115: Gap Years, Rejection, and Reapplying to Grad Programs with Adriana Jaramillo

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome everyone to the Grad School Femtoring podcast. This Dra. Yvette, and today I have another wonderful guest who's going to be talking to us all about gap years, rejection and reapplying to grad programs. Our guest is Adriana Jaramillo. She has a 23 year old first generation Chicana college student. She went to Santa Monica Community College and then transferred to UCLA, where she earned a BA in psychology, with minors in Chicanx Studies and Educational Studies. She's currently reapplying to MA programs i educational policy with an emphasis in higher education. She's also interested in student access and success.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Welcome to the podcast, Adriana. All right, Adriana, I would love for you to get us started by sharing a little bit more about yourself, your background, your backstory, your personal professional trajectory, and anything else you want to share with us that will help us get to the topic of today.

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, definitely. As you have very well put, I am 23 years old. I had just graduated from UCLA. I am or I was a former Community College student. I guess most people would consider that non traditional, into higher education, right. But I actually had a lot of great experiences transferring from community college into a four year institution. But yeah, I just kind of wanted to come on here and talk about my experiences in terms of applying to go directly into grad program, not working out. And then kind of what I have been doing during this gap year in order to reapply, and kind of reevaluating- really, do I want to go to grad school? Or is it something that was kind of something everyone else was doing, so I wanted to follow? It's kind of more reflection and being able to reassure myself, and seek out resources and help in order to pursue that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I really appreciate that you mentioned that. Well, one, that you mentioned that you went to a CC and had a fairly great experience. I've heard really wonderful things about SMC, and folks that have transferred from there. So that's great that you've had that experience.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Then also to talk to us about the importance of reflecting, because I know for a lot of us, there is this pressure of like, what are you going to do next? What are you going to do next after you graduate? And sometime- I know in my case, I didn't know what my options were. So it just only made sense to pursue grad school. In having a gap year, in having more time to reflect, you can really determine whether or not that's the path for you. I'd love to hear more about about your path, about your process of taking a gap year and reflecting. What has that involved for you?

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, so actually, when I had graduated from UCLA or was about to, during the application season, I reached out to a couple of potential advisors and professors from other institutions that I was really interested in working with- whether it be through an assistantship, or just kind of doing research on the side. And one of them actually reached out to me during the gap year and they said, hey. I have space. You know, one of my students was unable to be a part of this. If you want to jump on the project, we can do that.

Adriana Jaramillo

And I was really excited, because I know that throughout my undergrad career, I would always reach out to professors and I would either be rejected, or they would not really follow up, or just kind of, you know, I'd be in the dark. They wouldn't reach out. So it was just constantly trying to push for - I want to do research in my gap year. If I don't work, I kind of want to know what it's like to be in academia, kind of get a feel for it, to make sure that it's something I really do want to pursue, and not something that I'm being pushed towards, because of all the talk that I've heard throughout my undergrad career with people trying to go directly into grad school.

Adriana Jaramillo

So I think right now, that's what I have been doing. More on the non- academic side, I've been able to really enjoy spending time with people that I love. I know that you know, in college, it's really difficult to find the time, always being caught up with homework or work. I really do appreciate all the time that I'm receiving with family, and also getting the opportunity to do research alongside some amazing people that I've met along the way.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When you say you're doing research- I know we're still in the middle of the pandemic, which feels like it's an endemic. But I'm curious, what does that look like for you? Are you physically going into a location? Are you doing research remotely? I'm just curious about that part of it too.

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, that's actually a great question. I'm doing everything remotely. In terms of research- I know that's a very broad term. I'm doing more of coding, translating documents, and kind of just sitting in meetings in terms of how projects are going to be developed and funding- and kind of looking more into the introspective aspects of research.

Adriana Jaramillo

Because I know when you hear research, you think it's a lot of reading and writing, and articles and publishing. But there's so much more that goes along with it, and I'm really blessed to have known a lot more of the process. There is a lot more interesting things or really cool things about research that I never would have thought. And without these experiences, I probably would have just gone into grad school setting thinking it's all writing and reading. But it's a lot more than that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You said that you've learned quite a bit from this experience, and I know you shared that you reapplied. So what do you think are some of the things that maybe would have helped you in applying your first time around, that you think will benefit you the second time around?

