104: Getting Into Grad School as a Transfer Student with Maritza Geronimo and Miriam Santana

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

All right. Welcome, everyone. I am really excited. I have another set of really amazing guests who are coming on the show today to talk to us all about getting into grad school as a transfer student and the importance of mentoring. I have not one but two guests today. And I'm gonna go ahead and get started the way I usually do by reading their bios.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

We'll get started with Maritza. Maritza Geronimo, they them, is an Nahuatl Chicanx from Guerrero Mexico, who grew up in Anaheim, California and they are a PhD student in the UCLA Department of Geography studying indigenous food autonomy in Los Angeles. They also form a part of community spaces including Chicana Tiahui Media Collective, Eagle Condor, Liberation Front ECLF and Sexta Grietas del Norte. Maritza is also a gardener, herbalist and filmmaker. Yes.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Next up is Miriam. Miriam Santana, she her, is a first year grad student at UT Austin in the Department of English. She attended UCLA for undergrad majoring in English and was a McNair Scholar as well as an English departmental honors scholar. Miriam was born in Mexico, but grew up in California where she has spent most of her life. She is a parent, a new plant mom, and has recently taken upcycling as a hobby. Welcome to the podcast. Maritza and Miriam.

Maritza Geronimo

Thank you for having us, of course.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So I would love for you all to get us started. By telling us a little bit more about yourself. I know that the bios there, they're contained, they only share so much. So if you can say a little bit more about yourself, your background, your trajectories. And then after that I would love if you could just let us know about your mentor mentee relationship, how that got started to. So whoever would like to get started, the mic is up and open.

Maritza Geronimo

Um, yeah, I'm happy to start. Hi, everyone, this is Maritza and I am really grateful to be here. I think the when Miriam reached out, I was like, I'm down. I'm down to do it. But it would be awesome if we could be on this together. Because I think our trajectories are definitely different. And we'll be sharing a little bit about that, but also intersected in like really important ways that I feel shaped, you know, my trajectory to grad school. And yeah, so I, I went to community college, out of out of high school. Really, I do say a lot of times Community College, like saved my life, because I feel like it was a space that I finally felt like, okay, this is what education is supposed to feel like. I'm supposed to feel like folks, you know, want me to do good and are supportive.

Maritza Geronimo

And that's not everyone's experience, I'm sure in community college, but it definitely was mine. And I felt really like intellectually stimulated, I was forming community of other like, non traditional students, especially. So it was really a good place for me to go. And that's also, you know, where I learned about, like, the possibility of transferring, and so I transferred to UCLA in 2016 I think and you know, that's, that was like a totally big shift again, in my life where I didn't know what I was doing. I kind of just applied AI and I wasn't really sure if I would get in or anything but with the help of other like academic services, like AAP, which is a witch the which is the oh my gosh, now I'm blanking on the acronmy

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Academic advancement program. That's okay. We got'chu!

Maritza Geronimo

My UCLA fam here. Yes, AAP does a transfer summer program at UCLA and it was there that I actually had met some of my mentors, which you know, are really were really pivotal in my life, which were all my like PLF switch our peer learning facilitators during this summer program. They essentially guide you kind of like TA's you know, and help you both with the work of of you doing now like UCLA level coursework, but also like emotionally. So that was like a really important part for me.

Maritza Geronimo

And so you know, it's also the first place where I met I think my first grad student of color, Silvia, who is now a doctor, which is pretty awesome. But at the time, she was a grad student in the Chicana Chicano Studies Department. And it was, it really meant a lot for me to see somebody, like myself from a similar background, be in this like grad program, which, again, at the time, I didn't know what that meant. We could probably talk about that more later. But it was it was TSP was definitely really significant for me, and was a really big reason why I was able to do well at UCLA as an undergrad. And I think I'll leave it there for now.

Maritza Geronimo

Because, you know, Miriam, and I also meet a year later, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, in the same summer program, but then the roles were kind of reversed because I loved my PLF so much that I ended up going back to be a PLF during the summer transfer program, again, because I love working with transfer students, it's a very different experience. And yeah, so TSP, and AAP really helped shape my experience, and was also one of the places where I got to meet Miriam. So yeah, I'll hand it over to Miriam

Miriam Santana

Thank you, Maritza. And I, as I'm hearing you share your your, your experience in navigating Community College and UCLA and kind of thinking awareness, my story start, and I can start all the way back. But I think what I didn't share in my bio was the I am 32. And my age for me is really important because I after high school wanted to pursue higher education, but at the time was undocumented. And it was in 2007, when I graduated. And there's a lot of fear at the time for me in sharing that I was undocumented. And so what that meant was that I didn't meet with counselors, I didn't share my interest in higher education with any of my teachers. And even mobility was for me difficult because I couldn't ask my parents to drive me to these LSAT workshops, one because of funding, I didn't have the money for it.

Miriam Santana

And two, I didn't want to ask my parents to spend money on on that, because I knew that finances were already tight. And then three, I knew that driving posed a huge risk, because my parents didn't have a California driver's license at the time. So I was I was 15 in high school already hyper aware of the limitations that my at the time undocumented status had. And then I also found that my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer during high school. And for me, at the time being undocumented, it just didn't make sense for me to continue pursuing school, when I saw that half of our family's income was lost.

