121: Managing Pandemic-Related Grad App Complications with Shania Montúfar

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome back, everyone to the Grad School Femtoring podcast. Today I have another wonderful guest who is here to talk to us about managing pandemic related grad app complications. So this is a really interesting topic. I'm really excited to hear from our guest. Our guests is Shania Montufar, who is a senior sociology student and Ronald McNair Scholar. That's how we know each other at Truman State University, which is actually located in northeast Missouri.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

She was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma and she is a child of Ecuadorian immigrants. Her research interests lie in the intersection of migration, gender, sexuality, and Latin American Studies. She's also conducted research at Truman State University, at the University of Michigan and at women employed, which is a Chicago based nonprofit that centers women's laborers rights, women's labor rights, yes. She serves as the as the first Latina to be president of her university student government. Wow, congratulations. Welcome to the podcast, Shania!

Shania Montufar

Thank you. Thank you, Yvette. Thank you for having me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, I'm happy to have you happy to connect with you. Again, I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about your background. So your personal background as well as your educational trajectory thus far.

Shania Montufar

Yeah. So I think that you gave a good summary. But I've been in the Midwest and the rural Midwest for most of my life. So I started off in Oklahoma, and then moved to Missouri as a high as a middle schooler in high school, I wasn't super prepared to go to college, I only applied to one school, the school that I go to now. So I stumbled into the McNair program, mostly because they were recruiting a lot. And that's when I sort of started thinking about grad school as an option. It really, really was not on my radar at all. And even when I was joining the program, I was still trying to figure out if I wanted to do a master's program, or if I felt like a PhD program made more sense. But eventually I got more involved in research. So I'm fortunate that part of the course progression, my major includes a research project. So that was one of my first experiences and just doing the process. And then I did some our use, unfortunately, one of mine was cancelled, which because of the pandemic, so maybe we circle back to that when we talk. Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Because you had another opportunity, right? So which one was like the first one that didn't work out?

Shania Montufar

So my sophomore year, I was accepted into UT Austin's research, undergraduates. Yeah, a lot of them were canceled that year, fortunately, I was able to work out an internship with women employed. So you know, things worked out, but it was, you know, that would have given me a little bit more sort of understanding of my own interest and research and things like that. So, but you know, it worked out and I figured out that I really enjoyed doing research. Um, so at this point, I've applied to programs. So I spent the last semester applying to around 10 programs, and I'm slowly starting to hear back, which is exciting and scary. And all of those things. So yeah, that's kind of where I am.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Okay, so that's great, because it's a perfect transition to get us to talking about the topic, which is hurdles, and specifically pandemic related hurdles. And it's, you know, it's, it's something that I felt, you know, 2020. Oh, it's only going to be a couple of months. And then oh, the next cohort is going to be fine. Oh, and then the next year, they'll be okay. And now it's what over two years? So what's going on for you now, or what came up for you in the fall as you were applying? What are some of those hurdles?

Shania Montufar

So as I was thinking of maybe some things to say, here, I realized that, you know, obviously, there are complications with our programs, even taking applicants, GRE requirements changing, but there are so many other things beyond that. So even when I just mentioned my REU, a lot of programs didn't take students for our use, you know, in the past, like two or three years, some fully cancelled theirs and moved online. So starting my sophomore year, all of my research prep experiences have been changed maybe in a way that they they wouldn't have. So that means that I didn't get the opportunity to go to Austin or to any other program that I would have gone to that year, which, you know, is important. You know, when I went to Michigan, you get to meet people in the department. You get to know standards and applications and things like that. So I think a lot of people didn't get that opportunity which you know, changes your application process. But beyond that for more specific things, when I was looking at programs my junior year, a lot of programs weren't taking applicants.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm glad you mentioned that, yes.

