143: What Everyone Needs to Know About Disability and Academia with Liu Miao

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Welcome back, everyone to another episode of the Grad School Femtoring Podcast. Today I have a special episode all about disability and academia. Our guest today is Liu Miao, who is a third year PhD student in Human Development and Family Sciences. She is passionate about research on positive youth development, cross cultural studies, immigrant youth as well as foster and adoption. When she's not doing academic work, you can find her drawing on an iPad while listening to music on Spotify, drinking coffee, and having a good time with friends. Welcome to the podcast, Liu.

Liu Miao

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh, I'm happy to have you. I was so pleased when you said yes when I made that invitation, just because I have been following you on social media. I greatly appreciate the information and the content that you provide, which is so informative and knowledgeable. I can relate to some of it. I'm also learning as well. So I think you have a wealth of knowledge and experience that my listeners, who are primarily first gen, students of color, will definitely benefit from. For those folks who don't know you, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself, your background, your backstory, and anything you're comfortable sharing about who you are? And also how you got to where you are today, which is- you're in grad school. You're studying human development and family sciences, and you do content creation as well, which is a whole other job in and of itself.

Liu Miao

Wow, trying to fit my story into -

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Well, whatever you're comfortable sharing. Some folks, they'll go all the way back.

Liu Miao

I'll just do a brief family history. I was actually adopted from China during the one child policy. So that's interesting. I was very fortunate to be in a better family, instead of living in the orphanage for the rest of my life. I'm the youngest of seven kids, but five of them were all a lot older. I didn't really live with them. My dad went to college, but since his college experience was through the navy, it was very different. So his advice really couldn't help me, because he wasn't the traditional young 18 year old student. He was a person in the navy, so he was able to get in. He had different requirements and resources. So his advice for college didn't really help. His only advice that did help was, you know, do the best you can and study. But he never had to do all the forms that a lot of college students have to do. Since it was through the navy, it was a lot different. They didn't have the same forms.

Liu Miao

I did my undergrad at a very small university in Dallas. Primarily, my classmates were of Hispanic descent, that's how I started loving the different spanish speaking cultures, and learning about the variety of the cultures in the Hispanic speaking population. My minor is actually in Spanish. My major is in Psychology.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I had no idea.

Liu Miao

I actually worked primarily with the Spanish speaking community. I'm in the Spanish honor society, and that's how I got really interested in cross cultural studies is because I had so many friends from the different areas of North America and South America, just teaching me about the culture. They kind of adopted me. I was called tenita a lot with my students, because I actually tutored students who were permanent residents to become citizens. They were able to do that process. And it was so interesting hearing their stories, and how how long it took them to get to that process, even though they worked very hard. Some of these people were permanent residents for 35 years. They finally got the appointment, which is like, wow. They've been working so hard, and I just had a newfound respect. I didn't realize the struggle, because my immigration story is very different. It was being able to connect with those people, helping them because you could see that they really wanted to just be the best people they can be in America. They wanted citizenship and they were working very hard. I still keep up with some of the students, and they got to vote in the last election. It was so sweet. So yeah, I did a lot of volunteering in undergrad.

Liu Miao

How I got into grad school was actually very interesting. I was not supposed to go to grad school. I was supposed to go to medical school. But then I had a change of heart in my third year in undergrad. I ended up doing grad school, got into a postbacc, Ph.D program, which basically means you do your masters and your PhD all in the same university program, instead of doing it separately. I'm currently finishing up the Masters portion. COVID definitely played a role in my graduate studies, because it happened right in the middle of my first year. So grad school was a little bit of a culture shock, and then you also had COVID. It was quite interesting navigating it. I finally feel more like, oh, I somewhat understand what I'm doing after like a few years. I feel somewhat competent, but not really. But I've just been doing classes, research. I've worked on a book chapter. I've done some community service with a read on mental health and the police. A lot of the lab I was working in, it was a lot of community based research, or we were doing a conference, posters and presentations. I do want to expand to qualitative, but that won't be until the fall.

