140: What is Classism in Academia and What To Do About It

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Welcome back everyone to the Grad School Femtoring Podcast. Today I have a solo episode on the topic of what is classism in academia and what to do about it. I think about class, classism, money, financial literacy, all of the time. But the thing that prompted me to want to address this topic in particular, and bring it up now, actually was a tweet. One of my friends retweeted something. And the initial tweet said this, quote, I am so lucky. I basically won the job market lottery by getting a tenure track job as I was finishing up my dissertation. And yet, I'm still working a retail job. So I can pay rent and save up for moving expenses. And I can't afford the doctoral regalia that I need for commencement. And, oh, my goodness, did I empathize with this person, not because I got a tenure track job because y'all know I did not. But because as I navigate in my own career, I recall getting into $14,000 of credit card debt, to move my family, from Los Angeles to Santa Barbara, for my first you know, quote, unquote, like salaried position out of grad school. And that sounds like a lot of money. 14k. In fact, my friend herself said that she too was, she said that she was broke for a whole year during her that year transitioning from the Ph. D to the tenure track job. And that she created a GoFundMe page, which was funny, because I created a GoFundMe page to try to offset costs of the credit card debt that I was incurring to break my lease to move to Santa Barbara on such short notice, knowing that I had asked for relocation support funds from my employer, and it was not something that they could provide.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And you know, similarly, I think for many of us, as we navigate our careers as working class, people as working class people of color, women of color, realizing that there's just so many costs that you incur professionally, that are forms of institutional classism. And so that's why I wanted to bring up the topic of classism, because I think it's important to be aware of how it plays a role in your experience in grad school, because if you're a first gen student of color, there's also a good chance that you're also a working class or poor student of color, or quote unquote, low income as some of us get labeled in university settings. So let's talk about it.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

What is classism? When I think of classism, I think of a form of prejudice, a form of discrimination, and in this case, it's on those that are of a different social class than others. And the way that it functions is that you're assigning someone a value based on their socio economics, class, or status. So the higher they are in the status, the higher their value, lower status, lower their value, and so on. And so if you are working class, if you are low income, if you are poor, you face more barriers. And so this is where this concept of institutional classism comes in when we're talking about academia and settings in higher education.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And now, what is institutional classism? According to the American Psychologist, their 2012 issue, institutional classism is the quote, "maintenance and reinforcement of low status by social institutions that present barriers to increase the difficulty of accessing resources." The key word here is the barriers that we experience. And this is what I want to highlight because these are the barriers that you may be experiencing over and over and over again as you navigate undergrad as you navigate grad school and as you navigate the early years in your career, sometimes not even just the early years it could be your entire career could be a while before you might be financially okay enough to no longer have these things be barriers for you.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

What are examples of institutional classism? And just know these things, I probably have related to, you probably can relate to if you yourself, are not middle class or wealthy. One is yeah, I think about a time that maybe you had some sort of professional interview, you had an interview for a job for a fellowship for some sort of great opportunity and internship and so on. And then having to purchase appropriate, whatever's deemed appropriate, you know, business casual or business professional clothing for that interview. This is a form of classism, because if you don't have the money to be able to afford the clothes, then that's going to be a barrier for you. And then it ties in with how professionalism the way that people define it. The expectations of professionalism in and of themselves can be considered classist and colonial, it's colonizing. In having to be expected to wear a certain type of clothing that may or may not be the clothing that makes you feel your best. I mean, in the past, whenever I've conducted interviews, I've always told folks wear what makes you feel your best. Instead of saying what I was told when I was in undergrad, which was wear button down shirt, wear slacks or a long skirt, it can't be too short, don't wear spaghetti strap, don't show too much cleavage, all those things. It's problematic. And we can make an argument for and against why you should and shouldn't do these things. Because yes, even though it's problematic, dressing in a certain way does change the way that people perceive you, which is unfortunate. But I'm just letting you know that I'm making you aware that that barrier of having to purchase a certain type of clothing to fit in in this environment. That is a form of institutional classism.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