Miriam Santana

And so I after high school decided to work, and I worked two jobs for quite a while until fast forward, I am pregnant, and I find that my life completely shifts my priorities shift. I'm 22. And I am thinking now about the future in ways that I never was before. And that's when I make the decision to pursue Community College. And at the age of 22, I was already able to access my legal status. And so for me, I thought as an ode to my family and what they've done, it wouldn't make sense for me not to pursue School, where now I was able to access financial aid in ways that I wasn't before.

Miriam Santana

And so I start Community College, and I take a course in Chicano Chicano Studies, only because I was too nervous to meet with a counselor. And so I just downloaded the course listings and circled with a pencil, the only course that I thought could be of interest to me, and it was the best decision I could have made. But I think that looking back now I just, I just realized how much I didn't know and how, okay, that was because of mentorship.

Miriam Santana

So I walk into this class and I see for the first time ever, a professor who looks like me and a professor who was speaking Spanish and a Chicana Chicano Studies course. And so I kind of sit in the back and quiet. I feel hyper visible because I can clearly tell that I was one of the older ones in the classroom. And so very timid, just kind of kept to myself. And I took my midterm and I read and I studied, and it was the professor who actually asked me to meet with him during office hours. I didn't even know how office hours worked. And so he asked me to meet with him during office hours. And he said, You did a fantastic job. And I want to ask you about your whether you're interested in transferring.

Miriam Santana

And so he was the one that started that conversation and continued, took it upon himself to advise me and I at the time, so hungry for mentorship, because I had never experienced that in high school, in a way that I now realized was just a bit strange, obsessively felt myself attached to this professor, because I was so hungry for answers to questions that I never felt comfortable to ask anyone else. And so I attended office hours, often. And at my community college, they offered opportunities for transfer student for community college students to visit UCLA, and participate in this kind of mentor mentee relationship with current UCLA, undergraduate students from community college as well.

Miriam Santana

And so that was my first experience with mentorship. And it was very much informed by that Professor guiding me and telling me, it's important for you to build community, it's important for you to occupy these spaces, even if you feel scared, even if you don't know what's going on. And I remember the first time I visited UCLA campus for this event, and I didn't even I was, I didn't even know how to get to UCLA I didn't. The physical space of UCLA was so intimidating to the point that when I drove up that hill, that UCLA Hill, I seriously contemplated turning back, and I called my sister, and she said, no, you're, you're gonna go there, you ask for the day off, so you're going, and so I missed work to go to that event.

Miriam Santana

And it was life changing, because that's when similar to what Maritza is saying, I had the opportunity to meet people. At a large scale, there was so many people of color, so many more heads, there were children who were attending that event. And I just thought I didn't even know I can bring my son here. And, and so that, to me was my first I think, contact with mentorship at that kind of scale. And similar to Maritza, when I applied to transfer, and I was admitted to UCLA, that same professor also encouraged me to seek resources that UCLA was offering.

Miriam Santana

And that's when I applied to the transfer summer program, which serves, I think, for me as a kind of bridging between the academic transition from community college to UCLA, not in the sense that community college didn't prepare me. But in the sense at a community college, I didn't have exposure to research in the way that UCLA offers an exposure to research. And so it was in that summer program in an English course, that I meet Maritza and I meet Maritza, as our peer learning facilitator. And very much in the same way that I kind of cling on to that professor and community college, I did the same thing with Maritza.

Miriam Santana

And now looking at it, I realize how selfish that was on my part, because my pizza was often showing up early, meeting with me working around my schedule to offer guidance and mentorship. And out of that mudita encouraged me to also apply then the following year to work as a peer learning facilitator to kind of have the opportunity to be in that position that mudita was and it wasn't until that point that I realized how emotionally lavoris it can be sometimes to mentor and I think that experience and now me being in a position where I was able to offer support and resources and mentorship that I realized how important that relationship is.

Miriam Santana

And so I applied thanks to Maritza to the McNair Scholars Program to the Mellon program. And I started reaching out to other graduate students to other people who had experience with research at UCLA, and did the same thing that I did with my data and a professor in a weird way, I kind of clinged on and just trusted everything that they told me I wasn't critical and in any way at the time, because I I just wanted guidance.

Miriam Santana

And so I think for me, it helped that I there so that I was coming into this experience this mentorship relationship with so much openness. And it continued and it still continues now we're now I'm a first year graduate student in the Department of English. And I take a very similar approach not in the way that I cling on. I learned a lot from that. But in the sense that I understand the importance of mentorship and me receiving it but also me doing the work of also offering it in the best way that I can. And that's why I really wanted to come today to share my experience and hope that it can help someone in any way. I think that that's where I'll leave off.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I just want to like give a little aside too that I didn't do TSP. I did FSP when I was in undergrad, but I taught as the English instructor for TSP a few years while I was a grad student, and absolutely loved it. So I'm not surprised that there's this connection of TSP, and getting support from the amazing pls in that program. I know I couldn't have done what I did like without the support of my PLF, too. So anyway, shout out, shout out to them.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So, now I'm curious, like, I would love to hear more about about your, I don't even know what you call it. I want to call it a birth storie, about how you two came together. I guess it is a kind of birth story. And then yeah, I want to hear about you how you two came together. And hopefully that can transition us into talking a little bit more about, you know, the importance of the unique experience of getting into grad school as a transfer student, because that's their very different kind of obstacles that that you have to face when you are a transfer student, and you're trying to go to grad school, especially if you're going straight in it feels like you have no time. So okay, let's have you all tell us a little bit more. How did you two meet?