Adriana Jaramillo

I think just the fact that I didn't really know anyone that went to grad school that was within my own circle. I do know a couple of people through friendships or other close relationships that are in grad school, or are teaching at institutions of higher ed. But in terms of close friends and family, I didn't really know where to start. When I reached out to a couple of people, they just gave me a whole list of things that I didn't even know went into applying grad school, like reaching out to advisors, being able to get letters of recommendation, doing a lot of research in terms of funding, what kinds of research that advisors are doing, and if it's current research or past research.

Adriana Jaramillo

So I kind of just applied on a whim, trying to do all this last minute. I think that's really where it didn't work out, because I was not able to have those resources that maybe others did. I feel like that was a really good learning experience. Although I was bummed out that I was not accepted the first time. I feel like this time around when I did apply, it was more comfortable and I really did feel support from people- as I said, colleagues and scholars and academics in the field.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Great. I'm just gonna quickly mention that you started to slow down a little bit there. But can you hear me okay right now?

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, I can.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Okay, great. If someone were in a similar situation right now- because you're telling me that- you know, for so many of us, if you're trying to apply to grad school and you are a current college student, you already have so much going on. But it does feel like a rush. It does feel like you don't have enough time to prepare. I know plenty of people who are in that same position right now where they maybe applied and were in a rush in the fall, or they're last minute trying to figure out a way to apply to Master's programs right now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

If they are in the position that you were at last year, what kind of words of advice would you give to them? Because I'll tell you from my experience, the advice I usually give to them is that even if they apply now, and they don't feel ready, it's not a waste of time, because it's experience, because they can get feedback, because they can reuse, recycle and refine, strengthen their application.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

But also, if they don't get in, it's an opportunity to strengthen their work and to hopefully get in the second time around and like you said, have that time of reflection, and figure out- do they really want to do this? But I'm curious, from your perspective, from your lived experience, because you just went through it recently, what kind of words of advice would you tell to someone who's closer to up here?

Adriana Jaramillo

I would definitely echo your sentiments. It's not a bad thing to apply. It's definitely a great experience. I know that I used a lot of materials that I applied from last year this year, and just recycling them and rereading them and having others look over them to really kind of see what was I doing then? Then kind of gathering the experiences that I have now, with either research internships, work, and how can I kind of mold it and fix it and fit it into what I want to continue to pursue? That is if I were to get into grad school, right?

Adriana Jaramillo

But I also think that if it's a last minute thing, don't feel rushed to apply. I know that I was blessed enough to get fee waivers. I know it's very expensive to apply, especially nowadays. But just don't feel rushed. I know that there's this narrative, especially in undergraduate institutions that are focused on research, or R1 institutions that kind of push students to go straight into a research path and grad school. But a lot of students- or I wouldn't say a lot- I would say most students don't really want to take that path. But it's the path that they're kind of pushing for students.

Adriana Jaramillo

I really just want to urge people to reflect like, hey, it's okay. You know, I went through a similar process when I was applying in community college. There were certain schools that I got into, others I didn't. Straight out of high school, I did not get into any school. So reapplying in community college, it felt very similar to reapply and kind of getting that feeling of like, okay, well, the first time was definitely a learning experience. But now that I know more, and the knowledge that I've acquired and the support, I feel like I'm able to succeed even more. So I guess to rephrase, yes, you should do it for the experience. But also don't feel pressured to do so if it's not really something you want to pursue, or you don't feel like you're ready to do so.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I completely agree with everything that you said, because it's true. Sometimes you realize that what it is that you're doing might be just due to external pressures, and due to fear of disappointing others. And it takes a lot of kind of listening to yourself and reflection to realize whether or not this is something you're doing for you, or for other people. I think this is something I talk with my own friends and circle of close loved ones. We are all first gen and highly educated, and we realized, we didn't get a lot of options.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