Liu Miao

What got me interested in content creation was actually my first year of undergrad. I wanted to create a space to help people who may not have a person to talk to about college life in general. Even though my parents- my dad went to college, it was such a varied experience. It didn't really connect, because he didn't have to do some of the same things- trying to figure out paperwork, and paying your tuition, making sure you write the check right. It's verwhelming, so I wanted to provide some free resources to help students who may not not have anyone to talk to, or even if they do have family, they might not be close with their family. Whatever reason.

Liu Miao

That's how I got into content creating. I first did a blog, but I primarily moved more into Instagram and Tiktok, just because sometimes people don't want to read a whole blog post. It's also taught me basically how to effectively share information, but in a condensed way. I feel like I also try to incorporate science into it and cited sources, just because not everyone has access to academic journals.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Right.

Liu Miao

And I fully believe as a researcher and as an academic, you really need to be able to share that knowledge with the general people in layman's terms.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes, that is so important. I can resonate with that as well. As soon as I had access to higher education and to this wealth of knowledge, I just felt like I couldn't not share it with others. I'm glad that you mentioned that. You mentioned how you got into content creation. So it's been a while. You have some experience there, if you said you were interested in it from undergrad into now.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, academic Instagram wasn't really a thing in 2015. I've been doing it for quite a while.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, that's like with me and podcasting, because my first podcast was this collective of mother scholars called Chicana Mother Work. We would literally go to East LA to a little studio and record there. Social media wasn't really a thing and these apps to make your life easier, they weren't a thing. So I feel like the venues, outlets, spaces to make knowledge more accessible have definitely increased. Which is good, because today we're talking about disability in academia. One of the big things that makes a huge difference is trying to make work, information, what we do, more accessible. One way to do that is to share it in spaces and in formats that kind of are reaching wider audiences.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I would love for you to kind of share a little bit more about what got you started with sharing a little bit more about specifically disability rights and disability in grad school? I know you have different topics that you cover in terms of content creation. But in terms of the space and the discussion of disability, how did you get into that? If you don't mind sharing.

Liu Miao

Yeah, what I always tell people is in my content creation, you can break it up into three categories- research, life and drawing. So, life is just life. Drawing is anything artistic, and research is grad school. If we go under that umbrella of research, I'm very passionate about disability rights, especially in the field of academia, just because I'm in it. Obviously, disability rights applies to so many other areas. But personally, I have a disability myself. It's a very noticeable physical disability with my hips. Grad school, really, I started getting more into disability in academia, especially in grad school, because I didn't realize how grad school was like- it's a little like, they kind of don't care, in a sense sometimes. I've had some personal experience, and other friends who are in academia getting their degrees.

Liu Miao

Grad school is not always the most accommodating. Even though they say, we want diversity. And I always tell them, diversity is also disability. It's not just race and ethnicity, which is very important, or gender. But disability, ability is often a little kind of thrown out when you're talking about diversity and everything. I just realized how inaccessible grad school was, and then I was talking to people, even just on the undergrad level. They mentioned their experiences of having inaccessible-ness. And then I've talked with people who are actually professors, who already have their degree with disabilities, and they've mentioned how just getting the discrimination, and how hard it is to find a job. It's already hard to find a job with a PhD, and then you add disability and people assume things, the stereotypes.