Maritza Geronimo

Yeah, I think hearing Miriam reflect kind of brought me back into that moment. And it took some maneuvering, and I think like the universe to to bring us to that moment, because originally, I wasn't supposed to PLF for that class. So that other this other PLF was like, Hey, would you mind switching classes with me, because I actually want to work with this other professor for you know, his own networks and stuff. And I was like, yeah, like, I don't care. I don't know, any of these people, I just, you know, I just want to be here, I want to do this work and and so I get assigned to the English class. And I was so excited to be able to work for English, you work with students one on one.

Maritza Geronimo

And so it is a little bit more. Like, it turns out to be a lot more like emotionally emotional labor on one part, because you know, when you're one on one with students, like they tend to open up not just about, I'm struggling with writing, but it's like, oh, I'm struggling with the dynamics, I miss my family. My roommate situation can be rough, and all of the many, you know, different challenges of being new to a campus.

Maritza Geronimo

So I experienced a lot of deep relationship making that summer. And I remember every single person from my class, it was a really great group of students and some things that were also a little bit traumatic. But, you know, I think that also helped kind of bond some students more over the summer. And so yeah, one of the students that I got to meet was Miriam, who was, you know, really, like, I just, I remember you, Miriam being very nervous about like, you know, your, your abilities, and like, being at the UC and what that meant, but then in the classroom, and then your writing, I would see like, somebody so amazing.

Maritza Geronimo

And I was like, dang, like, I wish they could see from my eyes, right? And I think that that's kind of, how I view mentorship is like, how do we get to see each other and become like, these reflections of each other because I definitely didn't feel you know, equipped when I when I transferred. I felt very much similarly. Imposter Syndrome very strong. And because I've, you know, first gen come from like, the poor, working class community and so I felt all of those things and then to see Miriam feel similarly, but also then shine like to me in the classroom. I was like, okay, like, there's a lot that I want to share with this person.

Maritza Geronimo

And, you know, you said that you're, you were clinging on to me, but I also was like, I wouldn't when someone wants to commit and do that work of trusting, right, you mentioned trust, and I really resonated with that because I was like, dang, like, You trusted me. And I also trusted you like it's just really reciprocal process because I was like, okay, like Miriam wants to take the time to sit with me to learn about grad school like, you know, for some and transfers, they're not there yet, like, because they're not thinking about that future goal. They're just thinking about, you know, the very present.

Maritza Geronimo

But with you, you were like, oh, I want to do research or maybe I don't know if I want to do research and I was like, so excited to talk about that, because it takes a lot of commitment to, to do this grad school. And like, the, you know, the trajectory to get there, which we'll talk about in a bit, but it is a very, like, intensive process. And just from the moment that I met you, you had so many questions, and I was like, Cool. Like, you know, someone really wants to take this on. And I was really fortunate to have had, you know, two really good friends the year before. Gustavo, Natalia, which I think you you know, Yvette.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, Gus and Nati.

Maritza Geronimo

They guided me and really spent that time with me and showed me how to be a mentor, honestly, like, and so I wanted to keep passing that on. And so yeah, I was so excited to meet Marissa. And it was cool to, you know, be also learning from you, because I learned so much from you, Miriam. Like, and I you know, that summer was a lot for for TSP is really intensive. But then as our years went on, just like being able to get coffee and just see each other on campus, in you know, a place that is really predominantly white. It was just nice to, to see you. So I think, yeah, I'm just thinking about, about those things right now. I don't know how you remember.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

I'll let you Miriam, share a little bit more about what you remember. And then I also would love to hear more about like, at what point do you realize that this is a mentor mentee relationship? Because you had a lot of students? mudita? So I mean, they could have all been coming to you with the same kind of like, you know, persistence and, and hunger that I'm sure Miriam had. So yeah, what's, what's your side of the story? What's your take, Miriam?

Miriam Santana

I mean, it goes a lot of what buddy sites is saying, and but I think what I what I took from that is that I knew from the beginning, I think, for me coming in, Maritza felt a little strange when I would think of her as my mentor or femtor. Because I think because of the age and so I remember, she always made it a point, or Maritza always made it a point to tell me, No, you know, this is a dialogue. And we're just because I've been here at UCLA longer doesn't mean there's an existing hierarchy.

