117: Pursuing a Doctorate Degree in Higher Education Leadership with Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome back, everyone to the Grad School Femtoring Podcast. This is Doctora Yvette. And today I have another wonderful guest here, who is going to be talking to us all about pursuing a doctoral degree in higher education leadership. Our guest is Jeannette Sanchez. Palacios, who is a Latina, a full time mom. She's a wife, a council woman, a district director. And she's also pursuing a doctorate degree in higher ed leadership, which is why she's going to be talking about that topic. So welcome to the podcast Jeannette.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you giving me a platform and the time to talk today.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I really excited to have you on because I'm you're very multifaceted ahead. That way. And I feel like a lot of folks, you know, will relate to you in some way, shape or form in terms of like the listeners of the podcast, I would love for you to just get us started telling us a little bit more about you and your backstory, like your background, your personal and professional trajectory.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah, again, thank you for just the opportunity. My background in terms of just personal familial background, I'm the youngest of three children. My mother brought us when we were really young, to the United States. Originally, I'm from Guatemala, and I was four years old when she decided to take that journey and, you know, cross the border and come to the United States in search of that dream, right. And so for me, pursuing education has always been something at the forefront, because my mom who only had up to like a sixth grade education as well as my dad, the only thing that they could tell us about education was, make sure you get good grades, make sure you do well in school, because that's what's going to bring success.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And so throughout my life, that's, again, always been something that I think about often. And so I'm the first to graduate from, you know, college or university, your traditional college or university, my brother graduated from Devry university with an engineering degree. My sister is executive assistant at a community college. And then, you know, here I am, and my education goals, were sort of like the late bloomer education goals, because I didn't go to college straight out of high school. I didn't get my master's degree immediately after I got my bachelor's. And so now, it's been a few years that I've been out of out of school, and I'm pursuing my doctorate. So it's kind of been spaced out. But I think for me, just kind of recognizing the opportunities that public education gave me really have given me the the fuel, if you will, to go after this degree in higher education leadership.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And starting out, I think with just obviously, in high school, I didn't have the tools to be prepared to go on to college right after, I remember seeing my my classmates talking about the SATs and ACTs and getting ready to apply. And I had no idea what those tests are. And I remember sitting with one of my teachers, and she was like, well, let's just apply anyway, let's just take the test anyway. And so she was very encouraging. To just have me go through the application process, which I thought, you know, at the time, you're like, why am I doing this when I don't have the grades, but in retrospect, now, I feel like she helped me just kind of just go through the process anyway, right.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And so I ended up at community college, because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And now that I've, you know, my life took me too into politics. I started connecting the dots, if you will, I started to see how policy impacts education, and how it impacts who gets accepted, and the number of students that get in and don't get in. And so all of that has sort of been a combination of where I'm at now with my dissertation drafting. But, yeah, you know, it's, it's been a, I think, a journey that has shed light on the system that keeps many of us out. And if we don't know With the system, and then we don't know how to work through the system, we will be kept out. And so my goal is to hopefully connect the policy part to that the education part in terms of access, and how can we change policy so that more students can have access to higher education? That's a little bit I don't want to go on too long.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

No, it's, it's great. So that actually prompts me to want to ask you a follow up question about how you even got into politics like, so what led you to getting into politics? And then? And I'll remind you then after that, at what point or was there, was there some sort of catalyst or moment where you realize I think I need a PhD to do what I want to do. So one is how did you get into politics and to like, at what point did you realize wait, I think I need to go into higher ed.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah. So my, my background and career wise, is kind of everywhere. I started out as a, when I was at community college, I wanted to be a theater major.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

A former, I'm a former theater nerd, I really makes my heart light up when you say that.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