Liu Miao

I was just like, wow. This is a topic that needs to be discussed, and I think that it's very important to have someone discuss it who actually is experiencing it to. And also I wanted to discuss it because you don't see a lot of content creators with disabilities. Imean, it's okay if they don't want to mention it. That's totally fine. But we need someone to mention it, and there are very few disabled academic creators that will talk about it and the injustice in grad school. I think if we can get more disabled creators to talk about it, it'd be really good.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Well, I'd like to talk about it. And actually, I want to expand a little bit more on what you said about how in spaces of higher ed- so we're not just talking about K through 12. We're talking about college and grad school. You're saying that they're not very accommodating. I think that a lot of that has to do with one- clearly calling out, it's ableism. There's ableism everywhere, but it's really steeped in academic culture, because academic culture relies so much on hyper productivity to sustain itself. If there's anything that disrupts the way that they define productivity, then that's a problem.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But two, there's not a seamless system for accommodating students. Professors are not trained on how to work with disabled students. So at the very least- and not to say that K through 12 is great, because it has its own issues. But at least in the K through 12 system, if you have received a diagnosis early on, you have access to an IEP- the individual educational plan. You may have access to certain therapies and support and resources that are provided by the state. But in college, all of a sudden that goes away. Bye bye, IEP. And you have to go through a Disability Services Office, accessibility services, whatever they call it at that university. You have to go through all that paperwork, and get all this documentation for medical providers. And sometimes medical providers don't believe you, because disabilities look differently.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

For some of us, like in your case, you said mine is a visible disability. For others, it could be an invisible disability. There's a whole range of disabilities, and if you are one of those where it's invisible, and someone doesn't want to believe you- maybe you're struggling with endometriosis, and you're dealing with chronic pain or whatever it is. And you are a woman, and then add that a woman of color, and then add that the statistics of how many individuals with uteruses are not believed when they talk about chronic pain. Then they refuse to give you that signature for that paperwork that you need for that accommodation.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It's just, it's so multi layered that I feel like it's everywhere. I struggled with it myself with getting accommodations for myself. I didn't even dare to because I was not in a supportive grad school environment. But even as an employee, I struggled to get accommodations. People not believing you, people thinking you're trying to take advantage of the system for something that you need to be able to get an education. I'm sorry, I went on a rant.

Liu Miao

Oh no, I totally agree. And what's interesting to know is, one good thing that COVID brought out is zoom education. Because for a lot of people- like, there are some days I literally cannot get out of bed, or I'm crying. You can't go to the doctor's for that, because I know I didn't break anything. It's your body just messing up. But you can't go to the doctor. If I went to the doctor's every time I felt that, I would be going every day. You cannot afford that. Some people don't have insurance.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I've had people tell me, like supervisors, oh, if you don't feel well, you should just feel free to call in sick. And I'm like, I'm gonna call in sick every day. Because they don't understand how chronic illness and certain disabilities work.

Liu Miao

Zoom education has helped, because it made people realize- obviously, some classes you can't do by zoom, but a majority of classes you can do in zoom, and you can still fully participate. I'm like, why did it take so long for a professors to be like, hey. This is another avenue for disabled students to attend and participate. Or like with delivery drop off, like when you're doing pickup and you just stay in your car, like when you're picking up your textbooks. Instead of having to go in, because it can be a hassle. Just the COVID regulations, we could have been doing that all along. Like delivery pickup would have helped disabled students, so they don't have to go in the building. Especially the Zoom education, because sometimes your wheelchair might break. You might not have insulin that day, and you can't go. I feel like we should have been utilizing some of these tools so much more, because they could have greatly helped. Like yeah, you didn't have to go in person.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Just to expand, just some of us benefit from even this- having access to a recording, being able to listen to something a second or third time. I know I don't always retain information the first time I hear it, and I recall having professors, when I was in undergrad, who refused- and there are still professors like this- refuse to give you any access to technology in their classroom. You can only show up with a pen and paper. I would always have my hands cramping up and I could never take proper notes. Most of the time I felt like it was a waste. I wouldn't fully grasp the information, because I didn't have access to technology that would allow me to record, that would allow me to type, because I type faster than I write. We all have different tools that help us with our own learning. Even if you're not disabled per se, we all learn in different ways. That has never really made sense to me, why there's so many restrictions.

