107: Being a Chicana PhD Lecturer: On the Margins but With a Whole Heart with Dr. Diane Nevarez

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

All right. Welcome, everyone. We have another podcast episode another guest. I'm excited today because I have someone here joining us to talk about what it's like being a Chicana PhD lecturer on the margins but with a whole heart. And our guest is Dr. Diane Nevarez. And now I'm like, I forgot to ask you if that if I'm pronouncing your last name, right? Perfect. Nevarez. Because I keep wanting I, earlier today. I was like, is it Nevarez or Nevarez then I was like, no it's Nevarez. And I told myself, let me ask her before we record but se me olvido.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Thank you.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'm gonna go ahead and start with your bio. So Dr. Diane Nevarez's ancestors are Mixtec from Oaxaca and Puebla, Mexico. She was born and raised in Southern California, where her mom encouraged her to use her voice, even when it got her in trouble. Dr. Diane recently uprooted her family and is raising two young children get Sally is I will in the Central Valley where her partner at Fudo is a tenured professor at CSU Stanislaus. Thanks to student activists who came before her she had the opportunity to receive formal schooling at CSU Long Beach, and USC. Oh, my reaction, that's the bruin in me. Sometimes I'm transparent. Okay, welcome to the podcast, Dra. Diane.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate being here. I appreciate you and everything you've been doing.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. So I'm really happy for you to come in and, and to come on the show. And to chat a little bit more about your experience being a PhD, PhD lecturer. I know that kind of I mentioned your article on the Times where he talked about your experience with that. And I, I would love just for the listeners to kind of hear more about you. So if you could just say a little bit more about your background backstory, your educational trajectory?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah, I mean, I've been reflecting on it so much. And actually, that piece in the LA Times came out of a tearful typing session where I just was letting it out and writing about what I went through my dreams and my goals, it's very emotional for me. So even now, I feel some tears kind of welling up. But I have to say that such a big part of it is that I am still kind of mourning. I don't know if I'm there yet, but maybe mourning the loss of the dream I had, and trying to envision a different dream for myself or a different future. And I know you've kind of been talking about that. And that's so important that you've been, you know, addressing that, that there are other possibilities for us, and even seeing what you and Chicana Motherwork, how you have created different spaces, which I'm still in a place where I'm, I'm not even talking about my background, I just realized, you

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

It's important though, I really appreciate you being so I'm honest about the difficulties and the challenges of sometimes being a little bit disillusioned. You know, I think I have said like, sometimes it feels like there's there can be a failed promise with academia, like you're trained to do a certain thing, and then it doesn't happen. And that is a grieving process. I've been dealing with the grieving process myself, too. And, but also, I think there's also a lot of possibilities and a lot of hope. And so yeah, I mean, I know we went off on I, I, yeah, it's I would. Yeah, I don't know. I would love to hear just a little bit more about like, how you got to where you are today.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Thank you. Yeah, so I mean, I think it always actually goes back to my mom and her journey and her stories and her being to me, she would have been an amazing Chicana professor, but you know, she didn't have the opportunity that she didn't get to go to college. And speaking of USC, while she was in her 20s She was working at USC and raising, you know, my brother, she was a really young mom, she was a teenage mom. And so that's so connected to me because she was at USC with among college students and grads and PhD students and she was working though she wasn't able to live that life they had and just study and learn and like she admired it so much.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

And she you know what, the way she talks about it now like so, like romanticized and so beautiful. Oh, to be a college student, right. I feel like she always internalized it like feeling like she just wasn't smart enough, like it was something she did wrong. So getting into USC for me I'm gonna get through this. It was like getting it back, they taking it back. Right? And, um, and then I think a lot of us have that story. So that's what that was. But so yes, my mom's story really is what is what propelled me and like just not even just my mom but connecting it to like all Chicanitas and Chicanitos who were pushed out along the way, seeing that she got all pipeline image, you know and seem like, only you know what point five of us or something like not even a whole person gets into, into PhD programs. And so feeling like I wanted to take up that fight.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

And that's what brought me into a Ph. D. program was like, the coraje rooted in love that it wasn't that I love studying. Like, I'm, it wasn't always a great student, not an honor student. It was more just that passion and that drive to like, why are we getting pushed out? Like, that's not right, we have to leave others we have to bring others in, or I'm going to, if I can do it, I'm gonna get in, right. And so that's what really drove me and you know, to make change and like this love for our community that but um, I guess what I was so focused on was getting in, and I didn't really know anything beyond that.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

