social justice aspect, and I ended up doing research on how religious groups- how it impacted their education. I had the crossover with that degree and then going into international education. So I am a third generation educator, but it wasn't on purpose.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh wow. Thank you so much for sharing, because that's what I was curious about. I was like, so how did you get to this place? Did you know all along?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

No.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Some folks say I've known since I was five years old. I cannot stop studying whatever it is- marine biology or whatnot.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Not me.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

For some of us- and for a lot of us actually, I'm hearing more and more- it's not a straight and narrow path. Well, that helps us to get into today's conversation, which is all about repurposing your education and also controlling your career. So can you tell us, what do you mean by these phrases- repurpose your education, control your career?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Right. When I finished my doctorate in 2010, it was in the middle of a recession. And so I didn't find work at all. I finished my doctorate at Fordham, which is in New York City. I had hoped to go back to the city, maybe find work. I couldn't find work. So I ended up going back to Florida, which is where I was raised. And there were no jobs in my field. I'm like, what am I going to do?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

I ended up working, being severely underemployed, just finding something to do. I was like, I cannot continue on this path. I have to figure out- I don't care if it's a recession. Somebody's gonna hire me to do things that I enjoy, and that are at least at my level of qualifications.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

While I could not find jobs for about three years, like full time work. I did adjunct work. But you know how that is, that it's not necessarily that stable. It doesn't pay well. So I said, okay, I have to figure this thing out. And I said, well, what are the skills, the talents that I have, outside of my degree field? Because I was so boxed into- this is what my degrees are in. I must work in my field. This is what I studied.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

And I had to have a conversation with myself, that no. You don't. There's a world of possibilities out there, and there are other things you can enjoy, that what you've learned can transfer to. So I ended up- my first stable, contract consulting job ended up being with a NGO that did international research. They happen to be in the city I was living in. They needed to have a research base there that they'd never opened before. And I'm like, okay, this is the door open, and how do I get in? And I was like, but they're not looking for somebody with a background in religious studies.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