Liu Miao

Another interesting point about disability in academia, when you're in K through 12 in the US, there is usually a plan for getting students out in emergency. They come for all students, and they figure it out. Well, once you hit that college and up- I've been told by two different universities. Either call this number, talk to your head supervisor, or just wait for someone to come get you. Even though I physically can walk, if I'm on the fifth floor, and there's a fire on top of me, running down five flights of stairs is not gonna be good. Even though I physically could, I could probably just break something in the process. So I'm like, why isn't there any regulations on how to help disabled students and not have them wait while there could be an emergency?

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

There are literally campuses and buildings that are not ADA compliant, and it's so messed up. I mean, I am not someone who needs a mobility aid, but I have been a pregnant individual. I have had strollers on campuses. And when you are using something that requires using wheels, you start to notice, wait. I cannot get from point A to point B. Wow, this is not compliant.

Liu Miao

Or I've noticed- I use the elevators, because just walking upstairs is just gonna make me feel worse. I've noticed, why are the accessible doors and the elevators not close together. I'm like, you're putting the accessible doors and it's some random doorway. Instead of putting the accessible doors at the main entrance, which would make sense. Because if you're getting dropped off, it's easier to get dropped off at a main entrance of the building, versus some random doorway on the side of the building. I'm like, you're making it worse.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

You learn to be so creative and figure out your own routes when you can't just take the stairs, or take that hike up, whichever way.

Liu Miao

So you got to make a hike from the accessible door to the elevator, and then to your class or wherever you're going. It's a multi facet issue. And then another interesting point is, I was told, through my current university, I couldn't get accommodations for homework. I could only get them for in the physical classroom. And I'm like, but my disability doesn't leave when I leave the class. So me not being able to attend the class might be the same reason I can't finish this one homework, and I had to submit it four hours later, because I started feeling better. It doesn't really make sense. I mean, fortunately, my professors have been very accommodating and stuff, but it's based on whether or not they want to. Legally, they don't have to, because that's not an accommodation that the school offers.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Again, it's not centralized. It's on a case by case basis.

Liu Miao

I'm just like, why can't the school offer accommodations outside the classroom? It does not make sense. Maybe it's just my school.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

No it's not.

Liu Miao

That just does not make sense. You have accommodations in the classroom, but you need some outside. Because even if you have the syllabus and dates, it's like, you never know. You could have a flare up for three days and miss a deadline.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes. You know, it's interesting, I am part of social media platforms and also Facebook groups. Some of them are related to being an academic spoony, or being a disabled student. And one thing I've noticed across the board is that a lot of individuals are discouraged from seeking accommodations, because of one very bad incident they may have had with one professor. All of a sudden they have one bad incident, and that becomes a precedent for all future incidents. They assume that it's going to be like that every single time. Then they have a much lower chance of requesting accommodations. Then in turn, don't do as well in school. That's how students get pushed out, to be frank. That's what you're reminding me of, is just how there's a lack of consistency. There's a lack of centralizing this and then those professors that are not supportive kind of ruin it for everybody else. It's just really, really unfortunate.

Liu Miao

And then you also have that fear, even if it's an accommodation approved by the school, you always have that fear of people- the professors- judging you. Even though they say they don't, I truly feel like some actually do.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh, yeah. Even when they say it, you can hear it in their tone.

Liu Miao

That whole mentality of like, you just have to keep going. Work until you burn out. And I'm like, I can't be sleeping at the school like you. I physically can't be that dedicated, and it's not that healthy. I'm like, I need a break. They always just push you to continuously work. Some people can do that. Bless them, but I cannot. A lot of disabled people cannot. Then you also just feel different. Even though they don't say you have accommodations in the class, some accomodations are more noticeable. That also discourages some people. I have myself been discouraged to sometimes utilize accommodations, because it makes it obvious I have accommodations, from the ones that I need. It's like, I don't want to look different, but I need it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And then having to explain yourself when it is noticeable. I know, I remember being in grad school and having to ask for accommodations when I had my baby. You know, needing to go into a private lactation room and express milk, etc. It's kind of awkward to be like, okay, I'm leaving, and I'm coming back with my milk. My body needs to do something, because I need to feed another life. But you know, accommodations look like so many different things, and so many different ways. Sometimes you don't want to keep having to explain and justify yourself. You shouldn't have to.