It was like saying, I'm gonna go to the moon. Like, I'm gonna get a PhD, I'm going to the moon, like, I don't know what that means or how to be an astronaut. But, you know, so that was it. And so at that time, when I see like, going through your program and looking at what you like, what how you femtor, and I'm like, wow, like the younger me could have really used this this type of support, because I had no idea. And so even even when I was in the program, then it was like surviving each day. Yeah, I'm just got to survive each day. And I couldn't even envision graduating because it was, yeah, it was very traumatic. And so to try to get a job like what I'm just trying to make it through today, right.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, I mean, that's one of the reasons why I decided to just start the podcast was my frustration, with the lack of information and just feeling like why didn't anybody tell me? Why didn't anybody warn me? Why? Like, why did I have to get to this point, and come this far, only to realize that the grass wasn't always greener. And I and I understand too, that sometimes, you know, from my listeners, they might not be ready to hear some of these things, right, because I have put out episodes that are more difficult topics, like the one I put out on, you know, you're being told a lie and thinking about career options outside of academia.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And then I had another one with another guest who talked about what it was like for her to retire from student affairs and take a career a career break altogether. And I know, you know, there's a lot of folks that are contemplating debating, and it's just interesting to turn on the back end from like, my analytics, or the statistics and stuff, seeing what posts get the most likes, and what posts get the least likes, but the most impressions, like, a lot of people are like, listening to these things, but not liking and I think that is just, it's hard.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Even like the work I know, you, you know about me and my work through Chicana Motherwork too. I have, you know, one of my friends and like us, you know, she recently shared one of our articles on the experiences of being Chicana mothers in academia. And, you know, we share our testimonials and they're, they're a difficulty, you know, like you said, there's trauma, and the students just like, not knowing how to react or not knowing how to respond, because it's that thing of I was that student to you get to college and gents, this dream. Yes. And then you like now once you get to college, to grad school, it's his dream now, and then you finish your PhD.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And there's that post graduation, blues and like, now what, and the next thing is, and it's always just this rat across a rat race of like, you never really get to like, look back and reflect and take time. And so I think it's really meaningful for you to be here. And hopefully, if you're comfortable to tell us kind of like where you are in your journey, because not everybody got to read the article that you wrote, and maybe you can kind of, you know, refresh us a little bit on what you shared there. And then if you're comfortable, like, let us know, kind of what you're up to now, you know, sure. Perfect,

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Thanks. So my article was about I teaching so as soon as I graduated my Ph. D. program, I was grateful to at least get something you know, I had a new baby and I Got a job teaching at UC Irvine. So there there's one swing right there. Like what I'm teaching at a UC, I've never even been here. The only time I was on campus was, I was a student athlete in college. And so I would run on the track, right? That's the only time I would visit these different universities. So to actually be in the classroom was incredible.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

But you know, as soon as so I taught that first, I taught in the Masters and teaching program. And as soon as I taught, I taught that first quarter, and then they didn't hire me again after that. And that was like, that was hard, right? Because I thought I did so well. And you know, I am, oh, my god, the heart we put into our work, like, you can't even you can't even quantify it. But um, I got a couple bad reviews from some white students. And, and I encouraged BIPOC students to create their own critical community, because that's how we survive these spaces. I mean, that's one thing I learned, right, we create a community that and that's what brings us through. And so they did the creative space, and they were reading articles together and like doing great things.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

But the program guessed that I was divisive. So I mean, I'm putting it all out there. So I certainly didn't hire me back. But I'm actually a couple quarters later. Thank goodness, the undergraduate program picked me up. And so I was teaching in the undergraduate program, but that's how it is right? Like you're there. And like, do you have classes the next quarter? Who knows? Did I have health insurance? I did not. I was on government assistance. And that's how I was able to even get health insurance for my, my child, I had one child at the time. And that, like what you had said, in the last, in the podcast, where you address this, I was taking notes about how, you know, you're living with our parents, yes, who can take us in, right? So I was teaching these graduate classes or undergraduate classes. And you know, we can't afford rent anywhere, you have to make two, three times the rent in order to live somewhere like...