There's also this other barrier that comes up over and over and over again, it's one of the things that I could hardly battle, I could hardly kind of advocate against even in my own role as a staff member, it was so hard to counter this. And this is the reimbursement processes in academia. And within academic bureaucracy, there's so much red tape in terms of how to make sure that you get funding for things that are academic expenses. So even if there are funding opportunities for you to do things like attend conferences, or conduct research, you're having to take on these expenses out of pocket, you're having to wait weeks, sometimes months to get that money back. And not everybody has the money upfront to pay for it. Not everybody has the credit available or even a credit card just to go there. Because I know a lot of students who were never taught about how to earn credit, and so they never opened up any credit cards, and so they don't have that as an option. So the reimbursement process, the whole like financial bureaucracy, in institutions of higher ed, it's, it's a huge barrier. It's incredibly difficult, I get really frustrated when I think about it, because it's supposed to be there to help you. It's supposed to be there to provide you with opportunities to still get the funding even if it's later. But again, like I said, not everybody can pay for things up front and wait for them to get reimbursed.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Now, another example of institutional classism is when you're invited to professional development opportunities that require that you spend money. Here I'm thinking about things like academic conferences, or formal dinners where you're highly encouraged to attend. But you're also required to pay a fee for admission into these things. You have to pay to be able to attend the conference, you have to pay for your own meal if you're attending a fancy dinner. This is another barrier.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Another example of classism in academia can be what I mentioned earlier about the tweet that prompted me to want to record on this topic. It's being asked to move to another city for a really great job or professional opportunity without providing you with relocation support funds to do so. It is incredibly expensive to move. You've gotta, if you're breaking a lease, you might have fees there. If you are moving into a new place you have to pay for a security deposit, you've got to pay for your first month, sometimes first month and last month of rent. And then the whole process of moving all of your things over, transportation costs, moving your items, if you hire movers, all that stuff, that is money, that is very expensive.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And then there's also been so many instances where you're encouraged to pursue professional development opportunities, when you already are employed when you already have a job, but you're not provided with the funding for it. So they say, "Oh, you want to work on your professional development, you want to take this certification, we're gonna take this course, you know, we want to support you, but we don't have the funding for it." So then you got to pay for that out of pocket. This is incredibly frustrating, because policies are not centralized across the board. So you might have folks in the same staff positions in the same faculty positions. And even in the same universities and departments but just because one person asks and the other one doesn't, then one person gets it and the other one doesn't, or just because one person knows that this is even resource available, they get access to it, it's not presented to everybody equally.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And I've witnessed how some of my own clients have been able to hire me because they are employees, and they have access to professional development funding, and they reached out to their supervisor, and they advocated for themselves to get academic coaching. And that's how they're able to pay for, for working with me, which is wonderful. And I wish that everybody had access to this type of professional development funds. And this is just a hint hint to if you are working somewhere, don't hesitate to ask if there are opportunities for professional development or professional development funding for your for you to seek out your own opportunities, that would be great for you. But it's just a reminder that again, the the squeaky wheel gets the oil or whatever that phrase is. It's unfortunate that you have to be the one to constantly be reaching out and researching and talking to people to find out what is available to you. And if you don't do that, then you won't get access to this, when in actuality it should be accessible to everyone. And there shouldn't be so many cost barriers for these opportunities.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Okay, so we just covered a couple of examples of institutional classism. Now I want to talk about some more grad school specific instances, or examples of class differences across cohorts or across peers or mates in grad school. I mean, it technically could apply in undergrad as well, actually. The I have some very specific examples of being an undergrad and realizing "oh, wow," I don't think I realized that I was working class when I was in K through 12 because most of my peers, we were all we were all either poor or working class and the divide, the difference wasn't as wide, there wasn't as wide of a gap. In college. I still remember the first day and I find mentioned the story before because it's one of the few that actually remember, I have a really bad memory.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

But I remember the first day of my freshman summer program, my mom and my brother dropped me off and they couldn't stay. And I remember having this little yellow cart with all of my stuff and arriving into my dorm and having a roommate and her name was Priya. And and I was there by herself. She was there with her mom, her dad and her older brother, and they were helping her unpack and get all her stuff, you know, into the dorm on her side of the room. And then asking me, "Where are your parents? Where's your family" I'm like, "They had to work." And then asking me "so what what do your parents do? What is your mom do? What is your dad do and me?" Like, after they introduced themselves saying I'm a lawyer, I'm a doctor. I'm a blah, blah, blah, oh, my older brother graduated from UCLA. I'm like, oh, how nice, she has a brother who has gone through this before who's helping her out? And then for me to respond, "My mom sells religious articles. My dad's dead." But again, I could I could just sense that the class difference between her family and my family.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