Miriam Santana

And I rejected Maritza saying that, because I knew that my needs, I had so much knowledge and experience at UCLA, that for me, it wasn't a feeling of inferiority. But for me, it was a feeling of respect of this person has gone through, and these experiences know so much, and is going out of their way to share some of that with me. And I think that, for me is so important and why I'm so committed to sharing my experience so openly is because that doesn't always exist in academia. You know, there are moments in which I've been encouraged to keep information, because I might be competing with this person for that program.

Miriam Santana

And I think that's why mentorship is so important, because the professor at community college is still my one of my biggest mentors. And I remember that, you know, it's really important, I think, to understand where you stand in relation to that, how that relationship is going to work. And so for months, I was always approaching it from from a stance of respect, and always wanting to also honor honor Maritza's time, and none of this was compensated. So at the moment, I knew it really turned into like this mentor mentee relationship was when I shared that I was interested in pursuing research up just because I wanted to give it a shot, not really thinking I could even get into any of these programs.

Miriam Santana

And especially when I find that, you know, there's such a small cohort that gets admitted or selected to these programs. And I thought, I don't even know how you do research in English. My only understanding of research is people in a lab coat. That's that was my extent of knowledge. And so none of that translated. And I remember my community college professor said, Well, you know, you'd might not have the financial means to compensate my data for the time, but after the course and this is something that you want to put into practice moving forward with any relationship you build, is you you come in from a place of gratitude and a place of respect for their time.

Miriam Santana

And so I remember I didn't have them I need to offer a compensate my data for the time. And so I remember, I asked if I can if I can cheat my pizza to a coffee. And I remember we met for coffee. And I showed up with my notebook and my questions, my agenda. And that's another thing too is one way I think that you can show the person who's offering mentorship, a way of like respecting their time is to come in with an agenda. I've always done that. And it's the best thing I think that I've found. separates.

Miriam Santana

I think how you're perceived sometimes is that you're coming in with with a plan with questions, even if you don't know exactly what the plan is just coming up with questions, come up with a plan, because what you don't want to happen is that sometimes it'll turn into a two hour discussion. But it's a two hour discussion that could have probably been 30 minutes. And now, you know, this person who's offering their time, is now backed up with their own schedule.

Miriam Santana

And we know that women of color, in general, are sometimes just very busy and limited in time. And so for me, it was very important to always come in with an agenda. And I think that's the moment I realized that it was it was that even today, even today, I know the word friends and or Thai, I still have so much honor so much respect for my data. And I still see my pizza as as my like, advisor, like unofficial academic advisor. And when I applied to graduate school, I sent my my draft of my statement of purpose to Maritza. Because even though I had support from professors at UCLA, this was my imposter syndrome working, I was too nervous to show any of my drafts to my professors, because I worried that in them reading my drafts, they would then realize, Oh, my perception of Miriam is actually inaccurate, she's actually not as smart as as I thought she was.

Miriam Santana

And so I remember sending my drafts my ugly drafts, to muddied sign to other people first, before I had to go to, to my advisors. And that was just my strategy in terms of mentorship. But I also now realize that it's actually really important to send your ugly drafts, to professors. And of course, professors who you feel comfortable with. And that's something maybe we can talk about more in terms of mentorship relationship with professors who might be writing your letters of recommendation, or professors who you are hoping to become your advisors at programs you're you're considering applying to.

Maritza Geronimo

I just want to add kind of like to answer your question, too, with, you know, when did you know this was a mentor mentee relationship, and what you know, something Miriam was talking about is that in academia, we're often taught to like gatekeeper knowledge. And, and I was like, I can't do that. Like, my brain is physically exploding from so much so many things that other people have shared with me. And I need to tell somebody, you know, like, and so that's kind of like, I feel like I do. try my best to always invite people, okay, like, if you do want to, you know, do talk about grad school, or talk about McNair or Mellon and the process of applying, I did my best to put it out there for everybody.

Maritza Geronimo

But not everybody is in that mindset yet, or is in like, you know, the right place to do that kind of work? Yeah. And so, there was definitely a few folks that that did reach out. But, yeah, I think Miriam was honestly the most consistent person like who could have following up and who was also no, it's not like that I was selective, but I was also like, Yeah, I had a lot of things to do that year. And I was like, This person is someone that I see one like, is going to do amazing, like I already knew like, and I was so excited to work with Miriam's like project ideas. And so yeah, I think, you know, that relationship started really like with me and following up.

Maritza Geronimo

And I always would tell Miriam, I'm like, please, like, it's not a bother, like, just message me a couple of times, because I forget, I was like, I am the most forgetful person. And I'll say please just like be Be persistent. And you know, she did that. And so because you know, of that also, I really appreciated the follow up and being able to build this relationship friendship, and at one point, we also work together, TSP as colleagues. So and now we're in grad school together. Yeah. So I was really thinking about that, too. When when we, when you reached out about this Miriam I was like, How does our mentor mentee relationship evolved to? And maybe that's like a future question.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