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I was just saying that, like, I didn't know your situation, but imagining myself in, in that position.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yes, exactly. And so my partner was in a Ph. D. Program, also at UC Riverside. And here I was at my PhD, and, um, I mean, some of the good just laugh at it, like, we have all these degrees. And like, we can't even afford to live anywhere. Like what like, how did we, like you said this dream, right? You think it's just you get the degrees and then you get a house? And then it just, you know, magically happens. But yeah, so I was teaching at UC Irvine. And what was amazing though, was I really, I did build, like, I built something there. And so then I, they had me teach the huge diversity course, which no one else wanted to teach. And I loved it. I mean, it was it became my jam. Like, I've just loved it so much. I mean, I've brought students in from like, our international students didn't from other fields, like, we're all about education now. And so it was great until I ended up getting an award for teaching.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

And so that was a weird moment, because it was like, thank you so much for this award for teaching. But will I have a job next quarter. And that's the space you're in where it's like, it's, you're filled with love and joy, and like, Oh, my God, to have these amazing, amazing students who inspire you every day in their stories, all it, nothing is more, I can't think of anything more rewarding. I'm just like, This is heaven right here. Except I don't have health insurance. And I have to pay for parking when I come on campus. And I don't have an office for us to talk and students crying to me after class, and we're in the parking lot talking. And they want to do research with me. And they're first generation students, and I love them, I want to give them the word, you know, support them as much as I can. And then I know, I feel like a failure because I don't do research. I don't have a research grants. I'm not in those meetings. I'm not a tenured faculty. So that's where I start to feel like I failed them,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Or did the system fail you? Right?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Exactly. And so I have to keep trying to remind myself, that that's how it's set up. I mean, when we see the data, right, the median income for lectures is 19 to $20,000. Many of us Yes, are don't have health insurance. And you know, we're the working poor, and it's like, but we're there in the classrooms, representing the University in the mission of diversity and, you know, trying to, you know, lift each other up and hold each other up. And at the same time, like the way I tell my students that I don't have a job next quarter, like do I tell them that I feel like I failed. And then when they asked me about applying to a Ph. D program, I don't I want to support them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, that's a big one. Actually, you're talking about, you know, when students ask you if they should apply to a Ph. D program. I never like to say yes, or no, because I think it's a very kind of individual and personal decision and their circumstances vary widely, and that will impact their decision, but I don't want to just say yes, you should, like, you know, that's like improve that pipeline and this and this and that, because now I have that perspective of before I would get angry and think, no, I'm gonna be one of the few. And now I think, well, I was one of the few that got the PhD, but I was one of many that got pushed out. So that's why I didn't go the tenure track route. I tried to go the alternative, academic, whatever you want to call it route. Even that was, that's the thing is like, you know, it's hard enough as a as an adjunct professor.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And then it's, it's sad that even if when you have job a, quote, unquote, good job with benefits with the, you know, decent salary, or when you get that tenure track job, or you get tenure, I'm still hearing from folks saying that it's still too much, you know, still, because there's so few folks who there are so few tenure lines, so few folks who are able to get those jobs that those few that do get it are over extended, and then for the staff, and there's huge problem with staff shortages, in universities nationwide, because people are leaving. I'm one of them. I'm one of the people that left and I know I have said I was like, I don't want this episode to just be negative, I want it to be positive.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Because, you know, you did share that that's the thing when people ask me also like, oh, how can you talk about all the negative things and then still support people as they navigate grad school. And for me, it's always like, I will never regret getting my PhD, I will never regret it. And I will never regret the relationship that I built when I taught mentor if I'm trying to advise, you know, all students. And that's what I hear from you, I hear this strong sense of passion and joy in working with these events. Yeah. And, and for, like, in your situation, I don't know you that well. But I feel like what I want from you is for you to be able to think about what are the things about academia, about getting your PhD about your job as a lecturer? What are the things that you really, really enjoyed? And how can you replicate that in a different setting.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So for me, the way that I have chosen to do it is replicating it by going this entrepreneurial route, which has been very uncomfortable. And I'm still learning and I'm still in the middle of it, I'm still trying to figure it out. But that's, that's, that's what I'm trying to do. I've got a friend trying to go the creative writing route. I've got friends who, you know, are still adjunct thing, but then have their side hustles. There's just like, figuring out, you know, what are the things that work for me? And how can I replicate it in a in a setting that is kind of, you know, that works for you?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah, yeah. And so well, actually, I am going to try one more time. I'm gonna because I didn't have any publications. So I my CV was wacky. So now I'm going to actually try to, to apply one more time and see how it goes. And if not, yeah, I, I have a teaching credential to teach high school. So like, that's an options. I just, I'm trying to think about my options. Currently, I'm, I'm a lecturer at Cal State Stanislaus is trying to get classes. Yeah.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That one thing that I also that you mentioned in your bio, that I was hoping you could share a little bit more about is the fact that you are a Chicana, mother's scholar, you're a mom, you have two kids, like, that's a big part of your identity, aside from being you know, a lecturer, aside from being an incredible teacher, you've got these two, you know, probably probably beautiful kids.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And so, would you care to share more about how that kind of has impacted your academic journey to and you know, with becoming a mom, because that was huge for me, I can imagine that it's probably a big factor influencing your academic trajectory.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Oh, for sure. I mean, from the very beginning, when being pregnant as a PhD student. And just before I before even deciding to be a mother, I had, I had already had it set that I wasn't going to ever be a mom, because I just received the messages that you can't do that in academia. And when I started to realize that academia was, you know, I can't I can't just, you know, I had to resist that that narrative and I had to, I could be a beautiful thing to be a mom, so I had to let go of that. And yes, I mean, I had my first my daughter gets it when I was a PhD student and that was one I would say good thing was I had time to raise her to be with her. I've nursed her for three years.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Wow, that's a huge thing in and of itself.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah. So I was there, you know, with her. And so I think that was a beautiful part of it that I was able to be there with her. I've been there with my children and I have raised them. So I mean, partly I couldn't afford childcare. And so that makes it challenging because how am I going to publish if I don't have childcare? Right? And I'm just exhausted, you know, the day from mothering. So yeah, but but at the same time, I was able to be there with my children.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You describing, you know, that time that no one ever can can give you back at that time that you were able to spend with your children, that is priceless. You're reminding me of the silver linings, there's always a silver lining in any kind of circumstance that your circumstances situation. And clearly, there's also a silver lining for you in continuing to do this work in academia. I mean, you're gonna give it a try another time. And so I'm wondering if you could share a little bit more about, you know, perhaps, we know, what are some of the other Silver Linings that you find in, in your journey in kind of your hopes and dreams for your future? Within or perhaps outside of academia? Or possibly, you know, silver linings? Or kind of what advice you would give to...