But it was for research. I know how to research. I have a PhD. So I figured out a way to have a conversation, to get my foot in the door with an interview. But then once being at the interview, having the conversation about what I can bring to them, that were skills based. How I could connect them to the community and basically help them with the needs that they had- not necessarily focusing on my academic background. So that's what I mean by repurposing. How can you think outside of that box and not just focus on what the degree says? That's the biggest thing.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I have a follow up question. The follow up question is, how do you determine what your skill set is? And then I want to just comment before you answer that, because I run into this issue with a lot of existing grad students where academia tends to be very apprenticeship based, and there's not a lot of flexibility or options that are presented to them outside of going on the tenure track and continuing to become a professor. Then outside of that, outside of them not knowing what options they have, they also tend to be focusing on a specialization. So it's always about what you study, rather than the how you study that. That's why I want you to share a little bit more, you know, bring some insight to this topic that is sorely needed for current grad students- about how do we figure this out?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Well, you have to have a conversation with yourself, you know what I'm saying? You figure it out by back mapping it out. That's one of the things that I even talk about in my book, is setting goal. Doing some just basic goal setting, but focusing- bringing your career into conversation with that. And looking at what is your passion outside of the degree, because sometimes it could just be tedious work. That you care about, because it's something that you're studying, but it just becomes a chore. What are some of the passions?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Then figure out what skills- things that come to you naturally. There are a lot of things that people are talented just naturally, without having to go to school for. Those are some skills that you could have and that you can present in your industry, but also outside of your industry. It depends on the person. That's how you sit down, have that conversation. Figure out your passions. Look at your talents. And like you mentioned, some people know things from the time they were a child. But sometimes we get lost, right? We get into this career trajectory, and then we're like, I forgot. I was really passionate about something. You might want to go back to that, and connect that to what you're studying now. It's so many layers to it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Right, right. Thank you. Yeah, I can completely agree with that. I've heard so many folks, who when I ask them, what do you love to do? They go back to the thing that they loved in their childhood. I love to sing. I love to write. I love to research. I love to go out in nature. So I think that's good. It's that reflection, and actually slowing down and taking that time, which a lot of times it doesn't feel like folks are encouraged to do that.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yeah. Can I add something to that? Unfortunately, for a lot of us that are people of color, we're told so often that we have to get something that's considered functional and stable. So we get lost in these degrees that we might not even enjoy, but that we feel is going to give us the stability that maybe those before us that didn't get that opportunity thought was stable. They might have pushed us along that way. And then those things, like you said, somebody might love to sing and not see how their passion in some way could tie into a career. And it's not to say, I don't want to do the career that I'm studying, but ways that you can have balance, and maybe that you can connect your passion with your academic studies and create a career out of that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah. One thing that I remind students about is sometimes there's this seeming stability in certain types of jobs and professions. In actuality, once you actually get in the door, you realize you could get fired tomorrow. Something could happen. You never know. There's layoffs in all kinds of industries. So I think it should be a healthy combination of the two, of doing something you enjoy or are good at, but then at the same time, not letting it completely become your identity, where you can't see your life outside of it. Because that can happen too with my listeners. They're so tied into I'm an academic. I'm an academic. But there are options outside of that, where you can still do what you enjoy to do or what you're good at, or what will pay your bills.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Exactly, exactly.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Now so when you said the phrase- I'm getting a better sense of how you repurpose your education. But then taking control of your career. With that phrase, what comes to mind for me- take control of your career- is there are so many folks that are a little lost right now. They're trying to figure out- maybe they're recent grads or they're early career professionals, and they're thinking they want to make a transition, and they're not 100% sure. You know, sometimes folks will say, I think I want to be a social worker. But then I also want to be a career counselor. Or I think I want to work K through 12, but then I also want to do higher ed. And those are two very different- I mean, they're related, but they're very different careers. How does controlling your career kind of lend some insight into those types of conversations?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Well, you know, me having a background in different things myself- going from academia, studying religious studies, international ed, now writing a book about career advice. And I did end up, interestingly enough, becoming a vocational counselor some years ago. That's a whole nother story, of how I went from someone doing conflict resolution and interfaith things to being a vocational counselor. So there are ways that you can mix the two, or try out those different passions.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

But more so when I say control your career, I'm speaking about- a lot of times when we get out into the real world, we're looking for career. We're putting the control in the hands of those doing the hiring. It's like, I hope these people hire me. Oh, I'm waiting on this callback. I hope I get an interview. And you have no control over that. They can tell you to kick rocks. They could ghost you. Then what?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

I was in that position, where I'm just waiting for callbacks. I had no control. I want people to be able to graduate, get out into the real world. If they don't get their dream job, if no one calls them back, if they don't get that tenure track position that they were hoping for. They can create a career from their own hands, whatever that may be, so that they don't have to put the control in the hands of those doing the hiring. It's in their hands. Whether that looks like consulting, freelancing, starting your own business, and using the skills, talent, and the education that you have to do that. That's what I mean by control your own career. Don't wait for a phone call.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