That's a topic in and of itself of the relationship evolving, because over time, maybe it starts off as student and, and PLF or professor or TA, and then it becomes mentor mentee. And then at some point, it becomes friends. And, and more, you know, like, platonic soulmates, whatever you want to call it. So anyway, sorry, I just got excited there and kind of went off on a tangent A little bit. But yeah, I thought interesting to hear about that. Because I, I've always wondered, as an introvert how other people have found mentors and mentors, because I struggled so hard with that when I was an undergrad, I was not persistent, I always felt like I was wasting people's time.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And maybe it was because I wasn't a transfer student. And the transfer students that I have had the privilege to work with, have been hungry and don't want to waste their time. You know, they, they, they know what they want to do. And they go after it. And they're not afraid of asking questions. And maybe it's also part of being non traditional. And feeling like, you know, hey, I, I need to ask these questions to learn what other people already know, that are half my age. But, yeah, so I would love to just hear a little bit more about the transfer experience. You know, that's, that's one of the ways that both of you can relate. And, you know, there's, there are transfer students listening to the podcasts now. And they're kind of struggling to seek, you know, and find mentors and mentors, maybe they're interested in grad school, you know, what is what does that process like? What kind of, you know, advice do you have for them?,

Miriam Santana

I've been thinking a lot about the topic of getting into graduate school, specifically as a transfer. And I think for me, the the mentorship I received in community college was instrumental. And I did attend community college right after high school only took one course. So I have something to compare. At that time, I didn't have any mentorship, I was just navigating Community College, not even meeting with a counselor not knowing I even failed a class because I didn't realize that you have to drop a class.

Miriam Santana

Also, I remember that professor at community college who asked me Okay, so are you applying to transfer? And I remember in my mind thinking, Yes, I'm going to apply. And then he said, okay, because the application is due in the next couple of months. And I remember thinking, Oh, no, but I don't want to go to I don't want to transfer until next year. And he said, You don't know that you have to apply to transfer a whole year before. That to me, I would have I could say I felt embarrassed, but I didn't because I felt safe. But that's to the that's the extent of knowledge I had about the transfer process. And so I think that when thinking about getting into graduate school as a transfer, there's the experience of being in community college.

Miriam Santana

But there are opportunities, I think, depending on the community college you go to, or, for example, just this podcast as a form of mentorship. And so for example, if you're listening to this, and you're not going to UCLA, and you're thinking, Well, my college doesn't offer research resources, or UCLA is not a university that I'm actually going to be applying to how can I tap in to mentorship if I'm not in the spaces, and I think that for me, a form of mentorship was this podcast. And it still is, because I remember being told, oh, it's important to reach out to faculty in the department you want to apply to? I thought, yeah, okay, but how, how do I do this, I remember sitting down on my couch and knowing that I had to, quote unquote, like reach out to faculty at these programs.

Miriam Santana

And instead, I decided to just get on YouTube because I was kind of paralyzed because I didn't even feel confident in writing an email to these professors. And so then sure enough, it was just like the universe knew when to bring in your episode on a template on how to reach out to faculty. And I remember there were times where I didn't even want to work on my graduate applications. It just, I just didn't feel it. I didn't feel and Maritza knows, this is something that I've struggled with and I still do and it in despite, you know, getting into McNair and I've shared this with Maritza and you but I applied to 12 programs, and I was admitted to 11 and when I say that, so many people you know congratulate me and it's it's wow. That's so amazing.

Miriam Santana

And I thought, Well, surely once I attain all of these achievements and accolades, the imposter syndrome is going to go away. And now, years later, I realized, actually, it hasn't gone away, because now I have all of these achievements on my let's say, CV or resume, and it actually further intimidates me. Because now I have to really keep up with making sure that I am as smart as my CV says I am. And so that's that's to say that, for me, the imposter syndrome hasn't gone away.

Miriam Santana

But the way I've been able to navigate to stay in academia in a way that hasn't been detrimental to my health. That's not to say I didn't have hiccups and challenges. But it's always been in meeting and building relationships with people that I trust, who I can come to and say, I don't know what I'm doing, I feel like I want to quit. Or I remember there were times where I didn't want to work on my graduate applications. And I thought, well, if I, if I take a nap, I'm not going to be able to nap because the entire time, I'm going to be thinking about all the things on my to do list I have to do.

Miriam Santana

So I have to find something that I'm able to do that makes me feel productive, and makes me feel like I'm chipping away at this grad app. And so what I would do is I would clean or sometimes my son was, he'd be on his phone, and I was folding laundry. And I thought, well, I'll feel productive if I listened to Dr. Yvette's episode. And then I would listen to the episode. And then I walk away from the episode say, okay, let me just get 20 minutes of just writing just freewrite. No, stakes are low, just get it out there. And then I start writing and then I immediately get into this kind of mode. And it I think, for me, your podcast was instrumental in helping me stay with with it, because there's so many moments where I didn't want to work on it. And I think your podcasts really helped by listening to other people's experiences and how they navigate. Health is huge, exercising, I remember that I think is Moxi, Moximara, there's someone you had,

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah, Mara, Mara Lopez, Doctora Mara Lopez who just depended her dissertation, sorry, I just have to shout her out, because felicidades to her.