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

... someone because I'm like you, you said it earlier, you know, if I had had this before this information, you know, I think some things might have worked out a little bit differently to

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah, let me write this down. So I stay on task here.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Silver linings or advice for yea, you know, a younger scholar.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

think color one, one of my big pieces of advice was I didn't ever want to bother anyone, and like, I'm still kind of like that. So when people talk about asking for help, you know, that has always been really hard. So asking for help, and asking students who are in programs and asking professors and getting to know the programs because for me, it was like, I'm gonna go into whatever program accepts me. And then someone else reframed it as like, No, you're accepting the program, you're choosing the program. And it was like, how was that? No, but Right. So I never thought that we. And I think what was really what I've seen that is so important is finding an advisor who's going to support you.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Again, I had no idea what an advisor even was to even know to find an advisors and to support you. But I just see such big differences for like, my partner was pushed out of one program. And then he tried again, and he had a totally different experience with an advisor, who was a femme Torre, who wrote and published with him, was really trying to get him that job after set him up, you know, totally insulting makes me feel like hopeful. There are people like that, who really do want to guide us through and right, who really can help us get through.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Whereas, you know, somewhere like at USC in my program, it was, yeah, I mean, if you're not in there fighting, not fighting, but like if I think I already said this, if you're not like, you know, John, whose dad already published with him, because he has a PhD, then sorry, like, we don't, we're not here to just guide and mentor you like Too bad you got you gotta go. So that's just totally so cutthroat so different. And I just, I had no idea. So I guess that's my advice is like, there is hope, because there are still beautiful, wonderful people in academia, who are authentically there to care and to support.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, even though I am no longer in academia, in my feed, like my social media, I am friends with a lot of academics and a lot of fierce, you know, Chicana woman of color academics, mother, scholar, academics like, and I'm reminded, I'm like, if they're still doing this work, you know, that, that, that there's a lot of really good people out there, including actually, my former supervisor, as I was on my way out of my job, I realized, wow, because I had a very toxic advisor in grad school, I had a really good undergrad mentor. And then in grad school, very toxic, just not not a good experience, but having a supervisor who was like a mentor to me, who would advocate for me and would say my name, you know, in places where I wasn't, that was really meaningful to me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So it just reminded me that there's actually good people out there systemically there are a lot of issues with academia and it's important to be aware of them and aware of them early on and plan you know, plan accordingly but um, I can see why why folks stay you know, there's there's that it's, it's that community factor That's a factor of having that support. That sometimes it's not as easy to find, because I found myself a little lost when I left academia the first time I graduate in 2016. So the first time i i left was when I decided not to do the tenure track. And I felt lost. Because I was like, Wait, where are my mentors? Are there no mentors in like, the real world? You know that non-academic world?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Exactly. Yeah. And then also, you had talked about sharing the silver lining. And for me, it's like, yes, having this PhD gives us access to different spaces. I mean, I having the opportunity to even publish something in the LA Times and have my story shared, is because of my decree, and my experiences, right? Things that like my parents, they might have suffered and gone through, you know, and the hard work they did, and the hard labor they did, and like, no one was listening to them, right. Their stories weren't shared, their stories weren't valued or uplifted.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