I love the arts, I still do. I fully enjoy my daughter kind of has that gene. But then, in school, I recognized that that necessarily was not the route I wanted to take in terms of a career, right? And so then I, I shifted over to women's studies. And that's I was at Santa Monica City College and trying to figure out, you know, I've been here long enough, what do I do to transfer, and I had the credits enough to transfer as a Women's Studies major to UCLA. And so, when I got accepted to UCLA, and I started in my women's studies, you know, education, I came across women in politics, and I had always kind of been interested in just curious, like, who are the politicians? Who votes them in? Why are they there, type of thing. And, and that's kind of how I ended up in politics.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Because shortly after that, I got an internship at a Telemundo actually, and then I would get to interview the the politicians like, I remember interviewing Richard Riordan, and, you know, Antonio, Villaraigosa. And like all these other politicians that, you know, I never really like, thought about. And then shortly after that, I started working for SEIU, which is the largest Service Employees Union. And I'm over here thinking I'm moving away from, you know, the politics and, and broadcasting or whatnot. And I ended up going in deeper, because a union, labor union, that's even more political, there's a lot of policy behind that too.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And that's where my, my political wheel really started going. Because then I was the middle person between my organization and the elected officials who were voting on these contracts for these workers. And then I started working for an assembly member in Santa Barbara and Ventura Counties. I became his district director. And then from that led me to being a district director for who I work for now. So I've been with the state assembly for 11 years. But my time in politics, if you add the other years is almost 20 year span. Never thinking that I was going to run for office or be in office myself, I've always been sort of the, the behind the scenes type of person.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow, that that's incredible. And with so much work experience, I would assume like why would you need to go back to school, or I've seen a lot of folks go back, but they go back and get very specific master's programs, or they're like applied programs with the intention of taking it, applying it and going back to work. And so in your case, you're doing you're doing the work and you're also in a Ph.D. program. So like, how did you come to that decision?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah, and you know, I had always wanted to go back to school. When I got my masters that was maybe like six years ago, six, seven years ago now that I when I got my masters and I always wanted just to kind of and maybe it was part of the whole challenge right? Get the highest you can but in And recognizing the the policy work that I was doing within education because as the District Director, we have different issue areas, if you will, that we all cover, and I cover higher education for my boss. And so anything higher education, policy wise career path wise, I, I tend to be involved in it.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And I started just recognizing again, just how policy the policy that is done in Sacramento, the policy that is done at the federal level, how that trickles down and impacts our local education opportunities for students. And, and not that I needed the the doctorate degree, if you will, but I really wanted to also be able to bring my experience as an immigrant, as a Latina, as a woman in politics into the mix, because I feel the the perspective of a female in these fields is very seldomly heard or put out there. And so for me, it's very important to be able to sort of bring that out and be able to share it. Because one of the very few comments, first comments that I received when I, you know, told my circle of people that I was going after this doctorate degree was, why are you getting it in higher education? Like, doesn't make sense? And, you know, that's not political, like, what are you doing type of thing?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And, and my response was, like, you just don't know how political education really is. And so for me, I think that that was a catalyst that I really wanted to make that connection for people to see why it's important, who we elect, when we elect them, and and what they do and how to hold them accountable. Right. So so that's kind of like what's been pushing me a bit. And I think especially right now, during the pandemic, we see that women, Latinas are the ones who were impacted the most. They let while they were the biggest number in the workforce, they were also the largest number of in population who left work the workforce because of the pandemic. And now we got to figure out, are they going to go back to school? Are they going to get retrained? What's going to happen? And so I think, all of that I'm trying to, like, build into my my research.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow, um, as you're sharing about, about that, I can't help but think of the younger generation is trying to figure out their career. And I think a lot of folks are going to be interested in pursuing a career in politics. And also among the students that I've worked with, who are first gen, I will tell you an overwhelming amount of them. If they could major in education, they weren't they minored in education, because it was their only option. And what they were always interested in, oh, I want to go to grad school in education. It's a really popular area and higher ed in particular.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I would love for you to kind of if you could expand a little bit more on like, what is the field of higher ed leadership in particular, is not just hired, but higher ed leadership? And and then in your case, how does you're getting a degree in higher ed leadership inform what you do? So how does that inform your work? As a council woman? How does it inform your work as a mother? How does it form your work as a researcher?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Right? Yeah. And I think when we consider higher education, often we think about the teacher, often we think about the administrator. And we forget that there's more roles behind that title, right? You have vice presidents, you have chancellor's, you have, you know, associates, and these are all individuals who, at some level or another, have influence over how education is delivered?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, they're major stakeholders. And a lot of times students don't even know who they are, what they do.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Exactly. And so I think part of my journey has been discovering that myself, because when I, when I got into my program, I recognize that I'm the only one in the program with a policy background. There are 16 of us in my cohort. Everyone else has like an administrative position or student outreach position or a teacher position that that's sort of an and I don't have that experience per se. But I have the connection to the policy aspect and how our policies impact their programs. And, and so for me, it was, it was eye opening as well, because I felt like it would be good to have more policy people look at education leadership as a potential, because then you can also connect and make that understanding of how policy really works.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