The same in my classes. A big trigger for me was whenever we would get close to any breaks, whether it was spring break or summer break and having random classmates and just overhearing them ask each other, "What are you going to do for spring break? Where are you gonna go for spring break?" and hearing things like, "Oh, I'm going sailing, or oh, I'm going to Tahiti, or oh, I'm going to blah, blah, blah," places I've never even heard and thinking, "Wait, what, so you don't go back home to help your parents? like you don't go back home to take care of your siblings? you don't go back home, to work?" So these are all instances in my undergrad experience, where I realize "oh, wow, like there are major class differences between myself and my peers."

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And that continued on in grad school. So in grad school, here are some examples that you may notice in your experience of class differences between yourself and other cohort mates. Perhaps you realize that there are certain colleagues of yours who have family members who are supporting them financially or helping them in some way financially, this could be a spouse, this could be a parent. I knew of grad students whose parents paid for their housing, or whose parents actually bought them a home and then they used that home and rented it to their roommates. And then all of a sudden, their roommates were paying for their mortgage. So they were living, rent free in their own home, and accumulating wealth by having the roommates pay their mortgage. That kind of stuff blew my mind. It still kind of blows my mind a little just to know the level of wealth that some folks have.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Another example is noticing that some colleagues may be able to afford attending multiple conferences out of pocket without necessarily needing to apply to travel grants. Again, you know, if you're like me, I could only afford one major conference at, yeah, one major conference per year, because that's what I got funding for. And that's not the case for everyone. You might notice some folks and you're like, "How in the world, are they affording it?" They're attending conference after conference after conference, and no one is talking about the elephant in the room, which is, "how in the world do you afford this?" And this is because, you know, some folks, they have savings, they have a trust, they have passive income, they have spouses, they have parents, again, they have other sources of income that subsidize their time in grad school, because no one is making a good living in grad school alone. Trust me, grad school stipends are not enough.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Another example, noticing that there are some folks who don't need to take on extra jobs or gigs or side hustles, or part time jobs to be able to make ends meet. Some folks can go to grad school and focus solely on their research. And that's great for them. But that's not necessarily the case for everyone.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And then here, just one more example, just to really reel it in. It is noticing colleagues who can afford to move to different locations for fellowships, for postdocs for jobs without seeming to need to take on any debt. And again, keyword seeming, because some folks are struggling financially and not open about it. And so you'll never really know unless we talk about it, we need to destigmatize class differences in academia.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

So yeah, I just, I feel like classism, I openly talk a lot about racism and sexism. And I think that the big elephant in a lot of rooms is also classism. We need to talk about it because you cannot work on the under the assumption that someone who looks like you, has the same class as you, or has the same access and financial means as you. That's not necessarily the case. And there are major differences between folks who have enough to survive and thrive and those who are barely making it, those who are living beyond their means who are in the negative or who don't have enough money to meet their basic needs, who don't have enough money, for food or for shelter. So we have to be on the lookout for that. And if we do have access to financial privileges, we got to use them in favor of supporting others.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

So another thing I wanted to mention when it comes to classism, and academia and class differences and academic spaces is that you should not assume that just because someone is employed at a university just because they are a staff member or a professor, that they are doing okay financially. There are a lot of staff members and faculty who are struggling to, in fact, there are struggling staff members and faculty who are currently on their way out there exiting out of academia. How do I know this because I am one of multiple admin members for a Facebook group that is very popular among academics who are leaving academia. And they share a lot of really open, transparent, traumatizing stories about their time in academia, and about the lack of financial support that they're receiving. And that for many of them, they're leaving due to issues of salary compression, they're leaving due to a lack of competitive salaries, they're leaving due to a lack of pay raise or pay raise that doesn't even make up for increases in inflation costs.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And so this is just reflective of obviously the larger trend of the great resignation, which I myself am part of. I left my job too, for some of those reasons as well. So just know, again, you can't assume that based on how someone looks and appears and their title that they're doing okay, financially, or that their class is different than yours, necessarily. So now that you are aware of classism, of institutional classism, examples of how it functions in higher ed, what are we supposed to do about it? What are we supposed to do about this elephant in the room? Here are some suggestions of what you can do to learn more and start to take action.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