Shania Montufar

It scary to me at the time, because, you know, I didn't end up reaching out individually to programs, but it felt so up in the air. So definitely the whole process around that was sort of like our programs, taking applicants and in some ways would make sense that they didn't, so they can better support their current students will the requirements changing, and some of them did. So the other sort of big theme is that GRE changes were happening a lot during the pandemic. So I don't remember the exact number. But I think out of my 10 programs, only three required that I submit GRE scores.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I have a quick follow up on the two things that you mentioned. So the first one was finding out that some programs weren't accepting students. Was this clearly indicated on websites? Or was it something that you had to contact them to ask if they were accepting students?

Shania Montufar

You know, most, most of those websites weren't updated until maybe August or September? Because it feels that we are not taking applicants? And then eventually, I would look at the website, and it would say.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, typically September's the time that most most places are to update their sites. Yeah.

Shania Montufar

So I really was just looking there. I didn't start working really intensively on my applications until around that time anyway. But it was, you know, worrying, in a larger sense. It was like, I don't know, I don't know.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Was that the same that also the case for the GRE requirements? Was that something that you found on the website, you know, in September or something, you have to contact them directly to ask them? Are you accepting it? Is it is it optional?

Shania Montufar

They were fairly transparent. On the website. Yes, yes. But interesting. What I thought was interesting is that you know, so there's a, there's a whole separate conversation about GRE being used for graduate school applications at all. A lot of those programs, specifically mentioned we are, we are not taking grad school. We're not taking GRE scores because of the pandemic. So I Oh, I'm wondering, you know, will those come back next year or the year after?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Now, that's a big conversation that programs are having the directors, administrators, the committee members and admissions folks are having nationwide. Yeah, it's really hard to say. But the trend, it does seem that the trend is that more and more programs are are eliminating it. It's just unfortunate that it's not a centralized thing is that like, you can say, okay, the GRE is no longer a requirement across the board all universities in the US. That's the part that's frustrating. Because to be frank, it's it shouldn't be a requirement. It's an it's, it's yet another hurdle. Yeah.

Shania Montufar

Right. So because two or three of my programs wanted those scores, I did end up taking the GRE. I took it two times, both online. So I did at home GRE test, which I like, gosh, I never took it in person. So I really don't know how it compares. But it was kind of a weird experience in and of itself.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Always a weird experience, even in person. Oh, no. So what hurdles came up for you with the GRE? I'm assuming there might have been something for the test itself. Right.

Shania Montufar

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's hard to find, they pretty much want you to be at a room with a table with nothing on it, nothing around it. And like I was at my parents house when I took the test over the summer. And that's not really we don't really have a space like that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

They asked to see your entire room.

Shania Montufar

Yes. And it wasn't there. I was at a desk and they wanted me to be a drawers and I had to empty all the drawers. It was just it was a lot. And then it was like, you know, when you're at home, sometimes people are loud. So they were doing maintenance on my house that day. And so in the middle, someone was like hammering outside of my bedroom was like, Oh, no. But yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Do you think there was something you could have done? To prepare if you had known about about them, checking your room or whatever other requirements were? Yeah.

Shania Montufar

Yeah, I ended up. So I wouldn't have done it at my house. But then it's also I don't know if I have a great idea of what other spaces could be good for that. I know that at my university, at least you can rent out study bubbles in the libraries. So something like that might have worked better. To be honest, though, even ours, you can only rent out for like an hour and a half at a time. So I'm not sure what I would have done. I think that for my second exam, I ended up taking it at home. But I also asked my McNair program to use an office in they have a building and my university. So I think that would have worked well too. I just remembered as I was saying that but the second time I took my GRE I, my roommate came back from break and walked in in the middle of things. Which is like a huge no no. Like you might have to, like, completely forfeit the exam. Yeah, both times were very stressful. Yeah. Because there were just some things that I couldn't control. There was no way. But yeah, I guess if I were to do it again, I would probably take the exam in the firehouse, which at Truman is where the McNair offices are located in like, the basement or something.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Somewhere, yeah. And uninterrupted playing. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. And I know, like you said, it's not ideal for a lot of folks.