You answered my follow up question. I was gonna say, what are some examples of how you can control your career. I'm glad that you brought up the consultancy, freelancing, starting your own business. This was not the path that I thought I was gonna go on, because my mom, she's Mexican, immigrant, business owner in the US, and she did not want this for me. You know, there's a lot of ups and downs. The first couple of years, she says, you have to have a lot of- just having some sort of safety net and patience to develop your business. And it's so funny, just to, then all of a sudden- she's like, but you got an education. Why? I was like, because I'm taking control.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Right, there you go.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I do think that that is an option for a lot of folks and is becoming more and more common and more accessible, especially in light of the rise of remote work. There are even more- I'm hearing about companies that are then taking on folks to help them find freelance work. So that it's not just here and there, but it can be closer to more of a stable paycheck, which is I know, what sometimes draws people back is like, oh, I don't have a paycheck. I don't have benefits, things like that. There's a movement there that's happening.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yeah, if done right- so many freelancers, I know many of them who have paid off their debt, and they live and actually make more than they did at their nine to five. There's this stigma around oh, it's not stable. Like we mentioned before, a job might not be stable. Like recently, you see in the news all of these people who were recently hired, and then their offers were rescinded. They made these life decisions, probably bought a house or moved or whatever. Now, what are they gonna do? This is not blaming them, but if they had another option available to them, where they understand that there's not stability in anything, but you can at least control one aspect of it by already having yourself out there, as an expert in this, or a consultant in that. So that you can have income generating.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Exactly. I think it also brings to light this conversation about having more than one income stream.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I know that financial literacy, financial education, personal finance is not something that's taught to folks in college and in grad school. It's even less common in communities of color, first gen communities, immigrant communities. So that's just something to remind folks, that they don't have to have one paycheck and one job. That if they have multiple income streams, and if they know that there are ways for them to make money outside of just the nine to five, then they'll be even more empowered.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Exactly. Yeah, I know when I was teaching- it's hard for me to stay in one place. I love traveling. I was telling my mom after I had got my tenure track position, and she's like okay, you're finally stable. You're making good money. And I'm like, I don't know how long I will stay here. She was like, you better leave this job. It was like, the best thing. She's like, I've never made that much money in my life, and you're talking about.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

And I'm like, but look. That's not the end all, be all. At any time, your job can say, bye bye. I shouldn't place all of my life focus on my career. That got to a point where I was, and my personal life suffered. Who I was as a person suffered, because I was so focused on this tenure track position, and hoping to get tenure. But my life was not aligning in the way I wanted it to. But because, like you said, being from a community where certain privileges were not afforded. Even though I'm a third generation educator- again, I had reached heights that those before me hadn't. So it was kind of like, don't you dare mess this up. But I had to take my own path.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I wonder what the fourth generation

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

I'm already getting him started, okay. I'm telling him, you don't have to go to school. I hope your listeners don't hate this.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I'm laughing because I tell my son- I have two kids, and my older child, I tell him that too. I was like, you know what? You have a lot of options. You don't have to go to school, but if you don't, you're gonna have to still learn. There are other ways to learn.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Exactly. I was like, I hope she's not gonna kick me off the show. But yeah, that's exactly what I tell my kids. And I'm exposing them early. Whatever they're passionate about, they can go for. Then also teaching them that financial literacy. My husband is like, we should start teaching them financial literacy. I'm like the baby is ninteen months. What is she gonna learn now?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

You know what? They listen.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

They do.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

My partner and I, we always are talking about money. We're just very open that way. My son hears it all the time, and so he uses words like budget and savings.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yes. I get it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

He's like maybe I'll buy this, but then I'm gonna have to save for three more months to be able to afford it. I'm like yeah, that's right.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yeah, so this fourth generation is going to be amazing for me. I'm already proud of them.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

So I am looking, for folks who are not watching the video, I'm looking at your background, and I see this really nice image of your book, Dump Your Degree- How to Repurpose Your Education, Control Your Career and Gain Financial Freedom. I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about it, about what made you want to write this book, maybe share a couple of gems from it- whatever is not too much to share. Then how folks can get a copy.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

It's basically a book of advice that I wish I had, before I started undergrad even/ Things that I wish I knew about. First chapter coming in is don't listen to your parents. And I don't mean completely just ignore all their advice, but basically, don't allow other people to make the life decisions for you. Be respectful of the advice that you get, but always seek better advice, whether it's through a mentor, learning on your own, apprenticeship, internship, whatever it is, a network of people. But don't just allow others to choose your destiny for you.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Also it goes along with how to choose the right path for you. What are you passionate about? How do you set the goals for your career, in your profession? I wrote it because of the challenges I faced with unemployment after I finished my PhD, and I took it personal. I was like, oh, this is just me. Nobody's calling me back, and I'm not factoring in- this a recession. You have degrees in soft degrees, that are not necessarily in high demand, and don't give you that return.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