Liu Miao

Yeah, and then I also relate in the sense of invisible disabilities, because I'm kind of- I tell people, I'm kind of both. Obviously, it's very obvious. I physically walk different. But people just think, oh, she just limps and just wattles. But they don't realize the complexity of my disability. It's actually ruining my joints, so it's causing severe joint issues. They don't realize, oh. She doesn't just walk different and wattles. I actually have chronic pain, and I have to be on so much medication. In regards to that, some grad programs, they have a lot of outside activities, and they kind of expect you to go to everything. I'm just like, you know, school and classes are already tiring. Not every disabled student has the energy to physically go and then go socialize with the same people you have to work with, or take classes with.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Can we talk about that a little bit more? Can we talk about the spoon theory maybe for a little bit? Because I have had conversations about disability in grad school. I've had at least one episode just dedicated to that with another guest, and we didn't get to talk about that. But I think that's what you are reminding me of, because I can relate to that, too. If someone is, maybe they are not requiring you to do something completely physically strenuous, but the act of having to stay on campus longer, or having to expend a lot of energy. Even if it's not just physical energy, but-

Liu Miao

like mental

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, that adds to and that can actually contribute to flare ups. So can we talk about that? About The Spoon Theory, and what it means to have less spoons than other people?

Liu Miao

Wow, so much. I really do love The Spoon Theory, just because people can understand a lot of things if they can physically see something. So if you're using spoons, most people know what a spoon is. I mean, generally speaking. And I just love that example. Disabled people, they only have so many spoons to get through the day. We have to prioritize- hey. We need these spoons to get through the main task of going to class, during your homework that's due tomorrow, and eating. We don't really have a lot of time to socialize outside of the basic necessities for that day. And it's very hard that a lot of programs have all these extra things. While they're very helpful, sometimes it's very tiring. Even if it's on Zoom or it is in person, if it's not class related, or specifically my job, I'm so tired. Like, yes, I might take a nap in the afternoon, but I am still tired.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh my gosh, the fatigue is so real. As someone who struggles with chronic fatigue, and as someone who I will raise my hand and say that too much Zoom is a thing. If I am on Zoom for too long, I will get a migraine that could last eight to ten hours. And people don't understand that. They don't understand the concept of like, it's not just what's physically demanding. Sometimes we have different triggers, and for me, screen time is a trigger. Too much of it can trigger my migraines or other things.

Liu Miao

I just think most programs are not used to handling disabled students. I've just noticed, even with mine, I'm like one of two students currently. They've had one other student, but it's very few. Then you also have the burden to always have to constantly ask about stuff, because your situation is different. They're like, oh. We haven't done it before, because most people follow this trajectory. But if you go off on this other trajectory, sometimes programs kind of make it like you shouldn't be going off this directory, but I guess we'll help you kind of thing. I'm just like, we should accept the grad school is not linear, and everyone has struggles. We just have an additional struggle than people's regular struggles.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And there might be policies around things, but a lot of times because they're not utilized, then folks don't encourage it. For instance, many grad students have access to- some of them, depending on their form of employment - to sick and vacation time. But who ever talks about sick and vacation time for grad students? No one that I know. Or taking a leave of absence.

Liu Miao

Oh, I actually didn't know that.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, depending on your source of employment, you may qualify for sick and vacation time. I've had folks that I've managed and supervised that I had it. I'm like, take it. Take all of it. Use it all up.

Liu Miao

Note to self, check on that. I did say, in regards to leaves of absence, when people talk about that, it's a very interesting topic, on their tone of how they talk about it. Because some people are really helpful, but then some people kind of look down that you're taking this leave. Then you have to go through so much paperwork. And then even though you're taking a leave of absence, I personally think it feels like you just got dumped by your grad program. I was very fortunate enough that I had enough savings to survive the time, but not everyone has savings.