The first thing I want to say is to stay informed. And I'm going to share something I know it might be controversial to share this, and I think I've mentioned that, and I've mentioned this as a suggestion in previous episodes, but I'm not sure how recently I've done this. But I want to remind you that you can look up your professors salaries and that it's okay to do that you can also look up staff salaries. I am aware that you know, there's the University of California annual wage compensation website. The same goes for the California State University compensation website. I'm not sure about public institutions and other states. But this is just two examples that I personally am aware of. It is okay to look up salaries I know might feel a little uncomfortable. But why am I asking you to do this this way, you can notice the differences in titles, especially Professor titles, is this person, an Adjunct a Lecturer and Assistant Professor and Associate or Tenured? Or Full Professor. If folks hold the same title, notice the differences in salary. And here it's it's tough to look this up, because you'll notice differences, substantial differences based on race and gender. And it's useful to understand that and actually, witness for yourself actually see the numbers yourself about the disparities in salaries within higher ed, why is it useful to know this? Because then, these are some of the issues that you might face in your own career. If you are a person of color, if you are a woman of color, you might face issues of inequitable salaries of not being paid appropriately, according to the your worth and the worth of the skill set and knowledge that you have. Again, all of this is just to make you aware to stay informed. Again, you never know based on like I said, someone's title or someone's how someone looks or your own impressions of them. You might never know how much they make someone who you had no idea like, "wow, they're making a lot more than I thought" or "wow, they're making a lot less than I thought."

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

I remember looking up one of my committee members salaries and then realizing he made almost three times as much as all the other professors that I worked with. And up to that point, I felt really bad whenever I met with this professor and they offered to buy me a beverage not even lunch but like oh, let me get you a soda. And then "Oh no, it's okay. I got it." Once I found out how much he made. I was like, "Go ahead. Buy me that and more." Because if you make two or three times as much as the other professors, that means he is making 10 times as much as I was as a grad student. It was wild, it blew my mind. So stay informed, y'all it will, it will shed some light on a lot of things when you find out how much people make.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Now the next thing I want to recommend is to make sure that you're not comparing yourself and your progress to someone else in your program to someone else in your field to someone else in a similar trajectory as you because again, you have no idea about their financial and economic circumstances, for better or for worse than mu. Some folks have more help. Some folks have less help some for some more support, some have less, a lot of people get support from family members from loved ones. And a lot of people don't get support and don't disclose it for fear and because of shame. The lot of people who are struggling with really high amounts of debt, whether it's credit card debt, student debt to make ends meet, and again, not talking about it enough because of the shame. Like I said earlier, no one's making a decent living as a grad student, so how are they doing it? Are they, do they have extra part time jobs, do they have savings, or do they have someone helping them? You never know. Just focus on yourself, don't compare your experience to someone else. Because unless you know them personally, and they shared their whole lives with you, you really never know.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Next suggestion for what to do about classism in academia is to become an ally to be a coconspirator. If you are in a position of power. Then mentor someone else. Sponsor someone else. Mention someone else's name in rooms that they're not at open the doors of those rooms for those people. If you have the capacity donate, donate to friends, donate to people, you may know donate to organizations that aligned with your values. Provide access to more resources. We all can play a role in making a difference for, especially for folks who might not have the same resources as us.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Another thing is to acknowledge the class implications of any of your decisions. Again, this is tough, because, you know, sometimes we work under the assumption that the friends that we make have similar financial situations as us but that's not always true. Sometimes even a long similar class divides, there might be someone doing a little bit better, or having access to a little bit more means than than someone else. So if you're in charge of organizing an event, for instance, remind yourself how are you making it accessible to people class across class differences? If you're inviting people to events, are you providing a free or low cost option? Or are you providing the opportunity to pay for others, I always appreciate it if I had a friend who made more money than me. And if they invited me to something and offered to pay, and it was okay, if again, there was that transparency, they knew that they made more money than me. And there was no obligation of like, I am indebted to this person, because they wanted my company.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And then along the same lines, another recommendation is to just be more open to talking about money to having money conversations with others. People will know if you're struggling, if you don't share. I have benefited a lot from talking about money with my own friends from disclosing my own debt with my friends, with disclosing my salary among my own friends. There's some friends who are open and comfortable to talk about it and others who aren't. And I try to be respectful of people and their comfort levels. But if and when there's an opportunity presented where I can talk more about money, I do it because one, I'm still learning to I want to make sure I teach others what I've learned if they're open to it if they ask me for advice or help or support. So talking about money, helps. It can be uncomfortable, but it can also make a big difference.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Another thing I want to suggest and again, take this with a grain of salt because I know sometimes if we have too many differences that can be hard to sustain relationships. But if you're open to it, make friends across class divides. I remember making a friend in grad school and early on I realized "oh wow, like we come from very different. class backgrounds" This person, like can afford to travel this person, just their expectations and their lifestyle and the fact that they didn't think twice when they went out and ate and all these things. I had to be very, very open and honest and clear and call this person out when they were being classist. And it was a little bit awkward, uncomfortable, we did have disagreements. But you know what, she learned a lot from it, I learned a lot from it. And she constantly reminded me that she was grateful of me kind of bringing up instances that maybe I disagreed with her or I noticed, hey, this is not, you know, accessible, or this is not cool. Or this what you that remark you made sounds classist. So if you're open to it, and then again, it's not just a learning opportunity for them, it's also a learning opportunity for you because I realized, wow, like people are living their lifestyles under very different ways. And there are different ways of making ends meet. And there are different ways of accumulating a high salary and wealth. And you don't necessarily have to have a high education, like you don't have to have a bunch of credentials or degrees to make a lot of money. So that opened up a lot, to me realizing, wow, there's a whole world out there, outside of my class, and what I can afford right now.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