Unknown Speaker

I remember that podcast, there are certain podcasts that really resonate with me. And that's part of the reason why I also got into pursuing cycling, because I didn't think about my health. So much of it was, oh, the hustle, the hustle, the hustle. And I completely lost focus on my own health, my own mental health as well. And so I think that in terms of thinking about getting into grad school was go as a transfer. There's so many things I can list of like, oh, this could be your to do list, because this was my to do list. And so we can talk about that. But I think that's also like who do you feel comfortable enough to share your to do list to?

Miriam Santana

Who do you trust enough to the point where you know that that advice they're giving you is well intended, as well, because I did receive advice when I was applying to these graduate programs, and was encouraged to keep certain information and I'll share this really quick story is that I was applying to Berkeley, and friend suggest that mentioned that they were also interested in applying and and they were going to apply to a different program. And I said you know what, based on what you've researched, it sounds like you would do really well in English.

Miriam Santana

And this friend said, Well, why are you telling me English, that's the program you're applying to surely we're going to be competing against each other. And in my gut, a fear started. And I remember I reached out to the professor from community college and I said, I know this is wrong. And yet I'm feeling this way. And the professor sat with me and met with me and said, look, it's not about you two being in competition with each other. It's about it's a win no matter who gets in.

Miriam Santana

And I think that was the moment I shared everything. I even introduced this person to my advisor. And we exchanged materials. I think the sign for me was when we both applied, and we both received news that we were both admitted to Berkeley. And I thought what are the chances of two people from UCLA from the same department transfer students getting in to super competitive program, it can't be a coincidence, it can't be a mistake. And from then on, I realized, I'm going to share my story and my resources and any access that I have with anyone because I think it's important that all of us have access to getting in.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

You know what, that is so valuable and so true. And you you actually never really know because I have a very similar story. Being a grad student, having a writing partner from my writing group. We were both humanities PhD students applying to the Ford dissertation fellowship, helping each other out of the kindness of our own heart and friendship, and then applying not thinking oh, like I'm in competition with her. She's in competition with me.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

And then guess what? We both freaking got the Ford. And we're like, what are the odds like, you know, two humanities PhD students at UCLA getting it the same year, and it was just like, that's if we, if I had had that competitor mentality, I would have hid my drafts from her. And vice versa, we wouldn't have helped each other out, and maybe we wouldn't have gotten them. So sorry, does that to have that aside because you just reminded me of that. And it's so true, there's there can be a lot of competition in grad school. And, quite frankly, I don't think it serves us, especially as students of color, especially as like, you know, if you're non traditional, the more underrepresented, the more oppressed, etc, you are, like, you gotta help each other out instead of like, tearing ourselves down.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Yeah. But I like to share a little bit more Maritza too about, you know, what has been like, kind of navigating, getting into grad school and being in grad school? As someone who was a transfer student?

Maritza Geronimo

Yeah, y'all are definitely. You know, I'm realizing like the, at least the circles that I've been able to learn from and surround myself with. Everyone is in this like, practice of sharing. Like they've made that really clear and that commitment to, to our communities, even if they don't know us, like. So yeah, I've always seen folks help each other through those cycles of applying to grad school, doing funding apps together. And like, then they usually, like, majority of their group gets into grad school or gets the funding. So it's, there's definitely something there that I don't think folks have all folks have tapped into, but within like these circles, people of color in grad school.

Maritza Geronimo

Yeah, that practice is really, really foundational. And I keep doing it, right. Like, unfortunately, one thing to know is that once you start this path, like it's an ongoing process of applying to things, and so this feeling, right, like of imposter syndrome, can keep coming up during those times for sure. But I did think like, you know, as a transfer student and undergrad, I did feel like a certain drive that I had both motivated by the university's timeline that that's imposed on us, as transfer students were only allowed to really be there for two years. And within those two years, somehow figured out what is grad school, what do I want to research and what is research and then reaching out to professor's right. And so that's really hard to do in two years.

Maritza Geronimo

And so honestly, like, mentorship is what helped me figure out like, the, the tricks, and what to do the movie thus, as a lot of Chicanos have taught me, right? Is, is the movie this that I needed to do. And one of those was to stay an extra year as a transfer student. And so this is also something that I am very, very happy to share with folks listening right, as a transfer student, advocate for yourself. And if you can, try to stay that third year, because it was, for me, the game changer, like it is, honestly, the reason why I am in grad school, because I was able to slow down, you know, and not feel rushed, to take to finish my classes to take that whole extra year that I that I stayed to slowly apply to grad school, because you do have to apply when you're in advanced, as Miriam mentioned. So I was able to take that year to really focus on my grad apps, and not feel overwhelmed. And so that was something that I recommend. And I think I even recommend it to you, Miriam, you stayed at third year, right?

Miriam Santana

I stayed a third year because of and there's so much pressure, I mean that the thing about sometimes applying and getting into research programs, or even the kind of environment that at the time UCLA was presenting was that you have to and they always say this, like hit the ground running. And I'll never forget that. And I remember thinking, Oh, that actually imposes so much pressure on me. And then I remember another one of my PLF said, I don't like it when people say that because we've been our entire life. We've been hitting the ground running. And so when my peer learning facilitator told me that it just completely re reoriented me to think about well, this is the journey and timeline that UCLA culture environment is giving me the If this is not my timeline, it's not my timeline, I was very nervous about taking a gap year and like not being at UCLA because I know myself enough to know that if I, I stopped working, I can lose motivation, I could lose my momentum.