Shania Montufar

It's not easy. That's maybe I don't even you know, there's still lots of people that come in and out of those offices, too. So the one upside I will say about the online test is that you can take it really whenever. So you can take it at like 5am, or 11pm, you can take it at these sort of bizarre hours, which didn't work well. For me, I ended up taking mine really, really late one time and really, really early the other time. So that flexibility was sort of nice. But yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know what, no matter what I think across the board, most people do not have a positive experience with taking the GRE. I don't know a single person who said they enjoyed it. I always tell people that it's cursed. Because I've heard some, some horror stories. My car broke down on the way there or I didn't, I didn't realize that my California ID was expired. Or I you know, I didn't know that I needed a whiteboard. And so I didn't have anything to use for notes, or I don't know, just random stuff like that, where it's just out of your control, or you just didn't know. Yeah. What else came up for you? So this this fall you? I'm assuming predominantly applied to PhD programs? And what other types of hurdles or or in what ways did the the pandemic impact your application process?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Because you said it started out with impacting your research. So from the beginning, from your sophomore year. And that's not just true for you. That's true for everyone. So my students have had to be creative, especially folks I know, in STEM fields didn't have access to labs, having to be really creative with how how do you do research when you don't have access to certain things or data and things like that? So from the beginning, you've had to manage these obstacles. And now the fourth quarter, you're applying what came up for you? What else?

Shania Montufar

One quick note about research one last time, my first project that I did, as part of my sociology, course, progression, it was an easy project. And that was fully online, it was fully on Zoom. So yeah, starting from my very first research experience, it's always sort of thing.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You probably maybe didn't imagine that your interviews would be on Zoom. Yeah, yeah. And that's like, a good and a bad thing. You know, like, it's, it's great, because it's so much more accessible. But it's bad because you you're missing out on that live kind of in person connection. Yeah.

Shania Montufar

I'd say that. Another big challenge is that as part of the McNair program, I would generally be funded to go on visits. So obviously, essentially impossible. And a lot of cases.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's gonna make it that's there's a future challenge there too. Because as hopefully everything goes, well, you get, you know, more than one acceptance, if you're in that position where you have to decide it can be challenging to make a decision without physically being able to go.

Shania Montufar

Exactly. And, you know, outside of just myself. So actively in the application process, our program would generally take a group of students to take a charter bus to we were going to Indiana, sort of the week that our classes moved online. So I think that there are obviously lots of generations of students that aren't getting to go to different campuses to get an idea of what programs they like, what they don't like about programs. So yeah, it just puts you in a harder place once it's time to decide what programs you want to apply to. And then once you get in sort of where you want to go. So yeah, I've gotten accepted into a few programs now and I'm starting to get information about visit days. And yes, they're all online,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Congratulations, by the way.

Shania Montufar

And then there were open houses and things when I was in the application process. All those have been online, which at this point, that is a part of my universe, so that hasn't felt super weird. In some ways. It is nice to not have to worry about travel or We're taking off classes, because sometimes those visit days would be, you know, it would work out in a way where I could still go to class the same day and then do my visit, which is nice, which is nice. I'd say that one thing that I, I've tried to learn about programs without being on the campuses, and one of the most helpful things that I did in that sense was to meet with a lot of students, once, which, you know, I don't know if that would have been as easy before. But that's definitely been something that's been really successful so far. And I've gotten a lot of really good responses from different grad students at different programs, we have a quick 15, 20 minute conversation on Zoom, and then you know, that helps me better understand the program. So that's one of the things I've been doing to try to get a feel for a campus or a department when I'm unable to go. But you know, there's still a lot of questions. I guess, for me,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's really important, though, the aspect of reaching out to grad students and talking to more than one, two, because, you know, everybody has a different experience, since they will give you the real, honest truth about a program, they will tell you if you know, it's, if it's a great environment, if it's a toxic environment, if there's someone you really have to work with, if there's someone you want to stay away from, and just in general, their experience and living their healthcare, their housing, their funding, they're all the things that you might not necessarily feel comfortable asking a potential adviser, that's great that you're doing that that's going to help you a lot. They're your eyes and ears since you can't physically be there.