Liu Miao

When you're on a leave of absence, you don't have your assistantship. You still have to live. I was able to have savings and my family did help some, so I was very fortunate in that. But not everyone has family. Not everyone has a ig enough savings to survive. Some medical leaves can be a year, eight months. Mine was about seven. I was very fortunate with the support of family and savings, but not everyone has that. I was looking into the policies, and there's not really much that helps students besides just giving them time off. I feel like there should be something financially that could help people, because it's like, yeah. You have the time off from school, but you can't really take care of herself. You can't pay for your doctor's visits or your medications.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Or if they cut you off from health care, too.

Liu Miao

Yes. I was fortunate enough that my health care wasn't through the school, but if your healthcare is through the school, that gets cut off because you're not a student. Then if you have any other student benefits, or something through subscriptions,you're not really a student anymore. I lost some students subscriptions because of that. It's kind of sad, because I feel like they could offer more support besides just giving you the time off. They kind of just like dump you and leave you there to figure out something for eight months and come back.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It's so unfortunate and can be so discouraging. I know, through my platform, I've had a lot of people reach out to me to let me know that they're suffering in silence, that they're dealing with something. With COVID, too, there's this huge rise in, there's this transition of a huge population who is suddenly for the first time dealing with chronic illness symptoms. There's a bunch of people struggling with long COVID. They don't know when it's going away, if it's ever going away. They're having to deal with this identity shift, all of a sudden, from being able bodied to all of a sudden becoming disabled.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I think this is true, that this is the thing about disability. Most of us don't want to come to terms with the fact that if we are lucky enough, if we're one of the lucky ones to live until old age, at some point, we're going to have to face some sort of disability. Because as you age, there's a higher chance of you struggling with some sort of medical issue. I feel like this is not something that if you're able bodied right now, that you can just ignore. Because at any point, something could happen. Some folks are born with disabilities, and some folks acquire them. I know, for me, I developed the chronic illness in grad school. Before that, I definitely took my health for granted. I wish I hadn't, but I was a morning person. I could go and go places and I had a lot of energy. I slept very well. I sleep terrible now.

Liu Miao

I can relate.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And it really is important. I think we do need to have these conversations. And it shouldn't just be among us, ourselves, folks who are part of the community. It needs to be expanded outside of that, because so many people, like I said, are struggling. They're suffering in silence. They haven't come to terms with this shift, and this transition in their life and in their bodies. And in their mental health too, because disability can affect your mental health. I struggle with depression and anxiety. I'll tell you, the days that my flare ups are the worst, they're also when my mental health is at its worst.

Liu Miao

Same. It's like both ends just wanted to crash at the same time. I feel that. It's interesting. If you just think about it, just general statistics of just grad school, not the general population, of mental health issues and other very dark struggling issues occur. It's a very high percentage of grad students struggling with it. You would think that if schools know that there's a very high percentage, that a lot of students are going to struggle with it, you would think they give us better health care. And then you add on having a disability or chronic illness of some sort, that number does go up because you already have issues and grad school makes those issues already worse. So basically, the whole population of grad students either will be getting worse, or will receive a diagnosis of some sort.