If I flip it over, and I talk about my policy work, and how we get ideas, on bills and legislative changes, those come from some of the people out in the field, right? Some of the people who are the teachers who are the administrators, and they're saying, Look, this isn't working. You know, my end, just to give you like a quick example, my, my boss worked on a bill called AB 705, which is a remedial reform bill, which is what we were calling in, and essentially, the statistics were saying that Latino, and any student of color where the majority of the students that when they were applying to community colleges, they were being put in remedial courses, because of the status because of the tests we were you we had to take, right.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And so that bill that we worked on, essentially said no more of this placement testing, we're going to take high school GPAs, we're going to take other standardized, whatever, so that we're not just basing it on a placement exam. And that opened the doors to students now who enroll in community college, they don't have to take a standardized placement test, and they can go straight to college credit courses. So to me, you know, we we are informed as policymakers, we are informed by the administrators, by the teachers, by the counselors, but most of the time, it doesn't go the other way around, policymakers don't come in and form the administrators, the teachers on and I feel like that's an important tool that we should inform, because then it can be a much less messy process, if you will.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's really interesting. I'm like, so how might you do that?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

And for me, the way I'm seeing it is, you know, through my dissertation process, you know, we, we often are reminded, you know, your dissertation is not going to change the world, right? But that's always the goal, let's change the world somehow, you know, it's a little bit. And my hope is that, at the end, that if people can understand policy a lot better, and see how it connects it in and it impacts us all at a local level, then to me, that's, that's worth it, right? Because hopefully, then people will be more invested in wanting to know, how do I change something?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Or how to, you know, how is this policy going to change my access to education, which, again, we often don't think about, because we're just trying to enroll we're trying to get through, and we're trying to get done. And, and, you know, being a non traditional student, I didn't have the option to, you know, take a different schedule, right, I had to mold my schedule, to whatever was being offered at the community college or at UCLA. And I would like that, maybe perhaps at 1.1 day, policy will change it to where the institutions are adjusting to the students schedule. You know, we see that a little bit now with night classes and weekend classes and other programs. But that's my hope, right, that one day, the institutions will be actually molding to the student versus the other way around.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I mean, it does seem like that's the direction that we're leading to, especially in light of the pandemic and more online instruction, which also means more asynchronous instruction that provides the options for folks to do their schooling on their own time. But it's, you know, it's it's complicated.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah. And it's a long road. And you know, and that's the other thing that education leadership is not one answer. It's multiple, because we have so many different students. We have so many different institutions. And one of the things in my dissertation is, you know, is really analyzing and look at the master plan for higher education that California has holds as a standard for their higher education goals. And that, that dictates a lot of how our education is provided. So, and again, that's, that's a policy that was implemented many, many years ago and hasn't been looked at hasn't been revised to meet who the students are up today versus the students of when it was created.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

For the folks that are listening, that are interested in following a similar path, you know, if you could go back and do this again, what words of advice would you give them? If they're interested in policy, or they're interested in in higher ed leadership? They're interested in the intersection of the two things. Now, what would you tell them?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