Shania Montufar

Exactly. I think I've just been getting on those conversations a lot more than I might have if I was able to go there.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And having to ask a lot more questions, since you can't kind of determine things on your own. Right.

Shania Montufar

I've been asking a lot about area too. So where do grad students don't really live in the area? Yeah, just trying to, like.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Is it a commuter school or not? And you know, what's transportation like cost of living here? I can imagine. Yeah, exactly.

Shania Montufar

So yep. Just having to be creative.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I'm wondering now, since you've gone through the process, and you've done it rather successfully, you've already started to hear back, which is wonderful. What advice would you give to students, there are some folks who are currently applying to their stall, few masters programs that are coming up, other deadlines are coming up, or those that are actually doing their prep work for applying for doctoral programs in the fall. You know, what kind of advice would you give them? Since they're in a similar circumstance with same kind of pandemic related issues?

Shania Montufar

Yeah, I mean, I guess one of the maybe more intuitive things, but something that was hard for me was to reach out to programs when things are big. And especially if you feel like things are changing. I've gotten good, pretty good responses from. Go ahead.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was gonna say, so when you say reach out to programs that people ask me this all the time. But who did you in particular reach out to? Did you reach out to the staff person? Did you reach out to the grad students do reach out to the chair, the professor's?

Shania Montufar

The first place that I generally reached out to if it were, especially what requirements for the application was generally the I don't remember what it's called.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Their grad advisor?

Shania Montufar

They have different names sometimes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Sometimes a staff member office person? Yeah.

Shania Montufar

Or if there's a professor, or if there's a professor who is like, the advisor for the program for admissions that year. And sometimes some schools seem like they have a whole graduate, they have staff or their graduate sort of programs. So it depends, but generally a staff person and staff Yes. And I asked them, if they have any suggestions for other people to connect with. Sometimes they, they wouldn't give me any really much hope. They would say, well, you're open to reach out to faculty or students, and then some people would be very structured and reach out to those people for me, and honestly, you know, sometimes that, you know, maybe think about what the supports look like in the program. So that was good to know. So I guess one just reaching out to people, which is a hard part of the process. And that's something that I'm McNair, and I do peer mentoring. And it seems like a lot of students have some hesitations with doing that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. There's a lot of nerves, imposter syndrome. Just you know, that that fear of rejection. Yeah.

Shania Montufar

Yeah. And I think that that's something that's challenging, too. If you're wanting to reach out to students and faculty, you obviously always have that feeling of, you know, do they want to talk to me, do they have the time and you know, why not ask. And sometimes they don't want the time and I got that response a lot, I guess. So, you know, for clarity. Sometimes people told me no, I'm sorry, you can't do this, or reach back around in a month or so. And you know, that's perfectly fine. I would maybe Try a different student or something else, or just wait and reach back out to them in a month or so.

Shania Montufar

But yeah, so the first piece of advice, I guess, is to always reach out to committee use to the faculty in a given graduate program, if there's anything that's confusing, and there will be things that are confusing as we like, you know, navigate pandemic changes with GRE or different requirements. The other thing is, is just depending a lot on people in that community, which, you know, is something I talked about earlier, too, but that was probably the most helpful part of the entire process was the conversation that I had with post grad students. Yeah. Like you said, you're kind of trusting them to be eyes and ears and sort of idea of what it's like to be in that community. So I, yeah, that's one thing. I've been telling a lot of students, that was really helpful for me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Another thing I'm wondering is how you navigated the challenge of certain programs, saying that they weren't admitting students. If it was already on your list? Did you try to replace those programs? Did you apply to fewer programs than you intended? Because I, I have worked with students who decided to wait another year and apply the following cycle, because they, they felt as if there weren't enough programs for them to apply to this year?