Liu Miao

Everyone's basically having some issue and if you talk to some people- I've talked to a variety of students- health care is not the very best in grad school, or it's really expensive, or it does not cover that much. If you just look at the numbers, there's so many people. There's such a high percentage of us having some sort of mental issue, wanting not to live. Grad school should not make someone not want to live. That's very bad, and I really feel like grad school should really provide these resources, given that these numbers are very high, just for the general population. Then you know from research, those with disabilities and chronic illness, especially if it involves severe chronic pain of some sort, there's a higher percentage for us to have these mental issues and just go down. It's like everyone's having mental issues or physical something. Grad schools, we need to have some health care or something. I mean, yes, they provide resources. But sometimes- like I even tried to get in for depression and anxiety, and the wait was like five months. I ended up having to- it took a whole semester. I contacted someone in the fall of 2021. I didn't get notice until January 2020- the end of January- that I could get counseling. But I ended up, that counseling didn't work. So I had to go outside. It took five months just to get to see a psychiatrist. We need more resources.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yeah, we do. And it's disheartening, because it is a microcosm of the larger issue, which is not just that academia is problematic, but that it's reflective of larger systemic issues in the United States too. And I'll be honest with you, so I moved- last year- my family from the US to Portugal. One big reason why I went through this whole process of immigrating to a new country is because of access to universal health care here in another country. In a lot of countries, healthcare is not tied to your source of employment. So even if you are unemployed, you have access to universal health care. Something happens to you, you will not go into into debt that is going to cost years or perhaps your life to get out of. No, the country provides that for you. Whereas in the United States, because it's linked to your source of employment- you're not a student, you no longer have health care. You're not employed, you no longer have health care. And if you're relying on public sources of health care, there's still a much higher chance that you go to the ER, you get this bill worth thousands. Now I understand why, as a child of immigrants, my parents were so afraid of taking us anywhere- to the doctor, to urgent care, to the ER. They told us, we would never go to the doctor unless we were dying. And it was true. They sheltered us so much, because they didn't want us to get hurt, because they didn't want us to go to a doctor.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

It's just this like, systemic issue as a whole. Now I'm like, oh. This conversation is getting really dark. But I also want to kind of flip the script too, and not just focus on the negative, because I think there's actually a lot that you gain from having a disability, from having a chronic illness, from having to learn how to advocate for yourself. I'll tell you the folks I know who are disabled, who are grad students, they plan in advance. They are so good at dealing with bureaucracy, as annoying as it is. I'm like, I would hire them, because I know that they've had to figure so much shit out that I can trust that they would figure anything out.

Liu Miao

Yes, I actually have some talking points about those, and why it's important to include disabled academics.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh, I love that.

Liu Miao

Of the major things I talk about is resiliency. And grad school, it's tough. It will chew you out and throw you out if you give up. But like both, just both grad school and disability, if you let it win, it will chew you out and throw you out. you gotta really work hard, even when you just want to cry and give up. Both require resiliency. I feel like that's not always a skill you can teach. It's just something- you just acquire it because you had to. You had no choice but to be resilient. It's very hard. But I feel like that's just a key factor that anyone in grad school needs, but disabled people just happen to have it because we had to do before getting into grad school.

Liu Miao

Then time management. Everyone talks about how time management is important in grad school, but they kind of forget you need time management in having a disability. You got doctor's appointments, you got taking medication or any other type of things, talking to insurance companies about why you're not getting what you need. You don't think about these skills that disabled people already have. It helps make us good grad students, because we already have those skills and we can transfer it to a different field. Because we always have to constantly learn how to figure out things. My last point is problem solving.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh my gosh.

Liu Miao

Grad school, either you're teaching, which you have to problem solve how to figure out students. Or you're in research, and you gotta problem solve or on how to fix the problem and execute your research project well. Disability is the same thing. You gotta problem solve with medical doctors, psychiatrists, professors, insurance.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Everything.