So I have those discussions with the readers in the book, but also I talk about student loan debt, which I wish I did not get into and how do you avoid it and repay it, and what careers will actually pay that back for you. Then I also talk about other ways of putting yourself out there, creating a community of people who can open doors for you. Things that I was not taught, as far as like networking, but really relationship building in a professional way.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Also things like budgeting, and negotiating salary, and having savings, and funds for when or if your job tells you later days. So just a book of advice, but also things that they can do to plan ahead, questions that they can ask themselves. How they can kind of look for that path, carve out that path for themselves in their own career, and have that control that they should have over their own career. Again, not allowing others to take that control from them.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

That's great. I think with me noticing a lot of the recent grads, this is going to be a great book for them, for anybody who's maybe either a recent grad or kind of looking to transition in their career. A lot of folks are needing that type of support and advice and guidance.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yes, yes.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Now, I would like to ask for your advice, actually. Let's say- some of my students, maybe they're trying to figure out their career trajectory. Maybe they are that recent grad, maybe it's my younger brother who just graduated. My youngest brother just graduated from college. He's taking a gap year and I asked him what he wants to do. He says, I don't know. For folks in that type of situation who are still trying to figure themselves out and their career out, what advice would you share with them? I know it might be similar to what you share in your book about kind of controlling your career.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

I definitely would say it's okay not to know. I would say this to young people, or people of any age. It's okay not to know. You can shift. You can pivot at any time. You can evolve, and figure out that you like something else completely. You want to go in a different direction completely.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

I'm in a few college groups, and a lot of times the questions come in like it's like a life or death situation of what am I gonna do? I'm like, it's not. You have your whole life ahead of you. Even if you major in something and get a degree in something that you find out that you don't want to pursue later in life, that's okay. You can still use the skills you develop. You can still use the the knowledge that you acquire, and use it in a career. So I think, again, it's okay not to know. Follow your passion. Take your own path. And also, always be open to learning. Because we live in an information age, there's so much free access to knowledge that you can continue to take throughout the years and completely change your career trajectory, even with that. Within a whole nother field, without even having to go get another degree if you don't want to. Just be open.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Right. Those are wonderful words, might even be closing words. I'm wondering if you have any other last thoughts that you want to share related to the topic of today or your book or what you do? You can tell us a little bit, if there's anything else?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Yeah, so that is actually the advice that I like to leave with, is to tell people follow your passions. Don't be so caught up in academia, or what you've already pursued and feel like you're stuck there. Don't box yourself in to one thing for life. As humans, we're multi layered. We have many different routes to take, you know, many different possibilities. So always remain open, and if there's something that you find later in life, or down the line that you want to pursue, by all means do that. Just follow your passion. Follow your bliss, and enjoy- no matter what your academic or professional background is.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I love that. For folks who have resonated with everything that you shared today and would like to connect in some way, shape or form, how can they reach you?

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Oh, I love connecting. I'm on LinkedIn, and Tiktok and Instagram. I don't use Twitter. Maybe I should hop on there, but that's just not my space anymore. I'm also on Facebook. Across the board, Zakiya Akerele. That's me. I think I'm the only one in the world possibly. Also they can connect and find my book at any online retailer, whether it's Amazon, Barnes and Noble, books a million, Walmart, Apple books, everywhere. It's online, so they can purchase it there. Then also, my website is ZakiyaAkerele.com.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Perfect. I will add those links to the show notes. It's been such a pleasure chatting with you. I really, I feel like I can echo every single thing that you said. Thank you so much for coming on the show, and for sharing space with us.

Dr. Zakiya Akerele

Thank you for having me. I enjoyed the conversation.