And so yeah, it definitely gives us access and in a different way. And I, you know, try to use it in in good ways, if, right, whatever ways that you can, and I mean, I guess the last thing is just again, to reiterate, the time I've had with my students is just like, my cup is overflowing, like having in these classroom experiences learning with them. Oh, my God, like, it just fills me with just so much love and so much joy that I just, I would be in the classroom and just be like, I can die happy. Like, that's it like, this is just too good. Right? And yes, so there's all this other stuff, he is not having a job and like, I would like to have a house, right, all that good stuff. You deserve to have a house,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

to have amazing students, and, you know, a good paying job. And benefits.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's true, but but it has been beautiful. And I've been super grateful.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know, the other thing that you talking about your students is, that's not going to go anywhere, you know, if you stay if you leave, I found myself I continue to be in touch with my former students, and they still send me messages, whether it's on email, social media, sometimes I'll have check in meetings with them. And it's just so it continues to be fulfilling when I have days when I feel down. And I know that I have a meeting coming up with someone, you know, instantly, I feel better just by connecting with them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So that's the power. That's the power of, you know, making connections and building relationships and having a community in academia. So I can't stress that enough. When folks say like, how did you get through it? It's like, building community. It's creating the spaces that aren't there and then getting through it together. Because you don't can't do it alone. Yeah. Exactly. Well, any last thoughts? I think this is a good time to get ready to like wrap up about you know anything about your experience being a lecturer what you wish you knew, with regard to that, and yeah, just any, any last thoughts on that from that? And how can others reach you?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Okay, well, I guess my last thoughts is just wonderful to have seen that this week. You know, our union, I, that's and so grateful for our union.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yes, I saw that, too. That said the strike is no longer happening. Because you see agreed to meeting kind of what was asked, right?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yes, so parental leave for four weeks. There.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Which is not a lot to ask for.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

I know, I know. But yeah, huge for us. And then, right. And then fair compensation for workload, and then a raise and like more stability, because I was a pre sixth lecture. So I wasn't there for six years. So I didn't have that stuff. I mean, I really Yeah. Yeah, pre sixth lecture. I mean, I'm still like learning everything. I was still figuring it out. But after your six, after you're teaching for six years, you there's more stability. And more. Yeah, so before that, it's words very, you're very fine. Finding the words right now. precarious. Three. And from one chord to the next. It's like too bad. So that's where after

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

The six years, that's when people start to get security of employment?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Try to get a bit more stability. Yeah. And again, like I said, I'm still trying to figure out every all of that, but so so more stability and more. It just, it's just such a huge victory, because they've been fighting for it for two years. And really, for them to say this is the best contract they've had for UC lectures ever. So I just feel like there is hope and there's always people fighting and like I love having my union having their support was wonderful, you know, because as I lecture, it's very isolating. I didn't know anybody, any of the professors. And so going to the meetings and finding other lectures, oh my God, it was just wonderful. Such a great community that I was so grateful.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's amazing. And, you know, that's the reason why we're here even in nearby who said thanks to student activists, I was able to get my education and it's without that without the movement without us participating without us voicing, you know, our needs like this wouldn't have happened. So I'm glad that there's at least that so again, you know, it's an indicator of, of there's hope and whether you want to do the work inside academia, outside academia, it's you know, things are possible with with enough momentum and with enough support,

Dra. Diane Nevarez

you know, we're always there fighting and doing great things.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

All right, well, it was really nice to have you on the podcast if anybody heard this episode and just resonated with what you said maybe wanted to reach out and be in touch. Is there a way that they can reach you?

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Yeah, so let's see my Instagram is I think it's the Doctora_Nevarez and that's a good place or also my law. I don't even know my email. It's my stan state email here at Cal State today and as long as you can look me up.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's fine. IG is fine. The other thing is can I please do a quick earring shout out is that okay? Oh my gosh, sure. thing. Is that too much? So these earrings isn't for whoever's watching because still be on YouTube. These beautiful doctora earrings. This beautiful doctora made them you are so talented. Can I just say I love the earrings that I got. I'm probably gonna get myself more you are an artist.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Thank you I appreciate that so much.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And how can if someone likes the earrings and if they want to get themselves a pair is there is it okay for sure.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Oh, please. Yes, that's a chicana_di_aretes. It's like Chicana underscore di underscore aretes on Instagram.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'll put it up on the show notes. Well, thank you. Thank you. Again, it's really meaningful to have you here.

Dra. Diane Nevarez

Thank you. I appreciate you so much.