Liu Miao

You're constantly having to adjust. We need to include disabled academics, because they already have had to have these skills for so long. It's kind of second nature for us, because it's like, hey. We already do this in one area. We can just basically do it in a different area.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I'm glad that you mentioned that, I think that is so critical to see disability not just as this deficit lens, which I know can be the norm. That's why a lot of people are afraid to even use that word. It's like, oh, it's as if it's a bad word. But instead to see it as an asset. Just like you want diversity of race, ethnicity, class, gender- tying it back to what you mentioned earlier- you want disability to be one of those aspects of diversity. Because we bring so much to the table.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I would love for you to share- we're gonna get close to wrapping up- but any advice for students. They may be undergraduates or recent college graduates who want to apply to grad school, and who may be struggling with this whole conversation about being a disabled student. I get this question a lot. Should I mention it? Should I not mention it? How much do I share in my personal statement? Should I disclose? That, I always say it's a very personal decision. Although I have that thing that I lean more towards the side of sharing, because you want to make sure that you get support, access to resources, accommodations, all of that. You don't want to go somewhere where they're not going to be supportive with it. So anyway, any advice for students who are thinking about going to grad school and are concerned about how being disabled may kind of affect them in their grad school journey?

Liu Miao

I would say one of the biggest things for me is know your rights. Like my first semester, I was kind of nervous about asking for accommodations, even though I had the right to. So know your rights and utilize them, because there are rights for a reason. Even though it is very scary to be like, hey Professor. I need these accommodations. Legally, they have to give it to you, even though they may not like it. It's so hard. But just read what your rights are as a disabled student and know what they are, and then utilize it. Because if a professor tries to do something and kick you out, be like, hey. I have the right to be here. I met the requirements. You have the right for reasonable accommodations and things. So just know them.

Liu Miao

And you have to be bold, and be like, hey, I need these rights. It's so hard. That's the one thing I've had struggles with, and I've had to learn to be like, hey. I need this help, so it makes it even for me and the other people- it's an even playing field. For the most part, most professors are willing to give the accommodation, so it's more even. But even if you meet a professor who's like, I still don't like this accommodation, but I guess I'll give it to you. Just be like, hey, you know, I deserve to be here like everyone else. I just need a little accommodation, just to make it more fair for me. I think people view accommodation as an advantage, of like, oh, they're gonna get an A easier because they have an accommodation. But it's important to remind people, accommodation isn't so we get an A faster or something. It's so everyone's on the same playing field. It's more accurate to grade people, because it just makes it a little more even.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes. Even then, it might not even be a level playing field, but at least it gives you a little bit closer.

Liu Miao

It's a little closer. It's so hard to speak up, but you got to do it because grad school will just stomp all over you.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And it does get a little bit easier- still uncomfortable, but it does get easier over time. Or at least that's been my experience, is that it gets a little less scary. It's still not my favorite thing to do but, but you just kind of learn to figure out ways to best advocate for yourself and for others too.

Liu Miao

I feel like as disabled students, are just disabled people in general, one characteristic we have, we learn fairly quickly- you just got to stop caring what other people think.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Oh my gosh, yes.

Liu Miao

Obviously, you got to be a good person to others, but you got to just do the best you can do to succeed in life. Be a kind person, just do your own thing and do your best. But most people don't care what you're doing. If they care, you shouldn't care, because it's not their life. It's yours.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Yes, yes. Well, I want to thank you, Liu, for coming today. I also wanted to ask the last question, which is for folks who want to connect with you, who really enjoyed what you had to say and want to hear more, want to follow you. How can they reach you?

Liu Miao

The best way to reach me is through Instagram at @AWordWithLiuMiao. Instagram is the best way. I'm pretty active on there. My DMs are always open. I can chat through the Insta Stories.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I love it. Yeah, that's how we connected. I love everything that you put out. I'm going to make sure to add it to the show notes, and I want to thank you once again. I feel like I could just keep going on and on and on.

Liu Miao

Yeah, you're easy to talk to you. I'm like, I really want to have coffee with you.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Me too, because I legit want coffee. It's too late for me right now, but I love coffee.

Liu Miao

I do too. I had to start drinking decaf, because of a doctor. But that's so bad. But I love coffee and some really good authentic Mexican tacos. Even though they don't go together.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

You know what, I'm in a mixed family. Everything we eat and drink does not go together, but we make it work because we like it.

Liu Miao

Yes. Thank you so much. I love your content. I love learning what you have to say and just things. So thank you so much.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Thank you.