Shania Montufar

I think it's fair. And the thing is, I feel like as I get a better idea of my research interest in the type of community that I want to pee in, I don't want to apply to programs just to see like, I want to feel really, really confident in the community of a program that will have the support there. So no, I didn't really replace schools once, it seemed like they didn't, they weren't accepting students, or it wasn't a good fit, I was sort of like, I'm only applying to places that I feel confident in, which does make me feel a lot better at this point. You know, I'm only looking at offers that I feel good about.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Anything else you think that helped you with? With preparing for the process of applying and with actually getting it done? Because it can feel like such a big management type project? It's project management, you know, because you've got so many things, so many deadlines, some of them overlapping? So what did you find, you know, help helpful in kind of staying organized and just staying on top of your deadlines?

Shania Montufar

I will admit, like, first and foremost that being in the McNair Program helped pace me in ways that I, you know, I would, I would have had to be so much more intentional. So at my university there is we did have a course and then a summer program to help prep starting sophomore junior year. So just thinking about my applications early on, definitely helped me applying to REUs so research experience for undergraduates definitely helped I had some of those materials already built up for two years.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's why I tell people I'm like keep applying, apply to summer programs, apply to scholarships and fellowships, because some of that content you can recycle and update.

Shania Montufar

You absolutely can. And it was honestly, it was interesting to see, you know, what did sophomore year me think, what was my personal statement, then? How did that change what parts of that like are still really important to me, it was interesting to see my values sort of shift and then bringing those back in to my new personal statement. So I'd say you know, starting early, you know, it's hard advice, because it's hard to get yourself to do those things early. But having applied to those are us and thought about my personal statements early on, it made the process a lot easier. The other thing and this is also something that I get through McNair is just having other people in my community that are also applying to programs.

Shania Montufar

So I'm really fortunate that I have a really great cohort and McNair and we would meet in the their house or talk to each other. I have my friend Trey lives in the same dorm as me. And we would just check in at the end of the day how our application is going. There are some things that are a little bit newer that some of my professors weren't familiar with yet. So things like the diversity statement, trying to compare how we navigate and things like that, where it seemed like that wasn't a part of the application process, when some of our courts were applying. Yeah, just having people in that process with you can be really helpful.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm surprised that the diversity statement was new for them. Because I felt like I've seen it for a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's really helpful advice for the listeners. I'm wondering if there's anything else that you wanted to share about your experience applying to grad school thus far you experience navigating undergraduate research, or anything else that might be helpful to students who are peers along similar path as you? Yeah. Oh, that's tough. Now It's fine, we can have you. Or we can also ask you, for folks who resonated with what you said who want to connect want to be in touch. How can they reach you? Is there a way for them to reach you?

Shania Montufar

Yeah, yeah, let me think of what the easiest way is. Could you put my contact info in like the show notes? Yes, definitely. Yeah. That works. And then, if you look me up, I'm on LinkedIn. And other places too.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Shania Montufar, look her up on LinkedIn. And I'll put it in the show notes as well.

Shania Montufar

I do. I think I have one more piece, maybe a broad advice that, you know, is related to the pandemic, but just more generally, applying to things this is about imposter syndrome.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I actually have one follow up question just because I met you before and I just had this really this this particular impression of you. And as far as questions, okay.