When we were undergrads, it was just this one strict pipeline. There was no, here's the other option of industry. Here's the other option of nonprofit work. Here's the other option of government workt was just like, go straight to grad school research, become a professor and that was it. So I'm really glad that you're mentioning that- just the importance, and also the lesson in rejection. I really want to echo that sentiment of you going to community college and being proud of that and saying, hey, you know what? I didn't get in the first time around, but then I got in the second time around. That's a huge learning lesson for life, because we don't get accepted to everything that we apply to.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And one thing that I've told my friends is no means next. So if someone says no to you, move on to the next thing. And one thing that one of my friends tells me a lot is that rejection is redirection. So if you get rejected, you get redirected to the next thing and the next thing. In your case, you know, rejection is redirection. It redirected you to the gap year, to the time to reflect, the time to spend with loved ones and family, to this really great research opportunity you've had. You wouldn't have had all of that with you going into a grad program if you hadn't had that rejection. You get what I mean?

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I love everything that you're saying. I'm wondering, in terms of just this cycle, is there anything that you're - what are you concerned about? What are you most excited about? Like the pros, cons of this process, doing it the second time around?

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, I think it's really interesting you mentioned that, because the first time around when I applied, I actually applied to only doctoral programs. Then this time around, I only applied to Master's programs.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Oh wow.

Adriana Jaramillo

And the reason why that is, is because I knew from the jump- right after high school- I wanted to do a PhD. But obviously back then I was more psych focused. I wanted to go into clinical psychology. It wasn't until I arrived at UCLA and started taking more education courses that I realized I want to go into higher ed, specifically educational policy. So I had a lot of friends and colleagues say hey. there's a lot of schools that don't have the terminal degree. With your PhD, you can do the Masters- just apply to the PhD. And I had a lot of research experience in psychology, but not so much in education, so I kind of thought, oh, I don't really know if I'm gonna get in and I don't really have a research focus or advisors that I would want to work with at any schools, because I haven't done any of my research at that time.

Adriana Jaramillo

I feel like now that I'm applying to Master's programs, and I have the research experience that I do, a lot of my colleagues and friends are like, why didn't you reapply to the PhD? And I think, looking back for one, it was because I was a little discouraged the first time around. But I think also, I felt like the Master's degree was a perfect path into the PhD, at least for me, only because I felt like with the research experience that I'm currently getting, I can further strengthen that in a Master's.

Adriana Jaramillo

That way, when I do end up at the PhD- I wouldn't say it's easier, but I'd say that it wouldn't be as much work to learn or relearn the things that I already do now. I feel like that's definitely an advantage for me. Obviously, it's not speaking to the experiences of everyone else. But I feel like that was a good thing to note that, hey, I applied to PhD programs only, now masterss only. But it's okay to apply to both. You don't have to limit yourself to one or the other.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, sometimes it's not even just Master's or PhD, but rather, where are the folks that you want to work with? Or what programs are the best fit for you? And sometimes it might be a Master's, sometimes it's a PhD. Sometimes it's a combination of both- you get the Master's along the way. I actually was a little surprised. I was like, wow, you went from only PhDs to now only Master's? Then we'll see what comes from this process. I'm sure it's gonna be a really big kind of learning lesson for you. What do you hope to do with your Master's degree? Like, what are your long term goals? I'd love to hear more about about that, too.

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, so I actually spoke to the professor that I'm currently working with. And he asked me the same thing. He's like, hey, so I know you eventually want to do the PhD. But once you have your Master's, what do you plan on doing? You want to go directly into the PhD? And I told him, I actually want to get some work experience afterwards. Some of my research experience and interests are women of color in higher ed, specifically how they impact men of color programs. I got really interested in that topic, and I think after my Master's, I'd probably want to work at either a community college or an institution of higher ed that do have programs that are geared toward both women of color and men of color.