You know, I've always had the outlook of, you know, if it's an opportunity, take it. I often hear students or other people wait for the right time, right? What's not ready yet, or I'm not ready. And the reality is, I have experience that there never is a perfect time. Right. And we hear that, but it doesn't really resonate until we're there. And, and so I have always said, you know, our, our success depends a lot on on what we do ourselves, right. Um, you know, there's times when, you know, we'll choose left versus right, and the outcome will be different.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

But in the end, I truly believe that will be where we need to be. So for me, always been open to opportunities is important. Never thinking that your success has to look exactly how you had it in your mind. Because it, sometimes it won't come out that way, and it's okay. And then I think the other thing is just recognizing that you don't have to do everything all at once, or you don't have to do you know, or that because you didn't do Y somehow, you know, x is not going to be correct. I mean, to me, life has so many chapters, and that's why I think I have so my background is so like, diverse, and you can think that it's crazy. But at the end, everything has really come together and coordinate it. I think as a as a person, you know, in the public figure arena, if you will, I get to bring these to the forefront, I get to bring these issues to the forefront, and I get to have a platform. And I think that's something that I didn't, you know, I never thought I would do.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

But it's because opportunity knocked and I thought about it and it worked out and I said okay, sure, let me give it a shot. But so to me, as long as it's not hurting yourself, it's not hurting others, if it's a great opportunity. Take it like you never know what you're gonna get. And, and for me, that's always that's how I've always treated things. And, you know, and I always say, you know, because my my kids are my kids are older now. But they've they've definitely said, you know, I want to do this and I want to do that and you know, I can't choose and and sometimes you have to choose just for that moment, but it doesn't mean you know, a few years down the line you won't get to choose again. So there's always opportunities, I think.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's great. So the question No, yeah, I mean, it's just any advice is like sometimes it's like, you know, life lessons. It's like what, what ultimately helped you get to the point where you are today? Or if you could go back in time what would you tell yourself? So we're getting close to wrapping up the episode so I wanted to ask if there's anything else you wanted to share and if not, how can folks reach you for the folks that listen resonated with you would like to connect in some way shape or form? How can they reach you?

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah, I am available via you know, email. I if I can give out my email is that?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Whatever you know, sometimes some folks like we'll share like a social handle if they have like a public social media account or their email address if they're open to sharing it.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah, they can find me on social media though. I don't post often about politics or anything. I'm more about food and my pets. And I've actually been thinking like maybe I should, you know, kind of do another social media. But I'm under @drjeannettesanchezpalacios two n's and two t's. They can find me that way as well. You know, I think just kind of thinking about how I ended up here. Again, the the opportunities that came knocking.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

But I think also remembering that you have people out there who want to help. And leaning on folks that are there to help you. I certainly wouldn't have made it out here on my own. There are many, many people who have said, hey, why don't you give this a shot or who supported me in going through the doctorate program, I know my family has been very supportive, I wouldn't be doing half of what I'm doing now. If it wasn't for them, there, they've always been super supportive. And, and sometimes when we don't think we have the support, you certainly have to have that faith in yourself and know that things will work out. They might not look like it at that time in that moment. But keep going and you know, whatever. desire or, or goal you you want to reach, make a plan, you know, do a plan, talk about it out loud, even if it's to yourself, but talk about it, plan it out and then just kind of execute if you will go from there. And people will come who need to come to help you. It will be there but you just have to kind of be the first one to hit the start button.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's amazing what can come out of making a plan and then reminding yourself that things will work out you know, it's it's it's you know, half of the battle is just the mindset part of like, okay, I want to get it done and it's actually possible even if it feels like this big thing.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, I'm in the process right now where it feels like oh my gosh, what am I doing? But you know, gotta remind myself it will work out so.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right so and soon you will be doctora. Yes, well, thank you so much, Jeannette for coming on the podcast for sharing your words of wisdom, your experience, I know that the listeners will gain a lot from it and I just really appreciate you for for sharing your time and space with us.

Jeannette Sanchez-Palacios

No problem and thank you again for the platform and for doing this I congratulate you on on doing your you know thing and putting it out there sharing. Thank you for that.