And then one other thing I wanted to mention, and I can't help but mention this, because of my own experience moving abroad is, yes, right now you are you might be in grad school, you might be an undergrad, you might be in grad school, you might be on your way out of grad school, starting your career. But just be mindful and be aware of not only the class differences in your work setting or class differences in your community, or in your state or even in your country, but thinking about class differences in a global context. You might be working class here. But what happens if you travel to another country? What happens if you move to another country and and that country has a lower salary.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

Here in Portugal, and don't quote me on this, because I don't have the exact numbers. But I believe the average salary is 1000 euros or something like that. And, again, I keep saying graduate students don't make a lot of money. But a graduate students salary in Portugal, especially not in the big cities, because it can get more pricey here, but especially in other parts of the country that aren't the biggest cities, you are considered middle class. Here, you have financial means to do a lot of things it's a very different context. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, you have shifted classes merely by traveling by moving by your presence in another country in another setting. And what you do, may be helping or hurting a local economy and a local community. And so we have to be very, very aware. And I am superduper aware of it. And I don't think a lot of the folks that I have met, who have moved here from other countries aren't necessarily aware of the impact that they're making. If they are, say, coming in as investors, for instance, all of a sudden, they're not just bringing in their income, but they're also making income off of living here. And I have a lot of mixed feelings about that. Maybe it's because I myself am not an investor. And that's not necessarily the reason why I moved here. But I think it's important to be aware of class differences in any settings that you are a part of, because you know, there are class differences in your work setting and your professional setting.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

There are also class differences in your own families. That's why so many of us who are first gen have these financial responsibilities of having to support our families. And then what happens when we get our jobs are really good jobs that we've been working our butts off for. And all of a sudden you're having to plan and prepare for your own retirement like what are you going to do when you can no longer work? What are you going to do when your parents can no longer work? What are you going to do when you're tias and tios and extended family, depending on your family and cultural kind of differences, there might be expectations to continue to support not just your immediate but also your extended family.

Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu

So again, we need to keep talking about money. We need to keep talking about class, we need to keep talking about classed differences, and do what we can about it. In spaces where we are the ones who hold more privilege, we need to use our privilege in service of others. In spaces where we have less privilege then, you know, being open to having these conversations and to teaching others and to asking for help when you need it. That's it for today's episode. I hope that you found it helpful. And I will talk to you all next time.