Adriana Jaramillo

I think this was a passion of mine for a while, because when I started working at the community college, I was actually a femtor for young middle school girls. And just having that experience and talking to them, and then going to UCLA and being a peer mentor for community college students, it made me feel like I think this is the line of work that I'd want to do as I approached my Master's degree. But I eventually do want to do more research, once I go to the PhD, within these areas of research, particularly because I know that for first gen, students of color, a lot of these programs, they help us and it makes us feel like we're not alone, especially when we're pursuing higher ed in institutions that are predominantly white. So yeah, hopefully that's what I end up doing after I receive my Master's.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I do think that once you complete your Master's degree, if you're able to land that job at the CC level and figure out what it is that you really want to do within there, if and when you do decide to go back for the PhD, it will ground you to have that work experience. Because sometimes in grad school, especially in PhD programs, you can get a little lost. It can take four, six, eight- sometimes even longer- years to finish. And it can be hard to sustain motivation or remember the reason why you started to begin with.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I do want to push more towards telling folks to try to have some, or to open themselves up to gaining some work experience. I know that's something I wish I had had prior to starting my PhD programs, is more work experience- again, to ground me, to remind me that there is a life outside of academia, and that the work that I do matters You know, it helps to combat even feelings of imposter syndrome, because you're like, no, I know that I can do X, Y and Z. I know that I have a certain skill set. I know that I'm needed here.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I really like that. I really appreciate you coming here to share about your experience thus far, and also your vision, your goals, and I know you're gonna make a big impact. We need more folks at the CC level. I mean, that's one of the things I'm like, dang. I wish I would have - and I still have the opportunity to work at the CC level, because there's just a lot of really good work there. A lot of really amazing students, and I don't think we're pushing that opportunity enough, especially at the R1 institutions, especially institutions like UCLA. I didn't often feel like I was encouraged to pursue a career at a community college. So that's great. Do you have any other words of advice that you'd like to share with students who are on kind of similar journeys as you?

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, I would definitely say, don't feel like there's a set timeline. I know a lot of people, especially students- both traditional and non traditional - feel like there's a specific timeline in which you have to finish things or have to achieve things. But I just want to let you know, it is not a race. It's a marathon. Or what's the saying? It's not a race, it's a marathon, right?

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Right, yeah.

Adriana Jaramillo

Go at your own pace. I know, me being 23, most people say that's not really considered a non traditional student. But I would say that I'm a non traditional student, because I went directly to the community college, and then I went to my undergrad institution and taking some time off and then pursuing a graduate degree. Do not feel like the way that I just mentioned, my trajectory, is going to be equal to yours. Everyone's trajectory is different.

Adriana Jaramillo

But what matters is that you're doing what you want to do. You're doing what you love. Whether you want to make an impact in the community, or do something else along along the lines of that, I really highly encourage it. But please reach out to people. I know, that that was one of my biggest mistakes. I felt like I could do it by myself, but I could not. People are willing to help you, especially people within the community that are really passionate about their work. If they see that you're passionate about your work, they will definitely help you out. There's a lot of dope people in academia, so I highly recommend reaching out to those people as well.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's great. That's really, really great advice. If folks listen to you and resonated with what you said, want to connect in some way, shape or form, is there a way that they can reach you?

Adriana Jaramillo

Yeah, through my email. It's AdrianaJaramillo48@gmail.com. I also have an Instagram. I am kind of on there to do academic things. It's @ay.its.jay and then I have an academic Twitter as well.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Nice.

Adriana Jaramillo

It's A_Jarami110, but the L L O is actually a 110.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Okay, I will ask you for them via email and I will add them to the show notes.

Adriana Jaramillo

Sounds good.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's great. I just want to thank you for spending some time out of your very busy schedule to be with us, to share your message with the listeners. I know there's going to be several people who are going to be feeling like they're on the same boat as you- either they're applying for the first time, or they're reapplying. Your message and words of advice are going to be uplifting. So thank you so much.

Adriana Jaramillo

Likewise. I really appreciate you inviting me on the show. I'm a huge fan. I love your instagram page, and I hope that we get to reconnect soon about some research things. But other than that, thank you so much. I really do appreciate it.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you.