Shania Montufar

But what I was gonna say is, I definitely was counting myself out of applications really early on. So whether it was things like, are you applying my sophomore year, especially, I was like, I don't think I'm competitive for this. There are people who are applying to this, their junior year they go to are ones that are doing this. And I, you know, got into a program, which was really good for me at the time, I didn't get accepted into a lot of programs, but like, even starting to write those applications, then ended up translating into getting into more programs the next year, and then applying to programs now for the PhD. So, you know, sometimes this is, you know, obviously an issue for McNair folks, for other marginalized folks applying to programs, counting yourself out of things. It's very easy to, but I think applying to things early, even if you feel like you're not fully there, you will be eventually you have to start to start to get that experience. So yeah, maybe just a slight note about impostor syndrome. But yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I like that. I really liked that. And I. So this is not the question I wanted to ask. But just in light of you talking about summer programs, one thing that I tell students and folks that I work with is that it's actually really hard to get into summer programs, I would even claim that it might be harder to get into summer programs than grad care programs because there are fewer folks doing summer work and accepting students. And they are very, very competitive. There are only certain number of slots every summer. And so yes, I'm really glad that you're saying to remind people to apply to summer programs that you never know, don't count yourself out. And if you get in great if you don't, don't take it personally, it's it really doesn't indicate whether or not you're gonna get into grad school, if you got into a summer program.

Shania Montufar

And the process is important to the process, at least as important you start to know what it feels like to manage a project that big.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And I'm surprised to hear you say that you were questioning yourself because I have this really positive impression of you from having met you before you just seem so on top of. And I wanted to ask you just like as maybe this can be the final question is, how have you sustained motivation, if we're talking about pandemic related issues, we're talking about this ongoing thing that's part of our everyday lives, that makes life a lot harder for us. And a lot of students have struggled with isolation, and lack of motivation. And you're you've come this far, so I would love for you to share what has kept you going.

Shania Montufar

That's definitely one of the things I was thinking of early on in our conversation, too. It's like there are things that affect my application process. But then there are also things about life, right, that are just challenging, obviously translate into what I want to do after I graduate. So I don't know, I think I'm still figuring that part out too. But, you know, maybe two things, and one comes back to the community aspect. I think once I started talking to grad students, once I started talking to faculty, once I did those summer programs and met other students in the application process, I think that that gives you a lot of clarity. And we're able to tell you that you're doing good things, which I think as someone who I am definitely sort of hard on myself and can be productive at times. It's good to hear that. And sort of Yeah, to get that feedback.

Shania Montufar

But community building is hard, especially, you know, for anyone in a pandemic, I'll tell you that I'm also at like a rural Missouri School where there aren't a ton of folks that are on the same path as me. So that was something that I had to really explicitly sort of email people and say, Can we talk for a bit, you know, having to be really, really hyper intentional about that which is hard, which is really hard. I'd say that and then also giving myself things to do outside of work. It's hard which is really hard. It's snowing outside right now. I'm like working on grad apps, it can be all consuming because you finish classes and you come home and you can work on those until midnight if you if you let yourself.

Shania Montufar

So, yeah, I tried to find things that brought me joy. I really like photography and other things like that. So trying to think of tasks that are not just like academic or not about research, like trying to find something that can kind of give some contrast to that. And then when I come back to my research, I'm like, Oh, this is why I enjoy doing this. So you know, going and doing things outside of that. Because it's really easy to fixate on the graduate application process. I'll tell you right now, waiting for responses is also this whole other beast that I haven't learned yet.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You gotta stay busy so that you don't think about it.

Shania Montufar

Exactly. It's a matter of like, what, okay, what do you like outside of this process, because it can be really all consuming. So it's tough, especially in this part of the year, between like classes, and then it being really sad outside. But yeah, trying to find some contrast. And I guess that depends person to person. But for me, that's, you know, some art stuff, hanging out with people trying to in a safe way.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And you're gonna keep doing that, even as you navigate grad school, too. I think it's so healthy to pick up hobbies and to have a life outside of academia too. Yeah, that's great. All right, well, then, I think that wraps up our episode. We know that folks, we know how they're going to reach you. I'll put it in the show notes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I really appreciate you coming on the show. And sharing time and space with me and, and reconnecting sharing your wisdom as you've navigated this process, because there's so much to learn. I mean, there's so many changes that are going on that continue to happen. And so I just appreciate you and your generosity, kind of sharing your experience. Hopefully, it'll help someone else out there, and hopefully continue to stay in touch.

Shania Montufar

Thank you, Yvette. Well, thank you.