Miriam Santana

And so for me, it was important to take the advice that mudita shared and thinking it is okay. So have your timeline and to ask yourself, why are you making like what is what are the external voices that are informing your decision. And this is also something that I took to heart when making the decision of what program I'm going to actually go to. And I had the awesome experience of having multiple choices. But also with having those multiple choices meant, I need to take seriously every single choice and as a parent, as a daughter. And you know, for me, everyone thought, well, the safe choices is USC because you don't have to move or shift anything and your family. And I have a partner and I have a family. And why would you even consider going to Berkeley or to Illinois or to Texas. And yet that was actually the decision I made is no, I'm actually going to go to the house not because of the pressure of as an academic, you need to be mobile.

Miriam Santana

But for me, it was a decision that just felt right for me, the program, the funding, the support, the people, the mentorship, all of those things checked out. That's not to say that it's a perfect situation. But that's to say that, I think that taking that third year was instrumental because I knew in my gut, if I apply the year before just to apply or to satisfy what other people were encouraging me to, I just didn't feel right. And for me, it was important to go at my pace. And that's hard. Because as someone that's 32 years old, there's pressure I've imposed on myself, where I realized, well, if I'm going to finish this program in six years, I'm going to be 38 by the time I get my PhD, and that, to me comes with a lot of fear.

Miriam Santana

But now I'm learning to realize, well, you know, God willing, I arrive at 38, I'm going to arrive there no matter what, like I'm eventually going to get there. What is it? Where do I want to be at that age? You know, and I think that, for me, age has been a challenge age being a parent in academia, and navigating also the kind of cultural expectations on my end of Why are you breaking up the family? Why are you separating and making so much ruckus when you have the option of USC. And so that's something we could also talk about, but I'll go ahead and leave it at that for now.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Just to add one more thing about that topic of like staying an extra year, because it's advice that I would often give to transfer students as well is email. If if you are coming to me, Miriam saying Oh, my goodness, but I am X years old, and I don't have time. I remember sometimes telling telling students like, you might actually be saving time and money by staying an extra year. Why? Because staying an extra year allows you to gain the experience necessary to be able to apply to competitive programs to go straight into a PhD program, instead of having to get a master's degree first, get a bunch of loans to complete that master's degree, then take two extra years to get it and then start all over with a PhD.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

So all of a sudden, you're you know, six figures in debt, two years kind of have passed, and you're just starting the PhD. This is assuming you want to get a PhD. But it's so interesting to hear, from your perspective, kind of like the lived experience of like the the benefits of getting of staying an extra year because I know it's often discouraged. But that was something that I would see time and time again was so like you said it, it's a game changer for folks, because I agree it's it's not sustainable to tell students to come in and hit the ground running. That's just, that's not okay.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Like, there's only so much that you can do in the two years. And really, it's one year if you're a transfer student, if you're applying to grad school while you're still a student. So no one year for me, it's just like, there's only so much you can do. We're getting close to time. So I want to just ask you all one last question. If there's any other things you wanted to share a takeaway final message. And also along with that, folks resonate with what you said want to connect in some way, shape or form. How can they be in touch? Any final words, and if not, then how can folks reach out to you? Yeah,

Maritza Geronimo

I mean, I think just one last thought that I really was sitting with is I know that there's some research out there because I saw this article out in the world. You know, that talks about transfers to Students actually going to grad school more than freshmen who come straight from high school. Right. And so there's, there's clearly like, this, this pipeline, I don't know, there's probably a better word for that. But there's this promise of a lot of folks transfer folks going to grad school and I saw this with a lot of TSP, students even going to get their Ma's, like, most of the folks that I went to tsp with, went on to get their Ma's are in PhD programs.

Maritza Geronimo

And so it's really cool to see that kind of community that we have created, that supports each other in this process, so yeah, I wanted to just leave that message with folks, you know, if you're a transfer student, that is currently in community college, or that is already in undergrad at a, at a UC or Cal State, or wherever you are, um, you know, I know that that we do have a really big presence in grad school, I could definitely be better, and we could be more visible, but we're there. And then the second thing I wanted to say was that Miriam and I are both in traditionally, and historically white departments and fields. And so that is, in itself a whole other conversation of what that feels like. Because, again, like as a transfer student, you know, I always saw myself as like, like, I was cool, like, I have this community, I have this potential and this drive.

Maritza Geronimo

And then my first year of my, I think it was my first year of the program. It was really funny. I'm in geography at UCLA. I'm in a master's PhD program. So I just wrapped up my masters pretty much. So I'm going on to the PhD part now. And it was a real trip for me, because that first year when one of the professor's tenured professors says, a comment about undergrads that I'm TAing. And she says, a comment about the undergrad, that is a transfer. And she's like, oh, like transfer is always right. Like, like, you can tell that they're transfers because of the way that they write. And I was like, really interesting that you say that, because I'm a transfer student. Right? And right away, she flips and she's like, oh, I would have never thought you were a transfer student based on your writing. And I was like, What the heck, like.

Maritza Geronimo

I was like, my whole time and undergrad, had not really experienced these kinds of comments, because I was surrounded by a community that that appreciated and cared for transfer students, students of color, right, and all of a sudden, I'm thrown into a white department and my whole world changes. And so that's a story for another time, but I wanted to share that because unfortunately, we will still be stigmatized in, you know, higher ed and in grad school, and, but we also learn, like, you know, to combat that, and I, you know, reached out to my community and, and talk through that, but I wanted to share those two things, because those are some of the realities of being a grad student, that's also transfer. But yeah, other than that, you can definitely reach out to me through my email, which is mgeronimo1@ucla.edu. You can also find me on the grad student website on geography, my email is there, or on Twitter, Academic Twitter is pretty fun. So you can follow me there too.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Thank you, Maritza. And what about you, Miriam.

Miriam Santana

I think I have a whole long list, but I won't get into it, I think the one of the biggest takeaways would just be or advice I could give is that I journaled every, almost every day, at least once a week, because for me, it was important to have a mini archive of this experience because I knew I'm gonna give grad school a shot and I want to I want to be able to look back and see what my what what Miriam was thinking about the day that she had to submit the very last application, or, you know, what was her like, process like mental process when finding that one of her advisors told her to hold on to this information, and I'll share it with others and so I thought I would always be referencing it back.

Miriam Santana

But now I'm gonna go I'm about to complete my first semester of graduate school and I still haven't opened the journal because there's so much pain within that journal, that I haven't felt the courage to open up and make available to myself yet. And that's another thing too, is that for anyone in the process right now of applying to graduate school. I didn't realize how I was so busy that I didn't even allow myself time to process these emotions, I thought, I don't even have time to process any of this, because I have these things that I need to do. And so one of the things I would encourage is journal and write down your ideas, write down your thoughts, and, and if you can try to give yourself some time to process these things. Because now from the you know, from these months that have passed, it's a much to go on almost on a year, there's so much advice, I would give two that Miriam and one of the biggest thing is just be gentle with yourself, you know, there's so much pressure that I put on myself that I was holding on to that I remember the day I submitted my very last I know, the day I committed to the program I committed, that's a whole nother story.

Miriam Santana

But 24 hours before I committed to the program, I committed to I had already announced to everyone in my family that I was actually going to this other program. And so there's a whole long story there. But I didn't, I didn't realize how much of that was just so within me restricted that day I committed to the program, I actually shaved my head, I shaved all my hair off. And I realized that it was it was an act that at the time for me was a pivotal point because I thought it was going to be meat Miriam's having a mental breakdown. And instead, as I was shaving my head, I realized, gosh, this is so liberating, I felt like I was just releasing so much that I didn't allow myself to release.

Miriam Santana

So in terms of advice, I would say, if you can document your experience, even if it means recording yourself, and having that video isn't isn't an archive of YouTube. So I think, you know, just so you can either go back to it, or know that you have access to those experiences. And another thing too, is get started. I know that sometimes it can feel so paralyzing not to get the idea. Of course, there's so much I have to do. But I would say if if you feel paralyzed and you haven't gotten started, or you feel like you're not at the point where you want to be, I would say one of the best things you could do is just start listening to these podcasts, start listening to to them enough to the point of giving yourself small tasks. Because if you think about it as a big picture, it is overwhelming. Even now thinking about me getting a PhD is overwhelming.

Miriam Santana

So I've learned to kind of break it down into into parts. And also that mentorship varies. So for example, mudita, I come to mudita for certain things. But there are also other people who are parents who I can relate with, in that sense, who I reach out to. So I would say don't feel pressured to have a finite adviser who's going to be the end all be all, because I have a huge community of people that I reach out to. And it's great if you do have that one person that is the end all be all, but don't feel pressured to find that person necessarily because you will find mentorship in an academic spaces, but even outside of academic spaces, too. So yeah, I'll leave it at that.

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

Like that applies in all of our relationships too. Like, you know, it's like there's no one person that does everything for you gotta find, we need community, we don't just need self care. We need community care. That's actually you know, something that I was reminded by another, you know, friend of mine, who recently is going to come on the podcast soon to talk about her experience being undocumented and then becoming the director of Undocumented Students Center then retiring from student affairs at 33. And so on. So, anyway, thank you. Oh, Miriam, did you say how folks can connect you? I just realized, Wait, did you share that?

Miriam Santana

My email is msantana@utexas.edu. And feel free to reach out. I know that, you know, for anyone that has any questions, if any of this resonated with you, please don't worry about how you structure that email what you say it can just be. Hey, I heard you on the podcast. I have questions, period. Respectfully X. And I'd be more than happy to share my experience with any one

Dra. Yvette Martinez-Vu

of our folks. So who gets to watch this on YouTube? Shout out to the short haired folks. The three of us rockin our short hair. All right, y'all. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.